The Cardiff Times

THE BUTE DOCK BILL. .4, THE PROCEEDINGS IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. THE EVIDENCE OF SHIP- OWNERS. THE LABOUR CLAUSES. OPPOSITION OF THE FREIGHTERS. EVIDENCE FOR THE PRO- MOTERS. THE TESTIMONY OF SHIP CAPTAINS. COAL TRIMMERS AND COAL TRIMMING. THE PRESENT SYSTEM AT THE DOCKS. HOUSE or COMMONS, Monday Afternoon.—To- day the committee of the House of Commons, with Sir H. Selwin-Ibbetson as chairman, Sir J. Eardle-y Wilmot, Lord Edmund Fitzmaurice, and Mr Ralli, resumed consideration of the Bute Dock Bill. The counsel were the same as on Thursday. M. E. H. Capper was recalled and cross- examined by Mr Matthews for the colliery pro- prietors. Mr Matthews; About the committee of ship- owners of which you spoke on the last occasion tile committee sat. Were you on. the committee ? Witness; Yes. Mr Matthews: Did the committee consist only of managers of steam vessels ? Witness: It consisted of myself, Mr T. R. Thompson, Mr John Fry, Mr J. R. Christie) aaid MrTtromas Watson. They are all managing; ship- owneM. Mr Matthews Did not Mr Fisner complain that he had no invitation to be present ? Witness: He jokingly told me that he had had Do invitation. Mr Matthews It was. a joke, was it? Witness: Certainly. Aad. I asked him if he was a managing shipowner, and he said*" God forbid! (Laughter.) Mr Matthews What was added to the bill to Satisfy the shipowners ? Witness: The words added to the clauses eable us to use our own crews. Mr Matthews For everything? Witness: Yes, for everything; for all the work hthedoeks. We have got the control of the vessel in our own hands. Mr Matthews Anything else? Witness: We got what we wanted as far as the labour clauses are concerned. Mr Matthews Did you approve of the dock of 1874 ? Witness: Yes, but I took no active part re- garding it. Mr Matthews Have you compared the two •cbemes? Witness: Yes. Mr Matthews: Did that dock afford as much accommodation as the one now proposed ? Witness: I think not. The sides of the present dock are straight. The sides of the one proposed by the 1874 scheme were sloping, and this makes a great deal of difference. Mr Matthews: About the bunker ooah In what proportion do ships supply themselves with tmnker coal ? Witness: The charterer supplies four times* I fhould say, to the shipowner's once. The colliery proprietors trim the coal themselves. Mr Matthews Do you know Mr Payne, who the secretary of the committee of trimmers and I labourers opposing this bill ? Don't you know that ? Witness: I have seez his. name m the news- papers, with honorary secretary after it. J Mr Matthews You never inquired, did you ? Witness: No. Mr Matthews: The tipping of bunker coal is necessarily a slow process U compared with the .eargo? Witness: In the majority of instances it is a longer process than the trimming of a. cargo. Mr Matthews: Do you buy a very inferior sort Of coal for bunker coal ? Witness: I am not a colliery owner. In answer to further questions by Mr Mat- thews, Witness said that every managing shipowner in Cardiff was invited to the meeting at which the bill was discussed, and there were about 25 pre- sent. As far as he knew, the system of trimming and loading prevailing at Cardiff existed at only One other place, and that was Newport. He could Bot explain how the system grew up at Cardiff. Despatch money, he went on, explaining some evidence given on Friday, was paid for saving hours stipulated for in the loading of the cargo. The object was that colliery proprietors might get toore money out of the shipowners. You have had a discussion with Lord Bute's trustees as to the effect of these labour clauses?— Yes. And you have had an understanding that these clauses shall not be construed so as to injure the lDen ? Witness: No I don't say that. I don't know frh.it you mean by injuring the men." Then what have they given you their word MIotlt, ? Witttees: As to the arithmetical profit to be made out of the money they may get from Htbipc'wner:* for doing the work, the object being— and I perfectly agree that. it is a very legitimate ■object indeed—to despatch "iÚ¡OfoJ much quicker than before. That is the main object, but if Lord Bute takes the liability upon his own shoulders— With the Employers'Liability Act and "peculiar acts of that kind-he would be a very silly man if he did not protect himself. Answering other quotums, witness said that Whenever the | eople who paid the money were dissatisfied with the charter they might have an hnmediate reference to the county court judge. Be considered that. there was also á. provision en- | fcbling the labourers to go to the county court •|udge. If he remembered rightly, the clause fru- vided for all persons concerned to go to the county «»ourc judge. Mr K S. Hill was the next witness called. Fie said that he was a member of the firm of I Charles Hill and .son: and had known the port of Cardiff for 25 years. He constantly used the Bute Docks, and had a large interest in the shipping therei. No doubt increased shipping accommodation was required. It had been a matter of general public interest, and had now become urgent. More ducks were required. He considered the proposed dock would be • of very great advantage. It was very L important t" have a large number of railway siding* about the new docks. By the construction of the new dock it waf impossible tosiitupthe I*enartli Dock, in his opinion. The foreshore to be taken was no use at present. It would be of advantagre to have the trimming in the hands of Lord Bute. He wovld prefer this he could not see that the trimming wonld beduue any theworse by Lord Bute than by the shipowners, for Lord Bute had the greatest interest in the prosperity of Cautiff and Cardiff Docks. It would be Lord Bute's intere-t to despatch vessels in quickly as possible, and to give every possible facility, and that at the cheapest rate he could. The labourer would not be in any way injured by the proponed trim- ming clauses. By having the whole of the work under one control, despatch would be promoted. In answer to Mr Matthews for the colliery pro- prietors, witness said: My tirm hu recently been formed mto a company. It would be to the in- terest of the colliery owner to promote despatch. Mr T. R. Thompson, steamship owner and •tearriship broker, Card if* said that in the profit- able management of steamaiu despatch was not the most desirable element, but the real f.,potld.. A meeting of shipowners at Cardiff ap- pointed a committee to consider this bill, of which he (witness) was one. They pointed out to Lord Bute's advisers some of the c auses which ebe-y clmsidered would require amendment; and they were met m an extremely fair manner by Lord Bute's advisers. Witness desired to see the bill passed. He thought the necessity for in- creased dock accommodation was admitted even by the opponents of the bill. Sailing vessels j were frequently detained outside of the port as much as a week, ten days, and a fortnight; whilst 111 18J1 much damage Witi caused to Vet3e1s outride of the harbour by a storm, the want of accommodation having prevented th. vessels from en Lering. The new dock would be an ad- ?antago to the trade. Tire piece of foreshore h tel 1 it was proposed to utilise was not now of the slightest use. He thought that :t now dock, giving additional facilities for despatch, would be worth an additional charge. He thought that the despatch money at presentj>a;d 11 id very heavily Upon those paying it. If they paid an amount under tair circumstances he should not complain but at rn-esent thiti was not the case. The sbip- owiiei v of Cardiff, as a body, had agreed to support the bill. Affixed to their memorial be recognised the names of some,of the very be^t shi pawners* whose vessels frequented the port of 1 OmÜff-persoos of undoubted standing. W itlless, conti nninK, spoke in favour oftftatrtm- ming'being carried out by the dock, owner. At f present, he said, the freighter* got one farthing per tnu on the trimming, with the exception of ilir George K-lliot, wb»>, being more philanthropic, took one halfpenny. (Laughter, t Tlie foremen fnt part of the_iu<mey fur trimming. At all the porCi in the North of Kngtand the trimming was dnue by the dwekuwnes. With respect to the nursing of the tips at Cardiff, he. said, speaking from a shi{)*>wne>r's point of view, that the bill ;-w«uld tend to abeli.ib it. Shipowners derived benefit from the lighting and watching of the (Sdcka and he thought they uught to pay reason- ably tor it. Aftier furthe* examination tha committee ad- journed. ■Rot/SK 011' OOMMOSS, Tuesday Afternoon.—To- 'day the Bate Dock Kill again cattfe before the "Ccmnnittea of thi House of Commons, comprised "as fallows: Sir H. Selwia-lbbetecm (chairaaanj, Sir J, Eardley Wilmot, Mr Ralli, and Lewd lMmuoo Fitzmaioriee. The same counsel represented the different in- ilerests as on previous occasions. [ At thj openiBg of the- sitting, The Chairman remarked that he should like to thow by whose authority the House of Common? was to be asked at two c/chick that day W refer the minutes: of the BiiJs erf '69 and '74- to the etIIR- JDittee. He had never heard $I- ww-d a boot •Mxnigh hø ondensto d lhat the matter should go through the chairman of the committee. L Several gentlemen representing varioutintefesttt Wiving disclaimed any knowledge of tba course adopted, Mr Matthews,Q.C. lIor the colliery proprietors)^ renmrVed that it was the fault. of the parlramen- tary agent of tlt&t. body, and he (Mr Matthews) Taegfctod to tyxdogiee. The Chairmaa replied that tha parliamentary agent had assumed aa authority to which he. had <bo r ght. The matter had been put down in the 'Same of Sir Charles ltarster. who. although a member of the committee ef petitions, had nothing to do with this bill. With the object of proceeding in order it was decided to make the application to the House through the Chairman of the committee on another occasion, an intimation to that effect to be conveyed to Sir Charles Forster. Mr T. R. Thompson, examined on the previous day, was recalled. Mr Sullivan (for the coal trimmers): Will you ask the witness, sir, whether he knows anything as to the shipowners asking the promoters of this bill to put in a clause for the direct payment of the trimming charges to the men, and if such matter was mooted in the negotiations between the shipowners and the promoters ? Witness: There has been no such thing. Mr Thomas Joseph, Tydraw, colliery pro- prietor, was next called. Ay one well acquainted with Cardiff and its trade, and as a colliery pro- prietor holding under the Earl of Dunraven, the Earl of Jersey, the Marquis of Bute, and" other landlords, he was taking, steps to increase the output of his collieries. WitS respeet to the demand for increased dock accommodation, he said' it was very much wanted. Indeed a case had been made out for it in1874,when the coal shipped did not amount to one-half of what it did now. Trade was choked back to the collieries for want of sufficient accommodation. The waggons were continually kept waiting at Cardiff, so much so that it was calculated the delay cost three half- pence per ton upon all the coal shipped. If there were a regular system, and an absence of the stemming, all parties, would be benefited, includ- ing the colliery proprietors, the merchants, and the dock owners. He had seen the- plans- of the proposed dock, and strongly approved of them. He preferred it to the dock