Papurau Newydd Cymru

Chwiliwch 15 miliwn o erthyglau papurau newydd Cymru

Cuddio Rhestr Erthyglau

16 erthygl ar y dudalen hon

[No title]

Summer Song.

•♦ Uses of Recreation.

+» Folly and Fear.

Usefulness.

..— Life. --

—+-Grief.

. A Materialistic Age.

♦ The Nature of Devotion.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-THURSDAY.

Newyddion
Dyfynnu
Rhannu

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-THURSDAY. The Speaker took the Chair at three o'clock. The attendance of members was meagre. Mr. BRODRICK (Under Foreign Secretary) in- formed Sir E. Gourley (R., Sunderland) that no statement could yet be made as to the re- assemblance of the Anglo-American Commission, or ihe differences alleged to exist between the American and Canadian members. Mr. BRODERICK, answering Mr. Provand (R., Glasgow, Blackfriars), said it was the case that, within a few days of the signing of the recent rail- way agreement of April 28th between this country and Russia the Russian Minister at Peking made a demand on the Chinese Government for a con- cession for a branch Railway from a point on the Trans-Manchuria Railway to Peking, so as to con- nect Port Arthur with Peking, and the demand was refused. Papers on the subject could not yet be laid before the Foreign Office vote was dis- cussed next week. Mr. DILLON (U. Mayo, E.) asked and obtained leave to move the adjournament of the House to discuss a definite matter of urgent public import- ance, hamely, the holding of disorderly and riotous public meetings in Belfast, causing the greatest danger to the public peace, and the fear that the proceedings would be renewed owing to the inac- tion of the authories. The religious authorities, he said, which had caused the previous disturbances, were announced to be repeated on Sunday and Monday next, and on Monday there wai to be a Nationalist demonstration, and a counter-demon- stration had been organised for the purpose of creating a riot. He asked that steps should be taken to preserve the peace. Mr. J. OSBORNE, seconded. Mr. G. BALFOUR (Secretary for Ireland) said the Government and the Belfast magistrates were alive to their responsibilities, and would take proper precautions. The hon. member's inter- position in the character of a supporter of law and order would not make the task of the Belfast authorities any easier. The motion was rejected by 125 to 73. The House went into Committee of Supply. On the Vote of £ 5,522,885 for the Post Office, Mr. STEADMAN (R., Stepney) drew attention to grievances of Post Office employes, and moved a reduction of the Vote by Z100, in order to demand an inquiry into those grievances. The men had no confidence in the Committees that had been appointed, because they were not represented on them. General LAURIE (U., Pembroke Boroughs) called attention to the insufficiency of the staff and want of accommodation at Pembroke Dock. They held that it was not an unreasonable thing that the delivery of letters should be so drawn up that the postmen should not be over two hours delivering letters in a street of continuous houses. The de- partment regretted that the staff was undermanned, and when they were asked to increase the staff they pleaded that there was no accommodation for an increased staff. When they were asked to increase the accommodation, then they replied that the matter was under consideration, and they hoped some day or other to provide it. The reply was so vague and unsatisfactory that he had no other means of calling attention to it except in Committee and by placing on the paper a motion for the re- duction of the Postmaster-General's salary, and unless the answer of the Secretary of the Treasury was satisfactory, he should feel bound to press the motion. He moved to reduce the vote by £50. Mr. HUMPHREYS-OWEN (R., Montgomery) suggested that the Treasury could hardly find a better investment of public money than by increas- ing the postal and telegraphic facilities. In his part of the country, where agricultural depression was not so heavily felt as in the eastern counties, everybody knew that if they wanted to induce the population to settle in the country, almost the first thing to provide was postal and telegraphic communication with the rest of the world. He hoped the right hon. gentleman would commune with himsels and would persuade himself that better facilities should be afforded. Mr. HANBURY (Financial Secretary to the Post Office) said the points that had been brought up were not new, They had been discussed over and over again. The postal officials had the fullest right of combination and a right of access to the Postmaster General, the only limitation being that deputations should consist of bona-fide officials of the department and not of outsiders. With