of 1874, which would be inconvenient for the large steamers now in use, being a cisooked ene oi an L shape. The colliery proprietors who had property in the neighbourhood, and who shipped at Cardiff, who were in favour of the Bill of 1882, repre- sented 42,000 acres of mineral property. The area of those opposed was only 19,000 acres. Those in favour of this bill produced last year 5,200,000 tons of coal; those opposed produced less than 3,700,000 tons. The new dock would be a great advantage to the colliery proprietors. He believed that more than. 10,000,000 tons of coal would be shipped in 1880—judging from the past. In the area personally known to him, forming-am estimate upon the seams at present worked is one part or another, the quaatity of coal available was, he believed^ 500,000,000 tons of steam cool1 and 200^006^000 of house and manufacturing coal. In round numbers, there was an available supply of 700,000,000 of tons in this district alone. He thought that Cardiff wwuTd maintain its superior- ity as a shipping port, owing te the excellent facilities which it offered. There would no doubt be a great increase in the shipping of coal at Swansea owingto the new line authorised last week, and at Newport by that important com- munication-, the Newport and Caerphilly line. At the same tine, Cardiff would still hold its own, and. he had no doabt the traffic would go on largely increasing. Tkere was als» a very-large import trade to be provided for. He should say that those in favour of this bit! were reporters IÑ haK-a-rnillion tons of iron ore, auMng ether mr terests, last year. The present dock charges in- cluded nothing, he believed, to pap foe the 60 miles of railway sidings aad the 5a lecotaetivea moving about the coah He should be glad if he had to pay only 3d a too fer this work at a neighbouring port 6d a tCM was: charged for these services. He thought that the docltowner should at least be paid the expense out of pocket for doing this werfc, from which other people derived the benefit. He. expressed approval of the trim- ming clause- in the bill, faying- that the tipping and trimming were two parts of the same opera- tion. The. dockowner already did the tipping, and then the merchant stepped into the bold and trimmed the coal. He could not see that the labourer was likely to be injured by the work of trimming being in the hands of the trustees of the Marquis of Bute. A benefit, instead of a dis- advantage, would accrue to the labourer, seeing that he would be properly paid. Asked whether it was true that the South Wales coal waa of so brittle a character that a South Wales labourer mist trim it to prevent breakage, he said he heard this statement for the first time in the House of Lords committee, but he considered that the South Wales coal was a very hard coal. It was, in his opinion, fair that a penalty should be imposed upon the persons occupying the sidings for more than 48 hours—blocking them. He had himself suffered from this cause. With anything like proper working there need be no hardship in the payment of the extra charge for waggons delayed on the sidings for more than 48 hours. He believed that it was necessary that some pressure should be put upon the persons who conduct their traffic irregularly. Mr Wm. Henry Taylor, of the firm of Gray and Co., of Whitby, shipowners, next gave evidence. He said in answer to Mr Bidder, for the promoters, that his firm had seven: steamers in the foreign coal trade, and frequently called at Cardiff for cargoes. At Newcastle the trimmers were en- tirely under the control of the Tyne dock authori- ties, which was a satisfactory system, whereas be had found that the practice at Cardiff was ex- tremely unsatisfactory to everyone but the freighters, who got a profit out of it. There was no reason for saying that if the dock authorities had charge of the trimming less care would be exercised in the performance of the work than was exercised at present. Nursing was carried on by all the shippers at Cardiff. If it was for the benefit of the freighters to nurse the tips there was no doubt it would be done. It would be of great advantage to get the trimming in the hands of the dock authorities. Quicker despatch would be secured, and it would help to do awaj with the objectionable practice of nurs- ing, which he believed the witnesses opposing the bill would admit was done. Mr Frederick Edwards, Cardiff, said that his firm had been connected with the shipping of that port for upwards of 20 years. They had a line of steamers sailing from Cardiff to New York, known as the Edwards Line." and they had several steAm tugs besides. His firm were the largest carriers of American produce into Cardiff. About the necessity of increasing the dock accommoda- tion, he thought there was no quastion. He con- sidered that what tha promoters of the bill in- tended to provide for amounted to perfection. He thought that the charges were reasonable. He considered that the present system of trimming was open to abuse. The work of loading cargoes was not by any means done to his satisfaction aow. Mr .Tames Waie said he was the owner of several Iarge steamers belonging to Cardiff, with the shipping of which port he had been connected during the last 32 years. He had £4íJ,OOO invested in steamers and had in addition the manage- ment of dS40,000 worth. Until lately he was en- gaged in colliery enterprise, and in the course of the 32 years alluded to he had shipped over one million tons of coal at Cardifi and Newport. He had frequently been ob!;ged to send shins to Newport instead of deal- ing with them at Cardiff, iu order to get a better J despatch. He occasionally sent his vessels to I Swansea, but he found Cardiff to be a cheaper 1 port. He had known a sailing vessel delayed at Cardiff for fi ve weeks, owing to the stem. That was some time ago, but within the last two or threes years he had known vessels to be delayed threv weeks. The utilisation of the foreshore for the purpose of this dock would be of great use. He thought it would be better to have the load- ing and unloading of vessels under one head, although the work was now done very well. He considered that the trimming of the cargoes by Lord Bute would be an advantage. Mr Philip Morel, senior partner in the firm of Morel Brothers, Cardiff, was called as a witness. In answer to Mr Bidder (for the promoters), he said his firm imported over 200,000 tons of iron in the year. His firm had lost five vessels in one storm on Penarth Beach through their not being Sufficient dock aceon modation at Cardiff. In the great storm of January, 1881, twenty-one vessels were lost on Penarth Beach through not being able to get into the docks. If constructed, the present dock would be a very great boon to the trade of Cardiff. He had had an opportunity of studying the provisions of the bill, and, as a shipowner, he was perfectly satisfied that the bill would be in the interest of the trade of the port. He would rather see the Bute authorities have all the control of the labour they were now asking for, including the trimmers— there being no apprehension that the work of trimming would be done in any less satisfactory way than at present. As they were the people who paid for the trimming, it appeared to him to be only right that they should have a voice in whom they preferred. When a vessel came into the docks at present, there was a great deal of con- fusion in the way of the men tonting for employ- ment. Mr C. O. Yonnsr, of the firm of Me-srs Young and Christies, next ga-ve evidence. He said, in am-wer tn counsellor the promoters that his finn were v ery largely interested in t!ie shipping trade of Cardiff-—managing a quarter of a million of money. Further accommodation was urgently wanted. Srilmg ships were now often detained in the roads; in the cade of steamers, they had the preference, but he had known steamers detained 24 and 48 hours, or even three days it Cardiff. He had consideied the provisions of the present bill, and lie thotrjrht that the measure would be bene- ficial to the trade of the port. He thouglrt the trimming clauses and those with regard to the hobMcra and riggers would be of advantage, Mr W. II. Hawkins, Secretary of the Cardiff Chamber ot Commerce and of the Cardiff Ship- owner?;' Association, who said be attended at the bid ling o»f a Speaker's warrant, gave evidence as to the calling of meetings, of the shipowners' asso- ciation and the chamber of commerce. He sent circulars U>eivery managing shipowner be knew of, it being desired to get a true representation of the manacring- shipowners, of Cardiff at tbe meeting- spoken of by Mr Capper, the chairman of the shipowners' association. He handed in the reso- lution arrived at as previously reported. The committee then adjwurned. HomHt OP COXMOXS, Wednesday Afterao&n.— Th8 Bute Dock Bill, 1882, again came before tfre I Committee of the Ilou^e of Commons.—Sir H. S«lwiu-Ibbet«ua fclwurmanJ, Sir J. Eardley Wihnot, Mr Ralli, and Lord Rdmond Fits- maarice— to-day. The same cuuuael were sagagod aa on previous occasions. Captahr Robert- Wood, the first witness, said in auswer to Mr Bidder, Q.C. fforthw promoters* that he was over looker and ship's husband fnr Messrs Carr and Ge", of Greenock. 'ih» *essel» of that firm want to Cardiff, and witness was. acquainted with the mode of working at the Bute Docks. Sailing rensels had to wait a. long time before they could pet a. tip; and delay ensued. Me did not think that the prBneat system of trim- ming was satisfactory. Q, Would it oe tot the advantage of the trade far the duck authorities to provide the trllnmers. r —A. I think itt would be much better fur theslrip- owners. You think business' trould be much better and • quicker done ?—A. Yes i I think s<r. Continuing* witness said that tiio rig-gars,. hob- quicker done' ?—A. Yes i I think s<r. Continuing* witness said that tiio rig-gars,. hob- 'biers, ami labourer* were a nni?:u.ce i*vth»ship- mvuer at Cardiff, u. tlvey coulu not be fouad whan wanted. He thought it v 1 be much better if these men were brought -v the con- trol «C the dock authorities. Wher. M ;J ^ot-their tura on the tips, after waiting, > i deaf of delay occurred owing to saUin;c v .ssvls being moved to and ko at ttie picas are i,I.. u ciguiieid. in order to make room for steamers. He had car- ried a good deal of Welsh coal, and he did not know that it was so peculiarly oenstituted as to require very steady handling. Replying to Mr Matthews (for the colliery pro- prietors), witness said that the berthing master, at the instance of the freighters' foremen, ordered vessels from the tips. The berthing master was in the employment of the Bute trustees. He found that ships were generally loaded within the lag days, but they could be loaded quicker if they got right up to the tip at once. The ship had to pay for the shifting, and if the freighter owned a steamer which was ready for loading, to secure despatch money he made the sailing vessel wait. The demurrage was generally 4d per registered ten. He had not eemmand over the men who were put on board eemmand over the men who were put on board to shift the vessel. Ha had never applied to the Bute trustees to get a gang of men to trim his vessel. He had not thought of it. Mr Matthews But. at present labour in. Car- diff is free and you could have done so ?—A. There is generally a clause in the charter party stipulating that the freighters are to trim.—Q. But your owners are not at the mercy of the freighters. They can make the terms. By Mr Pembroke Stephens (for the. shipowners who oppose): You complain that you cannot get under the. tip. Whatpreventsyou ?—A. I complain of being ordered away from the tip before we get finished.—Q. Have you ever found this that there is a delay iu getting down the coal that is intended for your ships by the trustees themselves '/—A. I do not know.—Q. Do you know that the coal is not sorted out at the sidings quickly enough ?—A.Jt do not know. But I have known coal intended for my ship on the dock sidings, but which could not get down along- side the vessel.—Q, Do you know that the arrangement of the sidings is exclusively in the hands of the Bute trustees ?—A. Yes, I under- stand this. Mr A. M. Sullivan for the coal trimmers How do the men do the work ?—A. The men do the work fairly well.—Q. Supposing instead of the freighters sending the men; to do the trimming, the dock authorities did ao that is what you would like?—A. Yes.—Q. But you see no reason why the men need be licensed under the new system any more than under the old ?—A. No. The Chairman But it is not proposed to license ■ the trimmers. Mr Bidder Ne the riggers and hobblers. Mr Sullivan Oh yes, that is so. (To witness) when you Toad within your fair time you still don't like the expense of the moving in the dock ? —A. No.—Q. But if you had not to pay these hobblers, would yeu not be under the expense of keeping your own crew ?—A. The dock company move them themrelves.—Q. Would they do it for nothing ?—A- No.—Q. They are not in the habit of doing things at Cardiff Docks for nothing, are they ?—A. Jie.—Q. I understand the whole sub- stance of your evidence to be that you complain that sailing ships are made to move from the tips to make way for steamers?—A. That is se.— Q. Supposing the trimming were in the handfe of the Bute Dock authorities—surety that would not prevant sailing ships from being turned out. Have you ever complained of this moving from the tips ?"—A. Yea.—Q. And the Bute authorities gave you no satisfaction ?—A. No.—Q. Is it because you could net get aactiefactionthat you think theyought to have more power ?—A. Yes. (Laughter.)— Q. How often did you complain of this moving of sailing vessls—fcialf a dozen or 20 times ?—A. No, once or twice. The Chairman: Ba,re the dock authorities any power at present in their hands to interfere- with tha freighters and trimmers ? Mr Sullivan The dockmaster can prevant any such abase as that alluded to in the d sclc. Mr Bidder: He really cannot. The Chairman: We have no evidence of that at all: Mr SuHiran (to witness): At all events you got no satisfaction from the Bute people ?—A. No. Mr Bidder: When the freighter has possession of a tip he has a right to have any vessel at that tipt The berth-master has no voice in the matter. The Chairman The presumption is—unless there should be direct evidence to the contrary— that the berth-master has merely to carry out the instructions of the foreman, who is employed by the freighters. Mr Pembroke Stephens (for the opposing ship- owners) called attention to section 32 of the Act of 1874, which provided that the undertakers might regulate the admission of vessels into or near the docks or works, and the removal out of and from the same, in such manner as to give and secure a preference of steamers over sailing vessels. The Chairman: As I understand that clause it is entirely limited to bringing vessels into the dock and taking them out. Mr Stephens: "Docks and works." Mr Matthews: The dockmaster has charge over the tips, and he assigns one to a particular freighter. He may then use it either for a steam ship or sailing vessel. Mr Bidder: And this witness complains that the freighter uses that power for shifting away the sailing vessel in favour ef the steamer. Mr Bidder (to witness): Now about the charter party. As I understand, the freighters offer a charter party, which contains a clause usually which secures the trimming to the freighters ?—A. Yes.—Q. And, if you do not chose to accept the charter party, you lose the freight ?—A. Yes. Captain Archibald Thompson, who was in com- mand of one of the National Line steamers from Liverpool to New York for 14 years, and was now inspector of coal for the Union Line of steamers at Cardiff, was next called as a witness. He said he partly inspected the trimming of the coal shipped for the use of the Union Line steamers, and he had not seen the freighters' foremen taking much part in the work. The Union Company had dispensed with the screening at tbe port shipping coals colliery screened. This step had been decided upon at his recommendation, and it had been found to answer well. In his opinion, it would be of benefit to all parties-tn the shipowners, the consumers, and the trirnUlers- to leave the trimming of the coal in the hands of the dock authorities. The freighters now trimmed the vessels, and nursing was going on every day. The trimmers nursed the tips, filling up the time nntilmore coal was sent down, thus losing a good deal of time. If nursing were put an end to it would tend to quick despatch. The captain could not interfere with the trimmers, except as to the way in which they trimmed; he could not interfere M to the time the trimmers took. The coal from his company was sent away in sailing vessels, and he had had experience of nursing— the sailing vessels being ordered away by the freighter to make room for steamers, upon which the freighters received despatch money. By Mr Matthews, for the colliery proprietors Your wish is that a freighter should be prevented from loading steamers, in order that he may first complete a sailing vessel?—A. I want to have just ce done to the sailing vessel.—Q. What injustice is done to the sailing vessel if she is loaded within her lay days ?—A. There is the expense oi moving her out and in. And then the sailing vessel is not always loaded within her lav days.—Q. But then she gets demurrage ?— A. That is the shipowner's business.—Q. And then there is the demurrage to be paid on the steamers if they are loaded. Do you expect that the Bute trustees are to employ and pay gangs of trimmers for nothing?—A. No. I think they ou^ht to get something. —Q. But-if it is B" advantageous, why has it not been adopted before ?—A. I do not know.—Q. And yet it would be for the bene- fit of everybody to have the trimmers employed exclusively by the Bute authori- ties ? Why has it not been adopted ? — A. It would be for the benefit of the ship- owners, and it would be for the benefit of the trimmer.—Q. What benefit would it be to the trimmer T— A. He would, have fair pay and less hours. The Chairman There is a good deal of imagi- nation in all this. Mr Matthews What I want the witness to ex- plain to the comipittee is why a system which is to the benefit of the shipowners and everybody else, and which could be adopted now, has not been adopted. Witness: But there is a monopoly of the freighters now. Mr Matthews: There is no monopoly of the freighters. Bus I suppose yon put it that the changed system would be for the benefit of the freighters amongst the everybody?—A. Yes, I do.—Q. Well, why have they not adopted it? — A. I do not know. — Mr Matthews Nor anybody else. (A laugh.) Mr Sullivan: If it be correct as you say that the nursing goes on when the coal is not down, the nursing must be in consequence of coal not being down. It is in no sense the fault of the men ?— A. No.—Q. Am I not correct in saying it is to the interest of the trimmers to have di"P3Wh just aa much as to the inte.re8t of tha ahipowner?-A. I believe it is.—Q. Do yon know that Mr E. C. Downing, a sh\pbroker, keeps a gang of trim- mers, and trims the Cork steamers ?—A. I do not know. Mr Bidder: I don't think they shipconl at all. Answering other questions from Mr Snllivpn, witness said that the nursing system did not pre- vail so much at Newport as at Cardiff. He had made complaints both at Newport and Cardiff about his ships not being loaded within the proper time. To Mr Bidder: At Newport they find the sys- tem so intolerable that they have a bill in Parlia- ment to put a stop to it; and complaints are also made at Swansea. Mr J. C. McCulloch, a mining and civil engineer of 30 years' experience, and co-mected with the AdiuiraltyyPaid that thosewho hatl the. tip" should have the trimming, for convenience and better working all round. If the trinrminsr was not worked in unison with the ship, the efficiency of tips might be, to a gieat extent, neutralised. He did not think there was any reason to believe that trimmers would he less efficient if iu the employ and pay of the Bate instead of under the control of the freighters. He thought, on the contrary, that there wotdd be greater effiofency. Mr Matthews, for the colliery proprietors and freigbiotM Thill so-called system of nursing is against the real interest of the freighters ?—A. Yes, I think so. — Q. And if ene freighter does nurse the tips it is to the injury of the rest ?—A. Certainly it is. I quitef agree with yott. v Witnass I quite telieve the ooal shippers to be. ia the majority intelligent and honourable men. Mr Matthews: Ytft, I leave the howour to re- present them. tA laugh.) They ought to taboo (the tmscruimlous freiglrter then?—A. Yet, they I ought to taboo him—Q. If they know their business as intelligent and honourabla men, they ooght to tabotr tho otisoiupulous freighters ia their >wn interest, and why do they not do so ? Witness; vVelT, that is. a question I cannot answer. Men look at matters front different stand-points. What 000 man considers hooour-' able another man does nott In answer to further q-nesfions, the witness said the South Wales coal was iwnfe friable coal unless it was exposed to the weather. It. would not stand the wind and the sun and the rain. It did not break into dust exactly, bat into small cubes. Mr Pembroke Stephens' (far. thef shipowners, who oppose^ What. was the origin of Baxter's mixture-?—A. Tha origin wae-this •, that we found it necessary W mix steam with bituminous coil to prevent waste. Mr Sullivan (for the enal trimmer: Do you think that if the-dock master had sufficient power he could pro vent. tMMing Y-A. Yes^ but I» has. not that power. Morøu, coal trimmer at the Bute Docks. oS was next called as a witness, and, in answer to Mr Bidder (for the promoters), he said he was in a regular gang in the employment of the Ferndale Colliery. Some time ago there were complaints, and he was discharged, but since then he had been taken on again, and still worked for the same firm. Trimming was very laborious work, and work which fairly deserved to be well paid. Mr Bidder: Do you get the full share of the amount which the sShip pays for the trimming ?— A. No, sir.—Q. What is taken out of it before it comes to you ?—A. A farthing a ton is kept by the merchant,—Q. Do you get the rest?—A. Then we have to make an allowance to the foreman.—Q. What is the nature of the allowance to the fore- men ?—A. So much per week, in some cases £1 per week I have had to pay.—Q. And the fore- man has'his own wages quite distinct?—A. Yes I believe the foremen of Messrs Davis & Sons re- ceives £210s per week.—Q. There is such a thing as standing in wjth the gang ?—A. Yes but I have never been troubled with standing-in foremen.— Q. What is the meaning of standing in" with the gang ?