regard to letter boxes on mail trains, it would be necessary to place them in charge of Post Office officials, and that could not be done unless it was justified by a considerable amount of business. On a division the amendment was rejected by 158 to 107. The Vote was agreed to as was several others; and progress was reported. HOUSE OF COMMONS. -UTONDAY. LORD KITCHENER AND THE SOUDAN CAMPAIGN. THE DESTRUCTION OF THE MAHDI'S BODY. SPEECHES BY MR. BALFOUR, SIR H. C. BANNERMAN, AND MR. MORLEY. The House then went into Committee of Supply, and the Queen's message in regard to the grant to Lorcf Kitchener of Z30,000 was read by the Clerk at the table. Mr. BALFOUR then said Mr. Lowther, in the earlier hours of last September the whole country was in a mood of anxious, if hopeful expectation. It was known that the long drama of the Soudan, extended over sixteen years; was visibly and surely drawing to a close. That drama is one on which we cannot look back with unmingled satisfaction. It has been marked by some great disasters, by some barren successes, by one tragic event which has stamped itself indelibly on the hearts and memories of the people of these islands (hear, hear). And a question connected with this great drama was. Of what character will be the final catastrophe ? We knew that the enemy whom he had to meet was far superior to us in numbers, that in point of courage and daring they were not inferior to any fighting troops that the world has ever seen (hear, hear),—that they fought with the great advantages accruing from the fact that they were in their own country and that we were divided from our military base by many miles of country and great difficulties (hear, hear). The question, therefore, which we asked ourselves, not without some pardonable anxiety, was whether the superior arms, superior organisation, and the superior strategy of our forces would enable us to bring this long contro- versy to a final and triumphant issue. The fact that the midday sun on the 2nd September saw finally and for ever the power of Mahdism crushed (cheers),—was due above all other things to the genius of the man whom we desire to-day to honour and to reward (cheers). I hope that no gentleman will this afternoon allow the course which he proposes to take on this vote to be warped or modi- fied by any view he may entertain upon the policy of the Government in advancing from Wady Haifa to Khartoum. On that policy sharp differences have divided us in the past. No man will by the vote he gives to-night in any prejudice the views he may take upon these broad questions of policy. Those who would withhold from a successful General his merited reward, not on the ground of military incompetence or incap- acity, but on the ground that he was carrying out a policy of which they disapproved, are in effect saying to him and the gallant soldiers who sup- ported him: You have endured hardships, you have faced death, you have gone on an expedition where defeat meant instantaneous destruction or a slavery compared with which instantaneous destruction would have by far the more happy lot. All this you have done. You have done it with courage, with patience, with perseverance. You have done it to the best cf your ability. We are proud of the skill you have shown. But you have done it in a cause of winch we disapproved, and because we disapproved of it, therefore we with- hold from you the reward which on other grounds you have so nobly and so justly earned (cheers). There is, therefore one question, and one question only, before the Committee on the present occasion —a question of military merit,—and I would ven- ture to say that on this question the country has long made up its mind, and has months ago come to an authoritative decision. My mind goes back to the great banquet held at the Mansion House in the early days of November, in which Lord Salisbury, Lord Rosebery, and the right hon. gentleman, the member for Monmouthshire, all vied with each other in giving lavish praise to the hero of Omdurman (cheers). Exploits, which are praised alike by Lord Salisubry, Lord Rosebnry, and the right hon memberjfor Monmouthshire seem to me to be exploits to which there can be no objection (laughter). I don't know where the, objection is to come from if these three gentlemen are agreed. Other generals, and those some of the greatest history records, have done their great deeds with an army ready to their hands. Lord Kitchener bad in part to create the army with which he worked for he was one of those eminent organisers who from the very beginning made the Egyptian army ll I ly what it is from what it was in the time of Hicks Pasha; and as other generals have shown thei: skill in using to the best advantage their line of communication. We must not