—A. The foreman makes the 7th or 9th man, and receives a 7th or 9th share. — Q. Does he do any part ef the trimming work ?—A. No.—A. Does he go into the hold while the trimming is going on ?— A. No.—^Q. Does he take any part in seeing that the coal-trimming is properly done?—A. No.— Q. Do you know anything of nursing the tips ?— A. Yes, I have done it. I did it on the 6th of last April, in the case of a ship called the Venice. —Q. Who tells you to nurse ?—A. Our foreman. We carry on the work quietly and steadily until the coal comes down from the col- liery, when the stock of coal is rather short.— Q. Is that very often ?—A. Oh yes, very often.—Answering other questions, witness said he had very often known a tip to be nursed until the arrival of another vessel. The berth would be kept for a steamboat if one was expected in. Tips would sometimes be nursed a day. In April last they tipped ten waggons from 6 to 9, seven from 9 to 12, and one from 12 to 1, that being the number tipped up to 5 o'clock. The number of waggons was 18 in all, whereas they could have tipped at the very least 50 or 60. Mr Bidder: It shows what can be done by judicious management. (Laughter.) Is it a fact that in some cases men are paid in a public-house of a brother or cousin of a foreman?—Yes, there are cases, but under Messrs Davis & Sons we are paid in a place called the Lodge." Formerly we were always paid in a public-house.—Q. In such cases is there a beer score?—A. Very of ten.— Q. As a lien on the wages, the beer store is deducted before the wages are paid ?—No answer. Mr Matthews (for the colliery proprietors): Do you look forward then to having beer without paying for it under the new act? (Laughter.)—A. Not at all, sir.—Q. What were you dismissed for by Messrs Davis ?—A. Mr Taylor is the best man to answer that question.—Q. Did he say it was because vou were too long in loading a vessel?—A. No, he (fid not.—Q. Was not the gang dismisaed-because it did not load a steamer in time?—A. The gang wswr not all dismissed— 9 out of 14 received notice.—Q. Was not the reason assigned a delay in loading a steamer ?— A. No.—Q. If yon had worked as fast as you could, you would not have been paid so much as you were ? — A. No, not at all. The more tons I put in, the more money I received. Witness went on that this trimming was very hard work. It was requisite that it should be done by men used to it. It wanted a little prac- tice. In his opinion it was not necessary that the coal should be handled by people who knew all about it. He trimmed-a cargo to the satisfac- tion of the captain; the foreman did not look alter it—Q, Why did you pay the foreman ? —A. I knew what wound happen if I did not.—Q. You mean that the foreman would not keep you on ?— A. Yes. I afterwards refused to give towards the foreman, and that, I believe, is the reason why I was discharged.—Q. Had Messrs Davis's fore- man any power to discharge you ?— A. I believe he had; and .1 know it, because I know a man he has discharged.— Q. Who ? (Witness appeared reluctant to answer.) —Q. Never mind, I shall have Mr Davis here, and the foreman, and I will get it from one of them.—A. I wish he (the foreman) was here. He would be rather ashamed to hear me speak of him. The Chairman It would be as well. perhaps, to keep the other man's name out of it.—Q. Are there foremen over the men employed by the Bute trustees ?—A. I cannot answer.—Q. This system of paying the foremen by the men is a common one at Cardiff?—A. Very common it was in the early part of 1879 that I objected to pay the fore- man. It was understood between Messrs Davis and the foreman at that time that he was not to receive a penny from the trimmers. But through the head-trimmer the question was brought before the others, at the instigation of the foreman, and they entered into an agreement to give him £1 per week, or 10s from each gang.— Asked what advantage was derived by paying the foreman this sum, the witness said that he allowed a. smaller number of men to go in the gangs and thus left more work for those em- ployed. Supposing the trimming were taken out of the hands of the freighters, and put into those of the trustees, he supposed that foremen would have to be employed. Mr Sullivan (for the trimmers) Have you ever seen a paper like this ? (banding document).—A. Yes, and siguod them on several occa.sions.Q. Then you are aware that the Bute people receive payment for keeping the tips waiting ?—A. It is not known to the Bute trustees.—The learned counsel then read the document as follows: — Bute Dock, Cardiff.—To the trustees of the Marquis of Bute.—We hereby request you to keep- tippers and ——— hoi-ses at No. —— tip, on siding of ———— dock, to proceed with the loading of the ——— on her arrival, and we agree to pay the tippers' wages f )r the time they are waiting. A. That is many years ago.—Q. Then yon have known the Bute people themselves to take money to keep the tips waiting ?—A. No; that is an agreement between the tippers and the foremen. —Q. And yet it is addressed to the Bute trustees, Who provides the tippers ?—A. I believe Lord Bute.—Q. Then when the tips: are. kept waiting, the foreman pays the tippers direct?—A. Yes.— Q. As a matter of fact, don't you know that the tippers frequently receive gratuities from the trimmers for working more quickly in order to expedite matters?—A. I have paid some pounds to them, but not for working more quickly.—Q. Then what for?—A. For better attendance.—Q. The majority of the men were in your case in favour of paying £ l per week to the foremen?— A. They were.—Q. Are the majority of the trim- mers in favour?—A. No, but those that are in the gangs are compelled, or else they know what to expect.—Q. If, in the case you mention, the vote had been the other way, would the jBl per week have been required ?—A. Yes.— Q. Is a like option"given to other gangs ?—A. I do not know. —Q. Have you paid any others ?— A. I have paid the foreman of Messrs Burness and Sons. I had rather not give the names of others. Mr SuHtvan We do not wish you to do your- self any harm. But if you complained, what would be the consequence ?—A. If I complained, I dare say I would tind that I would not be re- quired. Men are compelled to do things some- times they do not like. The Chairman Y 8S, they are. Witnef-3 And very often in Cardiff. (Laughter.) Mr Sullivan If the foremen under the Bute trustees disobeyed orders, and required money from the gangs, would you complain ?—A. I do not know. Mr Michael (for the promoters) Is there a custom of paying a premium for entering gangs ? —A. Yes, there is a custom. Mr Sul!i\an What makes you pay?—A. I think it worth while in order to get employment. Michael Driscoll, coal trimmer at the Bute Docks, who said he hnd been engaged there for the past nine years, was next called. He was a hobbler, and not a member of a permanent gang, but got work when he could. Generally the fore- man used his permanent gang for the trimming; if the foreman had not a permanent gang he em- ployed hobblers. The trimmers only got a share of the money paid for the trimming—the mer- chant getting a farthing, and the foreman "stand- ing in with the gang. For this the foreman did not lqok after the trimming at all, that being left to the leader of the gang—the foreman being chiefly engaged to look after the waggons. The foremen it was who gave the directions to nurse the tips, which practise was resorted to in the in- terest of the freighters. He rememliered the case of the Royal Minstrel, which was being loaded by Messrs Beynon and Company. This was in the month of May. The trimming was commenced on Monday evening, and finished on Thursday morning. He received £2 10s for that work, but if he had had his proper share as he considered, he w<Hild have received much more. Since it had been known that he was coming to give evidence for the promoters, he had been boycotted prac- tically, only being able to get work with about two firms, it would be, in his opinion, of advantage to the trimmers were the trimmers in tho employ- ment of the dock authorities. He had been paid at the Cardiff pastle public-house by Mrs Moore, the landlady, with whom the money had been left by the foremen. This was a i cry common occurrence, but in a good many cases they were paid in coffee taverns and "lodges." Trimmers were paid at the Friendship Hotel, Bute-terrace, the Cambrian Arms, and the Pier Hotel. Mr Pembroke Stephens (for the shipowners) You are a member of one of these casual gangs?— A. The foreman of the gang employs whom he wishes. We generally enquire if any man is required but there are no casual gangs. We are the odd men who are taken on to make up gangs to the required number.—CJ. And you join your- selves to any gang where there there may happen to bo an opening ?—A, Yes.—Q. How do you know your share in the case of the Royal Minstrel ought to have been more than £ 210s 6d? —A. By calculating the tons we tipped as the tariff.—Q. How did you come to ealt upon Mf Moore ?—A. We went there to be paid.—Q. Yo. went with the rest ?—A. Yes. It was under- stood. Mr Sullivan, for the coal trimmer# •, Did Y01I" ask the gang known as the Cambrian gang for employment 1-A. I do not know that gang.—(?. Mr Sandy's gang, you know. You have spoken about boycotting. Did you aak then* for employ- ment?—A. No.—Q. Did yotf apply" to" Messrs Da vies and Sons ?—No.—Q. Did you try Messrs Cory Bros. and Company ?—A. No.' It would be of no use for a Roman datholic to go to them.— Ql You ate naw* trying fot" the appointment of leading trimmer for the Bute Trustees?—A. 1 rtiay be so.—Q. WeH, »re yo*» leading trimmer ?— I cannot say. Mf Bidder; But there vt no such appoititmetft^ i«there? Mr Sullivan: It may bs be1 libl another high appointment in the Starfce>—-i» abeyance, aad wait- iflgior— (Liwigbtefcy Mr Bidder He is not waiting for the Dttchy of Lancaster srrrely yutr (bar not suggest- that? (Loud laughter.) Mr Sullivan (to witness}.: Have your r6<?ei ffetJ anjr appointment under the But&'Rustee&stwh as lead- ing trimmer ? (No answer.)'— Q. Have you had a little conversation with Mr Cuthbert abcrut it ?— A. That is my private business.—Q. Have you had any conversation about it ?—A. With whom*? —Q. With anybody f—A. With whom ?—Q, The matter has been discussed, has-it not?—A. Not withressard t. this affair. (Laughter.)—Q. Far be it from us to say so. But the matter has been discussed, has it not ?—A. Well, that is for YU8 to prove, and not me. (Laughter. r-Q. Who is the person that has talked withywttaboufrit?— A. Who is the person T tA laugh.).—Q. Yes. Who is the person f—A. Well .—Q. Who is tbe psreoa ?-A. Wou. Mr iieed.—Xa lie thw foreman under Mr Cuthbert ?—A. Yes.—Q. Is Mr Cuthbert the manager of the labour depart- ment at the Bute Docks ?—A. I don't know.—Q. Don't you know that he is ?—A. I do not know.— Q. Has he control of the tips ?—A. Yes.—Q. Yes. When was there this talk about getting an ap- pointment ?—A. Well, I cannot give you the date.—Q. A few weeks ago ?—A. About a fort- night ago. (Laughter.) By Mr Michael (for tne promoters): The Bute Trustees have no gang of trimmers at present. Mr Reed did not represent himself as having autho- rity to represent the Bute authorities. Patrick Driscoll, 12, Duffryn-street, Cardiff, who had been working as a coal trimmer for the past 12 years, and who was in the service of Messrs Davis and Sons, now gave evidence. He described the process of nursipg the tips, and instanced the case of the Baron Ardrossan lying in the East Dock in the month of May last, and the Mace- donia. Nursing was quite common, and it was town talk in Cardiff that premiums were paid by men in order to become trimmers—members of regular gangs. They were often paid in public- houses ia Cardiff-he had eben paid on a Sunday in a. public-house. Asked repeatedly whether the employment of a small gang in loading did not result in "the fore- man and the men getting a larger share of money than might otherwise be the case, he replied over and over again that it would be better for' the foreman and worse for the ship, but he would not say that the men would benefit. The foreman trimmer told him that by paying the foreman £1 a-week they could get M less men on vessels." He believed that it would be better to give this JB1, as by having less men" they could make more money. James Cliff, 41, Davies-street, Cardiff, labourer, said he had been engaged in loading and trimming coal at the docks of that port for 17 years. In 1875 he joined a regular gang of hobblers at Messrs Cory's, but owing to a dispute left two years afterwards. It was a regular practice, he went on, for foremen to deduct part of the men's wages. He had had great experience of the nursing of tips, which was done to a considerable extent. The object was to gain two points—when a merchant was short of coal, and wanted to hold a tip until such time as a train came down, the tip was nursed, and it was also nursed at times when a steamboat was expected. Mr Matthews: Have you ever made a com- plaint to the merchant and freighters of deduc- tions from your wages, and of blackmail levied ?— A. Some years ago I was one of a num- ber who made complaints to a great number of merchant*, and brokers at Cardiff. The brokers promised their support, but said they could do nothing, as the freighters were agfiinst them. And for 13 weeks I went around the Car- f diff Docks, suffering the frowns, sneers, and scorn of my fellow-workmen for trying to remedy their differences; (Laughter.}—Q. Yon have been dis- missed a good deal, have you not ?—A. No only twice.—Q. Are you a. noted character in Cardiff ? —A. I do not know about being a noted character. I suppose 1 am known amongst some ef my fel- lows. But as to being noted, what do you mean? (Laughter.) Mr Bidder: That is a fair question* Mr Mat- thews. (Laughter.) My learned friend is bound toaMwerwhathenMMM. frLamgtrtw.y Mr Matthews: When you have dooeinternapt- ing I wiH tell him. To witness Are you a per- son known as. an opponent to. the freightage ?—A. Opponent of the freighters ? Never.—Q. Are you a friend of the promoters ?>—A. Well I do not know.—-Q. Are you. kaews as U. enemy of the foremen ?—A. Only in regard to the blood-sucking system that has been written about in the papers. —Q. Are you yourself a newspaper correspon- dent T—A. Not generally. Mr Sullivan: Are, you ever?—A. I write a letter sometimes.—Q. BLa-ve you been pakl for writing letters.—A. I decline to answer that.— Q. Perhaps you have written on both sides.—A. I decline to answer ?—Q- Have you been paid' for writing on both sides ?—A. If you have got testi- mony from the other that I have been paid I shall be glad to hear it. (Laughter.)-—Q, Were you dismissed in consequence of writing letters ?—A. No, sir.—Q. Had you not been dismissed from your employment in consequence of writing letters to the newspapers when Mr Riches took you on ? —A. No.—Q. What have 1011 been doing re- cently?—A. Discharging ballast for Mr Hill, contractor.—Q. Under the Bute Trustees? And you have objected to the system at the Car- diff Docks?—A. Yes, to the blood-sucking sys- tem at the Cardiff Docks.—Q. So much so that you have brought your son up to racing. (Laugh- ter.) Mr Bidder: Is not this going too far ? The Chairman: It is very near Goodwood, but I don't think we require to go into betting. (Laughter.)5 Mr Sullivan (to witness): Are you the Mr Cliff who made a speech in the Ten-acre Field,— A. I am.—Q. Did you get up that meeting?—A. Well, sir, I took an active part. The meetihg was got up with the object of discussing the pre- sent system of the Cardiff Docks, the future sys- tem of Cardiff Docks—(laughter)—and the labour clauses of the present bill.—Q. Was the next meeting called by the men ?—A. By a great num- ber of them.—Q. Have any of the Bute people been seeing you about these meetings and speeches ?—A. No.—Q. Was the meeting in question reported in the South Wales Dtrily NewlJ of Tuesday, May Q3ttl!—A. 1 think the meeting was held on Monday.—Q. Who paid fov the bills, and met the expenses of getting up that meeting ?—A. That is not my business. I don't know.—Q. Were not you largely concerned in getting ap the meeting? and, therefore, don't you know who paid the "shot?"—A. I don't know. I had nothing to do with the financial matters.—Q. Previous to taking part in the meeting on the platform, had you doing anything ?—A. I arranged the malfeer as far as the public meeting was concerned outside?—Q, Who went between you and the men managing the inside things ?— A. I gave orders tor the bills and everything I wanted, but who was going to pay for them, how they were going to be paid for, and who has paid for them, I don't know. (Laughter.)—Q. Mr Cliffe we are getting on now. Are you in the habit of giving orders for bills to be printed, and incurring expense, without knowing or caring who is to pay?—A. No but I have been in the habit of giving orders for bills, and paying direct for them myself, and also giving orders for wliieh others have paid.—Q. Why did you give orders for these bills about the meeting?— A. I received instructions to that effect.—Q. Who instructed you ?—A. I cannot answer that. —Q. Who gave you those instructions ?—A. 1 cannot answer the question.—Mr Sullivan Then I must appeal to the chairman. The Chairman (to witness): I think you must answer. I understand you to say you received instructions to get up tho meeting ?—A. The out- side. The Chairman: Who gave them to you ? Witness here hesitated and coughed in apparent embarrassment, amid much laughter. Mr Bidder: I don't object to tho witness anwer- ing. Witness Well. sir, it was Mr I forget his name—(laughter)—it was Mr—the editor of the Mail. The Chairman: Editor of the Mail newspaper? —A. Yes, sir. Mr Sullivan: Was it Mr Carr? How do you know that the gentleman was the editor, if you don't know his name? The Chairman: The witness is a newspaper correspondent. (Laughter.) Mr Sullivan (to witness): Oh, you are a news- paper correspondent, are you ? (Loud laughter.) Now I ask you again how do you know that the gentleman to whom you gave instructions about the bills was the editor of the paper ?—A. Be- cause when I went into the office I made en- quiries for the editor, aud I was conducted to a gentleman's room by a person who said, "There is the editor,"—Q. Who sent you to the editor of the Mail for the purposes of this meeting ?— A. A fellow-workman and me, burning about this question, went to the Mail office to see if they could do anything for us. I told the editor I was shftrt of means, that I was only a poor man, and could not afford to run up any expense myself in connection with this meeting. He said, Oh, if you want bills, I'll do them for you." (Laughter.) Mr Sulltvan When I asked you a few minutes ago about who was responsible for the bills, why did you not tell me this?—A. Well, sir, you have got the answer now.—Q. Will you tell me this When you began to look for a benevolent editor, why did youselect the Mail ? Was that paper ever owned by the Marquis of Bute or his- people ?— A. Not that lam aware of. Mr Bidder Uh, Mr Sullivan f Mr Sullivan Why did you select the Mail newspaper ?—A. The reason I went there more than to the other paper was because I had seen letters in the Mail showing an interest in the matter in which I was so warm. The Chairman The witness had been writing letters himself occasionally, and was on the look out for anything. Mr Sullivan For an open-hearted editor, sir. Quoting from the South Wales Daily News report of the meeting—" An immense majority of the workmen, it was apparent, were opposed to the labour clauses. Feeling ran somewhat high to- wards the end, personalities being freely indulged in." Witness I cannot understand how any person could give an estimate of the feeling of the meet- ing at all, because the meeting was a scene of confusion. In answer to further questions by Mr Sullivan for the coal trimmer*, Oliff said men of the opposing party came to the meeting on the Ten Acre Field half drunk, and interrapted the pro- ceedings;—Q. Who went with you to the Mail office ?—A. John Morgan, the previous witness, and he heard the editor say he would stand the expenseof the bills. I did not say that I took it for granted that the editor wonld pay.—Q. And about the manuscript of tlfe> bill announcing the meeting, who composed that?—No answer.— Q. Who wrote the bill?—A. Mr Jfobn Morgan.— Q. Who eomposed it ?—A. Mr Oochlin, Mt Jamea Cliff, and Mt John Morgan. (Loud Jawght^r.y. I took the manuscript to the Mail printing works, and f gave drreOtiAUS for the? bills i to be distributed.—Q. Why were some actually posted up en Bute tips ?—A. That miglrfr haw accused throwgh the anxiety tA tihe pcftrf hobbfers in order to remedy the grievaac* they boir suffer under.. Counsel for the promoters ask&d if thetee ques- tions were relevant, Dr. PhttHimores Opr cuse is that these arrange- lhentat wefe entirely Bute ai-rangemerttft, that the movement ef workmen in favour of the biN has been taken under very great pressure brought to i Sear upon them br great people, agents, and under workers, and that it fe. scfr S gonnine move- i ment. i The Chairman: But with regard tor this witness; He says himself that for years he has' been art agitator on this qaestioa that-he has what he eatts ar grievance as i>* this "birfocf-atiokrng sys- l tern," as he terms it. and he has bed.i stirring up* his felTow-workers agitate about it; He says, having a binming cWsfcteto. ventilate4 grievance, he writes » fetter ffo £ paper, and: that afWwards ithe editor of the paper says he* will help hi getting out the bills calling the meeting. He has ColdHis fioW the bills were got out?, and his an- swer.* form.part-of a-sequence. Dr. Plrilliinore: Bub thore & this-fftrtiW ques>- tiou-the character the. paper. It ifr known to advwSate a. particoW interest, and particular vieqtt. Sir J. Bardfey Wilmot ;■ This dbes tmi look Tiko a Bute trustee's arrangement. The chairman and the committee desira to Juiow how evfcleuG* of this kind can prove that the bill would be in- jurious to the trade of the port. The evidence is very strong at present that the trade of the port will be benefited by the dock. I do not see *jow that will be affected by this public meeting. Dr. Phillimore I represent some 1,100 work- men. In matters of this kind workmen are the best judges of their own interests. I say the workmen are in conflict, but the great majority, by far the great majority, are against the bill. The Chairman Will you throw any discredit upon the witness by the line of cross-examination taken by Mr Sullivan or yourself ? Dr. Phillimore: I wish to show that the meet- ing was a got-up one. The Chairman: We have had that. Dr. Phillimore: The point is that the money expended in getting up the meeting was expended not by workmen, but by other parties. The committee adjourned at this point until to- day (Thursday).