contemplate the services of Lord Kitchen merely as the victor at Atbara and Omdurnam. He combined the organisation of victories with the carrying out of the military operations by which victory was ultimately secured. He organised victories and he won them, and of these two great feats the organisations is perhaps the greater (hear, hear). I beg, therefore, to move— That a sum not exceeding £ 30,000 be granted to Her Majesty to be issued to Major General Lord Kitchener of Khartoum, G.C.B., K.C M.G„ as an acknowledg- ment of his services in planning and conducting 11 1 the recent operations into the Soudan" (loud cheers). Sir H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN, who was received with Oppositions cheers, said I rise for the purpose of saying, on my own behalf and on the part of my political friends, that we fully share the estimate of Lord Kitchener's services which expressed in his conduct of that long series of operations which culminated in the capture of Om- durman and the occupation of the Upper Nile. Lord Kitchener deserves all the honour that has been conferred upon him by his Queen and country, and he deserves the grateful recognition of this House (cheers). But when we speak of Lord Kitchener, it will, of course, be understood that we do not imply that the merit is all his. In passing this vote we shall be giving expression to our grateful recognition and admiration of the services of those, whether his own countrymen or the Africans, who fought and endured with him and the distinguished officers who advised and assisted him (cheers). And I would go further, and say that we ought to include them in our warmest gratitude, and give them a larger share of the tribute of praise than is sometimes given to them (hear, hear). I would gladly stop here, but we cannot shut our eyes to the fact that there are some reasons to be adduced for not passing this vote in the full measure that is proposed, and perhaps it is only right, although the right hon. gentleman had, and has, with great propriety from his point of view, hesitated to anticipate objec- tions which may be raised, that I should refer in anticipation to these objections. (Cries of Oh," and cheers). There is the disentombment of the remains of the Mahdi, and their dispeisal under circumstances which involve ignominy upon his memory. (Cries of Hear, hear.") I believe there has been no wavering in the judgment of the British nation upon this matter from the first day till now. The news, when it was received in this country, struck us all with a shock of something like horror. We could hardly believe that such a thing had been done. It was a breach of sound policy, of good feeling—(cheers)—and of good manners. I recall a picture of John Leech, where he represents a fine lady sitting in her room, and her child, a little girl, complaining of the conduct of her brother, says, Mamma, isn't he wicked ? He's swearing." My dear," says the fine lady, "it is worse than wicked. It is vulgar" (cheers and laughter). I believe that is a sufficient illus- tration of exactly the sort of feeling we have. War is war, and war means carnage in any case, but war conducted between savage tribes, or against savage tribes, means excessive carnage, and probably retaliatory carnage to an extent which must be abhorrent to every civilised mind. The only justification for our being in that region of the world at all is that we bring to them, slowly and lamely it may be, and in circuitous ways, civilisation and peaceful development. Let it be an instruction to all our officers, while leaving them perfect freedom of action, that they should conduct their operations as nearly as possible according to the rules of civilised warfare. I be- lieve I have dealt imperfectly with the case, because I cannot anticipate what may be said either in attack or in defence on the matter, but I have at all events laid down some general con- siderations, and I conclude by saying that from these general considerations I see in no criticism that has been applied to this vote anything of such proportions or of such gravity as could be set against the undoubted claim of Lord Kitchener to our grateful recognition, and I therefore shall cor- dially support the vote (cheers). Mr. J. MORLEY, rising amid Radical cheers, said With much that has been said by the First Lord of the Treasury and my right hon. friend I am glad to find myself in very considerable con- currence. The First Lord of the Treasury said in September we were watching the close of the Soudan drama which has attracted attention and often absorbed it for so many years. I wish—and it is the only remark I would make on that aspect of the matter-I could believe that we have seen the fall of the curtain on the five acts of the Soudan