CARDIFF WATCH COMMITTEE SUNDAY TRADING PROSECUTIONS. THE IRISH AND THE WELSH. OVERCROWDING PASSENGER STEAMERS. The monthly meeting of the town council as a watch committee was held at the Council Chamber on Wednesday, Alderman Evans pre- siding. There were also present Aldermen Lewis and Elliott, Councillors Trounce, Rees Enoch, R. Bird, T. Rees, A. Fulton, T. Evans, T. W. Jacobs, D. Jones, J. Evans, T. Waring, P. W. Carey, T. V. Yorath, W. D. Blessley, and M. Morgan. The Head Constable reported that owing to the magistrates on the 28th ult. expressing their strong disapproval of the prosecution of small shop- keepers keeping open on Sunday, he had not proceeded against any one for the same offence since. Some of the de- fendants informed the magistrates that they could not keep on the business if not allowed to open on Sundays, which was sometimes the best day in the week. Several were poor, and it ap peared a hardship to the bench to inflict a penalty. It was suggested that he should not summon the poorer classes, but he replied that he must sum- mon all or none. There was- considerable diffi- culty in securing convictions, and in some cases the magistrates declined to punish. Air REES thought that it formed no part of the duty of the bench to teach the council what to do. If the public-houses under the Sunday Closing Act were closed next September, then it would be hardship to the licensed victualler if other trades- men. were allowed to keep open. Mr TROUNCE urged persistence in the course. Already the number of tradesmen so offending were much reduced, owing to the action of the bead constable. The Head Constable said that it was a very 8ld act, and the bench considered that it ought not to be enforced. Mr MOAAAU But there is a penalty also for non-attendance at church. Persons so offendiag can be fined 5s. for every offence. If you put one law in force,, put the other also. I Mr RKJEB That is quite A different matter. Mr Meaui-Ai* said that the same steps had been taken at Swaasea and other places, but the public feeling was strong against it, and it was aban- doned. They would only find that it caused greater trouble in the future. Mr Wheatley, the town clerk, said that the proceedings had been attended with very marked results. Out of the 300 shops that were formerly kept open, there were now from 12 to 20 only. Of course the watch committee could not control the i magistrates. They bad a discretionary power, and the defendants, no doubt, would bring out some special features which would arouse the sym- pathy \>f the bench, and the proceedings probably fail, but in other eases the bench would convict. If the watch committee desired that the matter should go on, the head constable would still pro- ceed against them. Mr THOMAS EVANS If every tradesman in Cardiff opened his. shop on Sundays, would no proceedings be taken against them ? It is a matter of no consequence whether the shops are large or small, and whether one or three hundred. It is the principle we have te consider. Mr MORGAN: Suppose the person is fined; what is the next step ? The Town Clerk: A fine is inflicted, and I think there would be no difficulty with that under the Summary Jurisdiction Act. Mr MORGAN But failing a distress ? The Town Clerk: Failing a distress, the party could be put in the stocks. Mr MOBGAN I Yes, that is the remedy. You cannot carry out the act. Mr ENOCH thought that the town clerk could appeal in cases where the magistrates declined to convict. Mr CAREY pointed out that the few who were sum- moned were widows and old pensioners or some- thing of that nature, who had been found selling sweets or similar articles to children. It was better to let them go on than to allow them to become a burthen to the parish. The large shop- keepers would not object. Mr THOS. EVANS What we contend is that no porsou is justified in carrying on his business on Sundays. Mr JACOBS thought that things might now be allowed to remain as they were. There were but very few shops kept open, and they were small ones. It was not a serious reflection on the morality of the town, as those who kept open seemed only to supply a few small children with sweets, &c. He thought they might well decline to give the head constable any further instruc- tions on the subject. Some people, and especially the working men, might sometimes be put to con- siderable inconvenience in not being able to ob- tain a few things on Sunday morning. Mr ENOCH mentioned that the law-breakers would be found among the foreigners. In the list originally given by the head constable, there was only the name of one Welshman. Mr REUS looked upon it as a matter of principle, and if one shop was allowed open, the whole might. It was not a question whether the shop was small or large. Proceedings had been taken, fines inflicted, and when the magistrates express themselves in the way they did, they express themselves against the law. But they had only to administer the law, not make it or refuse to put it in force. It was a great in- justice to those who closed that others should be allowed to keep o{>en. It was not a question whfether those who kept open were widows or pensioners. If they infringed the law he would bring the law down upon them as readily as upon any one else. They had to cause the law to be put in force, and if they did not do so Cardiff would very soon present a very unlawful picture ou the Sabbath-day. He did not urge this from a Sabbatarian point of view, but on the ground that every man had a right to his one day's rest in seven If he would not respect it voluntarily thoy would make him respect the seventh day, be- cause it was for his benefit. Alderman ELLIOTT felt that they ought not to be taking proceedings against poor widows and old men for breaking the law, when large railway companies were allowed to employ their 60 or 70 men, or even a larger number, every Sabbath- day. Mr CAREY: Could not individuals instigate the proceedings in Sunday trading prosecutions? The Town Clerk: They could. Mr CAREY Then that would relieve the coun- cil of the responsibility. The CHAIRMAN thought as so few were present it would not be wise to ouiae to a decision then, and on his suggestion the subject was adjourned till the next meeting. He did not think that the immorality of the town would be much increased by the few shops now open remaining open a little longer. A charge was preferred by Mr Harrington against P.S. Damm, of the Roath division, for illegal apprehension. He was among a crowd in Castle-road on the 28th June causing, it was alleged, an obstruction. He was conveyed to the police-station, and after being locked up for two hours and a half liberated, the inspector declining to take the charge, which was that of inciting the crowd to resist the police. It appeared that the police-sei-geant was wrong in this, and that he ought to have taken a summons out against Mr Harrington for causing an obstruc- tion. Regret was expressed that a respectable man should have been locked up when ha had not committed any offence, and the police-sergeant admitted that he was wrong; and at the request of the conimittec, he, through the chairman, tendered an apology to Mr Harrington, which was accepted in good spirit, and the matter ended. Mr CAREY called the attention of the head constable to the circumstance that lately disturb- ances had arisen between a few of the Irish and the Welsh, although he was perfectly con- vinced ot the friendly feeling existing between the Irish a.nd Welsh residents of the town generally, and that their good sense would not allow them to commit a breach of the peace. Yet there were in every place a few of the roughs whose action, if not stopped at once, might lead to serious results. This had been the case on one or two occasions, when the collection of a few roughs at particular corners had led to disturbances. He hoped the head-constable would take such precautions as would nip the disturbances in the bud, and pre- vent their swelling until they became a riot. The Head Constable said that he had received numerous letters speaking of disturbances that would certainly take place. He had consulted the Mayor, and had taken every precaution, so that now he was in a position to put an end to any disturbance of the kind at encef. On Saturday evening large numbers of persons began oollecting in various parts, but they were Very good-tem- pered, and when requested to move on, they did so. He did not apprehend amy disturbance, but should any arise he waif prepared to meet itv Mr CABBY thought that a statement going forth fr. m the head constable might have a preventive effect. A letter was read from the Board of Trade directing; the atterftiort of the cewncil te a report they had received from Cardiff that the Steamer Mrfss Rose on Whit Monday left Caflrdift for Weston considerably overladen, and the live's of thfe passengers were in danger. It seemed that she had a oertificate toearry 114 passengers, but according to the information sent to the" Board of Trade she mtfct have had 1-92 on board When she left Cardiff, beside# the drew, Thrf Board of Trade also called- the attention of the cmruoil to the fact that they wars the partite to take the priycesdrnga. Ott the motidn of Mr IX JONES j sKcicmded by Mr JACOBS, thd head constable requested to get up the particulars, and the town- olefrk would take; the proceedings before the magistrates, WiWi reference to the proceedings taken by the late-P.O. Jorie* agjiinst ihe head constable, the trial of wh'ichr though Set down to comte to å1r the' Bristol1 Assizes, the town clerk Was endettvoarihg to get transferred to Cardiff, Mr R. BIRD pro- posed that if the expenses Could not- be paid otit tlie borough fund, they shOuM mdividwally rtsSofve among themselves to pay all costs- mcftrred by" the head constable in defending the Action. This waS: concurred in by ail pwgeenC The proceedings then terminated.

TcWLfc'a PMfNYMyrAt. AND &TKKT,- ,jr(1a¡ quickly oorreota l irrj^nlaa-itiesi MI I retitfvel the' distracting symptom* so prevalent wlthr her. Boxofr 1st 1 £ d aud 2s 9d. of all Chemists. Bent ?#ny wTtfare on receipt of 15 or M stamps by the maker. K. T. W WJUEi Uhemist, {oftWflgluua, IQtU

ARTILLERY VOLUNTEERS AT LAVERNOCK. THE REVIEW DAY. The Glamorgan Artillery Volunteers, on Satur- day, concluded their eight days' camping at the picturesque spot which is known as Lavernock Point, facing the Flat and Steep Holms, and bounded by the sea on two sides. The canvas city is still standing, the operation which is known as striking the tents commencing to- day, under the supervision of Quartermaster- Sergeant Beasley, who, with his subordinates, it may be here remarked, have had a hard time of it is looking after the creature comforts" of the hungry volunteers who looked to them, and not in vain, for the wherewithal to satiate the keen appe- tites which a day's stiff drill on the breezy cliffs is sure to induce. Unfortunately the weather during the week has been wretched, not a day passing without a fall of rain and on one or two occasions there was such a heavy and continu- ous downpour as to justify the suspicion that Jupiter Pluvius was abroad and meant to make the fact known, at all events to the Glamorgan Artillery Volunteers. Under these circumstances our readers will be prepared for the announcement that the camp has had very few visitors during the week, and that the drill and the fun of the citizen soldiers were materially interfered with by a condition of things which involved so disastrous a contretemps as that which is revealed in the old refrain—" the rain it raineth every day." Briefly, the week's record runs thus Monday, gun practice with the 7-inch gun, battalion drill, and rain Tuesday, drill out of the question, a general soaker from morningtillnight, and the men nearly washed outof their tents Wednesday, gun and squad drill and heavy showers, principally the latter; Thursday, fine day throughout, and advantage was taken of the pleasant change to have a hard bout with the guns, and the battalion and squad drill was tackled in good earnest; Friday, athletic sports, more gun and battalion drill, more rain also, but there were longer intervals of fair weather, which induced the reflection about being thankful for small mercies; Saturday, general inspection, very wet in the morning, but cleared as the day advanced, the remaining proceedings only being slightly marred by a slight shower or two, for auld acquaintance sake. It is to the credit of the men, however, that they bore the trials and tribulations of the week's campaigning with soldier-like equanimity, and although they had to put up with a tenting and marching ground which to the imaginative might have re- called Longfellow's stirring description of one of the sieges of the Emperor Charles of Spain: Up and down the dreary camp, In great boots of Spanish leather, These hidalgos, diill and damp, Cursed the Frencbmeu, cursed the weather, there was no repining, aad the situation was accepted as simply pertaining to the ordinary viscissitudes of active volunteering. The elements notwithstanding, it is to be re- corded that some good work was done, and that, recognising the dictum which tells us that all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy," the volunteers did not enjoy their pleasures so dis- mally as might be imagined from the unfavourable atmospheric surroundings. The various battalion drills afforded ample evidence that training and discipline had not been wasted, while the big-gun practiee from the Government fort and from the battery of the regiment was pronounced by com- petent judges— including the inspecting officer who was present on Friday, and took a marked interest in what was being done-to be admirable. One incident may be cited as a proof of this assertion. At the com- mencement of one day's practice the Penarth battery took the flag, which indicated the target, clean- away with the first shot, while the second -struck the boat which did duty for a