tragedy (hear, hear). But to-night, and here I come to the second point in which I am in absolute agreement with the right hon. gentleman-is not the occasion that we can justifiably, in my opinion, enter upon considerations of policy in any aspect whatever. Whatever we may think of the policy Lord Kitchener was the instrument—the able and powerful instrument-of a policy which was im- posed on him by the Government of this country and by this House. Therefore, whatever view we take of that policy, it need not and cannot stand in the way of our appreciation of his military merits (cheers). Upon the question of military merits it would be ridiculous for me to offer any opinion, and I do not propose to do so. I hope the House, which after all is a place that loves fair play, will believe that to nobody can it be more disagreeable than it is to me to use any language or to take up any attitude which may seem, as the First Lord of the Treasury said, to deprive an act of grace of some of its graciousness. But there are other things to think of besides graciousness. The topic to which my right hon. friend began by referring was the destruction of the tomb of the Mahdi and the exhumation and destruction of the Mahdi's remains. The House, judging from the impatience shown in some quar- ters at the introduction of this topic, appears to have forgotten what my right hon. friend reminded them of-the extraordinary feeling of shock and disgust which was aroused in every quarter (some ministerial cries of No," and opposition cheers). Hon. gentlemen who say "No" forget that the right hon. gentleman has so eloquently in no quarter was there more disgust more vividly expressed than in the quarter below the gangway. I will not argue this matter in a way which will offend anybody, but hon. members will recognise that upon this House there is no responsibility, among all those that weigh upon us, that weighs more heavily than the responsibility of supervising y I and keeping a strict and vigilant watch upon what is done by our agents and officers (hear, hear). I rember years ago an eminent public writer said that a Government ought to support its agents in 'difficulties always, in error sometimes, in crime never (hear, hear). I am not going to argue that I would describe this particular transaction as criminal, but I do regard it as one of; those errors which a wise and good man may accidentally fall into, but against him this Hoese is called upon hy its most supreme duty to register an emphatic and formal protest (opposition cheers). I do not belong to the school—if school there be-which would deal out honours and emoluments to good public servants:with a grudging and parsimonious hand, and I certainly am not one of those who are inclined to make no allowance for men called upon to take great decisions in moments of emergency. The Committee will agree that there are military acts which no plea of political necessity can justify. Let us look at this plea of political necessity. The first authority quoted is Lord Cromer. It would be most unbecoming of one to disparage the authority of Lord Cromer, but I would point out that all that Lord Cromer can know upon the politi- cal necessity of this act must be from reports made to him by military authority- I would ask the Committee to listen to another authority who is not inferior to Lord Cromer, or to Lord Kitchener upon this'matter. I refer to Slatin Pasha, who I think to-day has slightlly changed his view. But in an interview that he had in March with a representa- tive of a London newspaper——(cries of name "). It is the London Echo" (some ministerial laughter). I do not know why you laugh. The authenticity of this is not disputed, no matter if it were contained in Punch." Slatin Pasha differed from Lord Cromer, and his authority is higher in this respect than Lord Cromer's. Now look at Lord Kitchener's own position. This is after all the root of the matter. Lord Kitchener said that the destruction of the tomb was poli- tically advisable considering the state of the country, and he gave for a second reason that the tomb was in a dangerous condition owing to the damage done to it by shell fire, and might have caused loss of life. He tells us later that the advice was given him after the taking of Om- durman by Mahometan officers that it would be better if the body was removed; otherwise many of the more ignorant at Kordofan would consider that the sanctity with which they surrounded the Mahdi prevented us from doing so. This step apparently was taken not because Lord Kitchener thought it a political necessity, not because Lord Cromer thought it a political necessity, but because Mahometan officers thought it was politically advisable. Therefore, when you come to test the authority upon this revolting proceeding, pray bear in mind that it was the authority of Mahometan officers (Ministerial cheers). Has it come to this, that on a matter affecting our standard of civilis- ation this House is to take that standard from Mahometan officers ? (loud Opposition cheers). I have no prejudice against Mahometans, but I con- fess it would mark a deterioration of the highest principles that have animated public life in this country for a long time if that is to be accepted, which hon. members opposite seem to desire (Opposition cheers). The Mahdi set a better example, because I believe it is true that the remains of that eminent soldier, Sir Herbert, Stewart, who met his death in the expedition of 1885, and was buried in the Mahdi's territory, are to this day a bsol utely intact (hear, hear). Therefore, the Mahdi and his people paid a respect and veneration to the tomb of a brave enemy which I deplore Lord Kitchener did not think better to do (cries of Gordon.") It may have been politically advisable to make a deep impression on an ignorant people. They are not supposed to have been im- pressed by the Maxim gun, or by the vast exhibition of British power and energy, but I sup- pose the removal of the remains of their dead prophet was to make that impression. "The wrong thing about it," to again quote Slatin, was that it was done stealthily. Had it been held de- sirable to do this, the emirs and chiefs of tribes who still believe in the Mahdi should have been sum- moned, and then, with the utmost publicity, in the presence of all, the bones might have been removed from the tomb and buried elsewhere, showing them that their prophet was nothing but an ordin- ary man; and to do the thing secretly was a great mistake." I have a word to say upon the phrase "removal." Removal is a very smooth and almost elegant expression for what really happened. Was his head not cut off ? (No.) Then what does Lord Kitchener mean when he says that when I left Omdurman for Fashoda I ordered its destruction. This was done in my absence, the Mahdi's bones being thrown into the Nile." Surely there was mutilation. The skull only was preserved (cheers). This is a gruesome topic (Ministerial cheers). Yes, but you are not to escape gruesome topics when your commanders indulge in gruesome proceedings (Opposition cheers). I have no desire to blacken any man's character, but it cannot be denied that the skull was preserved and handed over for disposal (hear, hear). I think that act of taking up the remains of the enemy and dispersing them is not denied. I only recollect two or three cases of the kind in history. The French Revolutionists, in their frenzy, went to the Church of St. Denis and violated the tombs of the kings. Some of those kings had not perhaps deserved much better (ministerial laughter) for one of them—the greatest of them-sent to the monastery of Port Royal and had 3000 corpses ex- humed, so that Louis XI. did not get much worse treatment than he had meted out to others. The journals of this House contain the famous order directing the exhumation of the" carcase" of Cromwell (here two or three Irish members emphat- ically exclaimed" hear, hear," an interruption followed by laughter in all parts of the House). Lord Cromer says the body is now buried at Wady Haifa. Was that in consequence of the feeling excited in this House and in the country ? (Hear, hear.) It may be thought by some these are slight incidents. It will be a very bad day for this country when such ignoble proceeding are treated as trivial, and thought to require no justification (cheers.) Is this House—and here I differ from my right hon. friend (Sir H. Campbell-Bannerman),—is this House or is this House not to have an opportunity to protest against these ignoble proceedings (cheers.) You send your generals and soldiers to civilise savage men. Take care that these savages do not barbarise your soldiers and your generals, and above all, take care that the maxims and standards and feelings of this House are not barbarised (cheers). The more you extend your Empire the more imperative is the duty of exacting from your agents abroad the standards of conduct which we exact at home. It[will be a badjday, indeed, when you have one conscience for the mother country and another for the vast territory abroad (cheers). We must trust those whom we entrust with power in the distant land, and we must steadily insist that that power shall be used in accordance with our own principles of humanity. The voting resulted in a majority of 342 for the grant. Fifty-one followed Honest John."

A Thomas Ellis Scholarship.

Wearisome Verbosity.

. Education of Children Bill.

.. The Teaching Profession.

UniDcrsitp College, ABERYSTWYTH.

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