target. Some equally excellent results were obtained during the week, which elicited the remark from one enthu- siastic and smoke-begrimed gunner that "The First Glamorgan Artillery could have played the —— with the forts at Alexandria, or anywhere else." As to the eveping's amusements, there was no organised programme, the fun being impromptu and got up on "the spur of the moment." However, the most was made of the time, and the intervals of fair weather were seized for out-of-door frolic. The most approved piece of recreation—and it must be confessed that this does not say much for the reverential instincts of the men in camp— was a travesty of the doings of the Salvation Army, the addresses and singing savouring much of Mammon. Indeed the whole proceedings may be described as "of the earth earthy," and enough to shock the moral sentiment of those who do not profess to be Puritanical or straight-laced. It is to be said, however, that no harm was in- tended, and we suppose it will be charitable to remember what Tom Hood has written, Mis- chief is wrought from want of thought as well as want of heart." The health of the camp, despite the unpropitious weather, has been unprecedentedly good, for although large numbers have been present during the week, there were only two cases of slight indisposition—feverish colds- which did not disable the sufferers, and there was no necessity for the hospital tent, which was under the care of Surgeons Granger and Vachell. The conduct of tne volunteers whilst under canvas has been first class, and Col. Hill, we believe, is more than satisfied with the be- haviour of his men under trying circumstances. When the tents were taken possession of a week ago, the acclivity upon which they were pitched was a pleasant green sward. On Satur- day, owing to the incessant rain, it was a perfect quagmire, every blade of grass being trampled out of sight in the pools of mud which it was im- possible to avoid in perambulating the lines of the encampment. To be correct, the camping ground was one vast pool from beginning to end. At five. o'clock in the morniug the ground was as "dry as a bone," but the rain sluices were opened half an hour afterwards, and the torrents which followed soon made the ground as uncom- fortable as it was treacherous. In spite of this untoward state of affairs, there was an excellent muster for the review, and it wa* a constant observation throughout the day that the corps had never assembled in such strength on any pre- vious occasion. One of the Swansea batteries stood on the plateau on Saturday with its full complement of men, not one being aliseut, with or without leave; while another battery from the same town was only four men short, and these were on the sick list. About 380 men occupied the tents on Friday night; but that number was largely augmented on Saturday, when, as the field state discloses, nearly a thousand volunteers were on parade wlieu the trum- peters sounded the fall in early in the after- noon. The officers fell in about half-past two, and then there was the usual proving of com- panies, and all along the hue of formation—the regiment had assembled in Tihe open space which is known as the main street of the encampment, and that portion of the ground which runs at right angles to it, and is situated between the officers' quarters and the orderly-room (which it may be here stated has been in charge of Sergeant Ban- fill) -nothing was to be heard but the voices of officers as they gave the orders, "Number off," Form fours deep, right," etc., etc., which are now so familiar to the ears of civilians as well as soldiers. The men presented a very smart and soldierly appearance, and, although there wfs at first a desire to keep boots and the bottoms of overalls free from mud, this was found to be a literal impossibility, and the best had to be made of a bad job. In spite of the drawback of the ground-it was as slippery as it well could be— the greatest steadiness prevailed, and the various formations were capitally executed. All being ready, the band, under the leadership of Band- master Davis, Cardiff, struck up a lively tune, and then Col. Hill rode upon the ground, and took command of the force. He has a splendid word of command, and his first order, "Battalion, at- tention," rolled clean and distinct over the ground, suggestive of the booming of one of the big guns. The regiment then formed fours, right, and proceeded to a small field- rather too small for the purpose, we thought —in the rear of the church, where battalion drill was gone through. Then the inspecting officer, Col. Cum- mings, inspector of auxiliary forces of the district, rode on to the ground, and the inspection he made of the men and their accoutrements was most thorough. Nothing appeared to escape his atten- tion, and we are sure he must have been very gratified at everything he saw. The men were perfectly quiet, and as ste dy as a regiment of the Guards. The wheeling was exceptionally pood, and the counter-marching was executed with a precision and effectiveness worthy of all commen- dation. The only wonder was that, considering the nature of the ground, the men were able to do a th ree hours' drill which would have done credit to a battalion of the line. The following officers were on parade :-Lieut.- Colonel E. S. Hill, C.B., commandant Lieut.- Col. C. H. Page, Majors Woods and Young, Major and Adjutant Pitman, Surgeons Granger and Vachell, Captains Thompsom, Pratt, Ingram, O'Sullivan, Strina, Ryding, Moore, Hamilton, W. Jones, Tozer, and Aylwin, Lieutenants Trayes, Forrester, Rigg (acting quartermaster), Bassett, Morice, J. VV. Williams, Dalziel, M. T. Jones, Woods, J. E. R. Thomas, and BirrelL The following is the inspection state :— is £ n fc- cso p «S fl 03 a5 M Q. I l it$ C12 Present 28 78 1 83 775 864 Absent with leave 15 8 — 321 359 Absent without leave. — — — — — Total. 45 I B0 j 83 1,117 1,323 Divided into detachments the state shows that from Swansea there were 7 offioers, 11 sergeants, 23 band and trumpeters, and 16& f-ank and file Briton Forry, ♦ offioers, 13 aergea^, and band and trumpeters, and 192 rank am a Cardiff, Penarth, and Bridgend, 17 officers, &0 sergeants, 47. band and trumpeted, itttd 415 tank and file. At the conolusion of the inspection, QaL Ovv. IWIKGMEsid he ha4i been privileged to remain three days in Gamp, and he had taken advantage of that opportunity to make himself acquainted with all the details of thdir drill. He eodild only say that the good orddr ftnd the militate qtlal»ti«S' of the- regiinetit which Cfof. Hill had the- good fortune to command were excfeHent. He did not say that they were perfect. They were to be commended fen ftavifig! come forward in fcher spirit Of patriotism to ck>> th-eir level best, ftnd to sa^rifiee tbeir time, aitd perhaps their money, for their coortitry. Brat, still, to be perfect in carrying otft aft the wstails-of drill and 61 diaciplhre Was, as jtfl intelligent men need hot be told*; only to'be acquired by an amount' 6f practice- whith they, as volunteers, could not1 obtain. It wat not his place to compliment their' colofiel and afficerd before theit men, butt still, if there coirid fee an exctise rifade for such a proceed- itig, it would be forthcoming on & tbltiitefor parade. Their officers gave up a great deal of tiihe, arid engaged ft* etttdy that was ndt alwiryi* congenial, in ordef to be able to instruct their' men, and Relished td e^prestf the liopfe that the! men would, in return, do their utmost to attain j to thorough efficiency. Their artillery practice- had been very satisfactory, and they seemed to have a very good fcnowlfedge of this branch1 of their drilk He would nob be doing .them B iu&tfce if h6 cotnplifbehtep tbfehv tflff [ <$n theif btcttflfioh drill, T&eir officers know theiu; thob; some of their men were at fault, though, o course, they could not be expected to come up to the regulars. But, at the same time, they could read and they could think—they could in their leisure hours acquire knowledge from the drill-book, and then they could imagine what had to be done whey they came on to parade. They should look straight to the front and they should preserve their touch, and if they did this, and did not talk or rub imaginary flies off their noses, they would make a very good appearance on parade. They had behaved very well in camp, and he could only regret that next year he would not haye the same opportunity of being with them, and of enjoying the hospitality of the re- giment. Lieutenant-Colonel HILL said the words of the gallant inspecting officer must have been received by the corps with the greatest satisfaction, and his words of commendation, which were quite in keeping with the opinions expressed by the in- specting officer in previous years, were all the more valuable, because he had not been backward in pointing out the defects. He hoped all would try in future to keep up to the standard of excel-' lence they had attained, and to remedy the faults which had been pointed out to (them. He personally thanked them most sincerely, the members of the corps, for supporting him as they had done by coming into camp in such nmnberfk ftnd he hoped the inspect- ing officer would bear in mind that they had had a most unfortunate week with respect to weather. They had been singularly unfortunate in this respect, for that was the fifth camp they had had in which the weather had been very much against them. He hoped they would not be downhearted, and while he sympathised with them in the hard- ships they had undergone, he looked forward to the sixth camp to be more lucky in this re- spect. The battalion was then marched to the battery, where some shots were fired, in the presence of the inspecting officer and a number of visitors, which were not so numerous as they would have been if the weather had been more settled. Then tea was served out, and afterwards the camp was broken up," and the men returned to their homes, having served their Queen and country for a full week, bent on making that branch of the service of which they have the honour to belong useful as well as ornamental. There was to have been a tent inspection, and a prize was to have been awarded for the best kept dwelling, but this had to be abandoned, as, under the circumstances of wet and mud, anything like a clean tent would have been an impossibility. It should be men- tioned that there were general complaints of the worn-out condition of the canvas, and it was even said, with what truth we are unable to say, that they were condemned for the militia.

A POLICEMAN STABBED AT CARDIFF. Another of those stabbing cases which, un- happily, are only too common in Cardiff, took place on Sunday night. It appears that P.C. Lavender (14) whilst on duty near the Taff Vale Bridge in Crockherbtown, saw a man striking a boy. The constable, naturally, interfered, when the man pulled out a knife and stabbed the con- stable three times in the thigh, the stabs penetrat- ing to the bone. P.C. 59 appeared on the scene, and was attacked by a woman with a bottle, but was not seriously hurt. Eventually two women, with the man, were apprehended, and locked up. It seems that on Sunday the man, whose name is James Geen, or Williams (a breaksman on the Taff Vale Rail- way), with his wife, her sister, and the husband of the latter, were at Rompney Castle, and prob- ably began a spree, which was continued at Car- diff in the evening by Geen and the two women, the other man, who does not live with his wife, having gone to the docks in the pursuit of his em- ployment as a coal trimmer. P.C. Lavender had his wounds dressed by Mr Burgess, assistant to Dr. Taylor. The constable is not considered in in any danger. At the borough police-court on Wednesday, James Geen, a young man, was charged with as- saulting John Darby, and also stabbing and wounding Police-constable Lavender. It appeared that John Darby, who lives at 59, Frederick- street, was, on Sunday night, standing by the old theatre. The prisoner and two women came up, and the man struck him on the eye with an um- brella. The parties walked on, but he followed them to the Alexandra Hotel, when he crossed over, and asked the prisoner what he struck him for. Prisoner then struck him again with his umbrella. P.C. Hoskins came up, and as he saw the blow struck he apprehended the prisoner. Prisoner was very violent, and ne saw them struggling on the ground. Darby ran away, and Hoskins blew his whistle. P.C. Hoskins said that he saw the prisoner strike Darby. He laid hold of him and asked him why he had struck the complainant. Prisoner replied, What the h- odds to you." He then laid hold of the prisoner. A struggle ensued, and pri- soner said that it would take 10 policemen to ap- prehend him. The women joined in, and began striking him with a bottle, when he blew his whistle. Prisoner gave his wife two bottles to strike him with. P.C. Lavender came up, and he (P.O. Hoskins) told him to take the man while he apprehended the woman. He laid hold of the prisoner, who was very violent. They fell struggling to the ground. While on the ground hesaw the prisoner take out his knife and stab P. C. Lavender. P.C. Lavender said that when he came up P.C. Hoskins was struggling with the women. One of them was beating him on the helmet with a bottle. The male prisoner was standing there with his coat off. As soon af he took hold of him prisoner struck him in the face. He then closed, and while they were strug- gling on the ground he felt a stab in the leg. He saw the knife in prisoner's hand. He was stabbed three times in the leg. He called out that he was stabbed, and Dr. Burgess took the knife from prisoner. P.C. Durstan said that be heard the prisoner say that he would rip the policeman -"open. He secured the prisoner and Lavender was then conveyed to the infirmary. -Prisoner, who seemed to treat the matter wii,h perfect indifference, was then com- mitted for trial at the assizes. He applied to be liberated on boil, but this the bench refused.

CARDIFF FREE LIBRARY. The monthly meeting of this committee was held at the Town-hall on Monday, Mr Peter Davies in the chair. There were also present Councillors Proger, Trounce, Fulton, J. Ree*, Messrs Harris, Rondfeldt, W. H. Thomas, Seward, and Dr Vachell. town clerk, Mr Wheatley, was also presentT The balance at the bank was reported to be £23728 lOd. The science and art schools committee recommended the ap- pointment of Mr Farr as assistant teacher to Mr Bush at a salary of £100, Mr Farr to give the whole of his time to the duties connected with the appointment. The free library committee, how- ever, discussed the matter for a considerable time, and resolved to postpone tho cons'deration of the recommendation until fuller il formation was before them, and until some m )ro definite ar- rangements could be made with Mr Bush. The library subcommittee complained that the book- shelves in the new lending library were insufficient for the number of books to be stored. The chief librarian was directed to proceed with the prepar- ations for 0] ening the library as rapidly as possible; that the Indicator aystem" be aban- doned, and that the system in use at the Man- chester Free Library be adopted. A long dis- cussion took place on the amount to which the new free library and its contents should be insured. As the policy was running out, the town clerk had insured the building in the Sun Fire Office and its. contents for £10,000. This was considered insufficient, and it was resolved to insure the building and contents in two fire offices for £15,000. The Town Clerk stated that Mr Menelaus's pic- tures were already insured in another fire office, and they would not be included in the proposed policies.—Mr Fulton proposed that while the building was insured in the Sun Fire Office, the remainder should be insured in some office which contributed towards the cost of the fire brigade when a fire occurred at premises insured at their offices.—A letter was read from Mr G. C. Thomp- son, secretary of the Cambridge University Ex- tension Scheme, asking- for the use of the leoture- room at the new free libraty building for a course of lectures, with classes, proposed to be given during the present season, but the committee re- commended that application should be made to the mayor for the use of the Town-hall, as in for- mer years.—This was all the business.

SERIOUS FIRE AT CARDIFF. A BOAT BUILDER'S SHED GUTTED. Soon after one o'clock on Tuesday morning an alarm was given at the fire-engine station that the services of the brigade were required near the West Dock. The fire proved to be at the estttb- lishment of Mr W. T. Down, boat-builder, ship repairer, etc., Collingdon road, in the main building. The inflammable naturs of the contents caused the fire to burn rapidly, the flames mounting up to a. considerable height, and lighting up the whole neighbourhood. The Buts Dock police soon had their hose at work, but it was powerless to prevent the progress of the fire, which seemed destined to spread to the adjoining workshops, from one of which a new boat and various other things were dragged out. But on the arrival of the steam-fire engine, its great effi- ciency was quickly made manifest. The jets of water were thrown on the fire with such great force as literally to beat the fire out, as well as to ex- tinguish it, and all danger of the fire spreading was soon over. It was nearly an hour, however, before the fire was so far put out as to cause the crowds of sightseers to leave, and then the firemen continued to play on the ruins for some time. The building was completely gutted, nothing but bare walls being left standing. The amount of damage could not be ascertained. Head Constable Hemingway and his brigade once more gave proof of their skill and ability, the capital dis- cipline and ready obedience of the firemen enabling their chief to utilise the capabilities of the engine to the best effect.

CARDIFF BOARD OF GUARDIANS. MISS JENNER AND THE BOARD. The weekly meeting of the guardianswas beJdoa Saturday, Mr C. W. David in the chair. There were also present Dr. Paine (vice-chairman) Messrs Williams, Herne, Plain, Ramsdale, Stephens, Richards, Gibbs, Bassett, Llewellyn, Headford, Smyth, Edward Thomas, David Morgan, W. Adams, H. Davies, T. W. Jacobs, and the Revs. V. Saulez and Buckley, The master reported the number of inmates of the workhouse tobe 392, increase 20. At the Ely- Schools there were 250 children, increase 3- Number of out-door paupers 2,471, decrease 196- Cost of relief £250 2s 8d, decrease £2314ri 5d. The thanks of the guardians were directed to be sent to Mr A. Bassett and Mr It David, Llan- daff, at whose residences the children of the schools had been entertained on two occasions during the week, vehicles being sent to convey the smaller children to and fro. The children ap- peared to have enjoyed themselves thoroughly. The school committee recommended the plan of Mr Bernard, the architect, for the erection of a one-storey building, to provide additional liospital accommodation, and also for altering the present hospital; but as Dr. Sheen, 4he medical officer, had not examined the plans, the recommendation, of the committee was deferred for a week. The Clerk said he had received a letter from Miss Jenner, with reference to the case of Ann Thomas, that was considered and disposed of at the last meeting. She proposed laying the case before the Local Government Board. Dr. PAINE said that it was very desirable to put a stop to these letters they were very insult- to the board, and reflected no credit on the writer. The matter was thoroughly investigated. Miss Jenner was present, and so were the parents, who alleged that they had never in the least complained of neglect of the medical officer. Misr Jenner's statements were directly contradicted by their on many points. There was nothing in their state- ments that would at all justify a charge of neglect. When the case was concluded, Miss Jenner wai asked respectfully to leave the room, and she then went out muttering threats against the chairman. He did not know anything of the contents of the letter. He had not seen or heard anything about it, but for the purpose of putting an end to theM annoyances he proposed that no notice be taken of the letter. Mr THOS. WILLIAMS seconded the proposition, which was carried unanimously. Mr HKRNE The parents of the child seemed te be very much pained that she ever entered theii house. The letter was then put on one side without being read by the clerk. The CHAIRMAN drew the attention of the board to a return just issued by Mr Bircham the Pool Law Inspector of the district, showing the rate- able value, population, etc., of each union. I. the Cardiff Union pauperism existed to the extent of 2'Q per cent of the population. In the Gowet Union, which was a small one, and the population almost entirely agricultural, the per centage wM 2.7 of the population. Cardiff, therefore, occu- pied the second place; Merthyr and Abeystwitt Unions being the same. J lJ some unions the pel centage was as high as 6'7 per cent. of the popu- lation, and tlu average for Monmouthshire and the whole of South Wales was 3 "9. Tho rate- payers would be glad to !e?vrn that with a larjg% and to some extent a migratory, population, pa* perism stood so low in this union. The meeting then separated.

SERIOUS COLLIERY ACCI- DENT AT TREORKY. SNAPPING OF TWO WINDING ROPES 50 COLLIERS ENTOMBED. MIRACULOUS ESCAPES. TREORKY, Tuesday.—To-day, between 12 and one o'clock, a very serious accident occurred at Tylacoch Colliery, the owners of which are Mr Thomas Jones, of Maindy House, Forth, and a limited company. Mr Thomas Thomas, Treorky, a gentleman of great experience in mining matters, aud author of the article, Coal Dust in Mines* and its Abatement," which appeared in the columns of the South Wales Daily News some months ago, is the certificated manager, with Mr John Jones (brother of one of the proprietors) aud Mr David Evans acting as overmen. The colliery is situated within a hundred yards of the Treorky HaiJway Station. The pit is about 140 yards in depth, and lias been in operation foe a number of years—in fact, it is one of the oldest collieries in the district, and is even now known as The colliery," although it is surrounded by many others. At the above-stated time on Tues- day the engineman (Daniel Jones) was signalled by the banksman on the pit's mouth to "wind up." This the engineman did with the usual caution when starting, but the cage at the bottom of the pit, which contained a full tram of coal, had not been wound many yards up before a tre- mendous crash was heard, and the engine was immediately seen by those on the pit's mouth to be reversing and going at a terrific rate. In » couple of seconds the end of the rope, which was attached to the cage at the bottom, was at the pit's mouth, being twisted about in a terrible manner owing to the iate at which the engine was going. In as many seconds more the tail end of the other ropa which was attached to the down-going cane, con- taining an empty tram, was seen to be in the same condition as the other rope, and those around the pit's mouth immediately knew that both the ropes had snapped. They all made a hasty re- treat, as their lives were in great danger. The: ends of the two ropes were playing about with great velocity, knocking large pieces of timber out ot place, and doing havoc amongst the woodwork in the vicinity of the pit's mouth. Fears were en- tertained tor the safety of the engineman, as the engine was still going at the same terrible speed, and the end of the two ropes had by this time boen drawn in the engine- house. It could be heard knocking against the iron roofing. The noise it thus created greatly- resembled loud thunder claps, and it was heard » considerable distance away. After the lapse 01 a few minutes, Mr Thomas, tho manager, came am the scene, and immediately had the presence of mind and courage—as it was with considerable risk only it could be done—to run to the boiler- shed and there turn off the steapn by which the engine was worked. This he successfully did. aad the engine in a few seconds afterwards slackened speed and ultimately stopped altogether. Mr Thomas, accompanied by the banksman, Rees Evans, and others then entered the engine-house, where they fully expected to find the mangled re- mains of the engineman, but strange to relate— and although the machinery was twisted about in all manner of shapes, great pieces of timber constituting beams being broken almost into matchwood, and the iron roof looking as if il had been riddled with bullets—they found tht. enginoman Jones safe and sound, crouching in s corner. He said he was standing on a chair near the valve when the first rope broke, and he, was aJmost immediately afterwards knocked off,, and the rope afterwards broke tlie throttle valve, which no doubt caused the engine to go at such < terrific rate. Attention was then directed to- wards those at the bottom of the pit, and it was soon ascertained that nobody was injured there, and that the two cages lay at the bottom of t.M pit, greatly injured. The colliers working at the facings, which is aboot a mile from the mA" torn of the pit, were as sotm as possible acquainted with the accident, and they then proceeded to- gether to the bottom of the air pit. They were there for nearly four hours before they could be brought up. Great crowds of pfcople were abettt the pit's mouth waiting for the colliers ti, be brought out, which was successfully done tor means of A bowk. Sergeant Chalk and P.C.« Probert and Lewis were on the spot to maintain Order. It will take some days before matters t8ø.\ be put right, as great damage has been ddna lo1 the engine and engine-house.

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