The Aberystwith Observer

LLANBADARN. PETTY SESSIONS, WEDNESDAY, before J. 1. Morgan and Mr B. E. Morgan. Alleged Cruelty to a Horse.—James Albert Binns, ginger beer manufacturer, Llanbadaru-road, was summoned by John Ball, Royal Society of Preven- tion of Cruelty to Animals, Carmarthen, for having cruelly worked a horse whilst in an unfit state at lycach, on the 2nd May.—Mr Joseph Evans ap- peared for defendant.-P.C. 13 (Hughes) said that about seven o'clock in the eveniDg of the 22nd May he was on duty on the turnpike-road, and saw a horse coming'along at a trot from the direction of Bow Street, and near Rhydtir. Defendant and a servant jumped down after passing witness near Tycoch, and he noticed tbat the horse was weak, and from its appearance seemed > be suffering frona wounds. Ou going op the hill defendant assisted the horse by pushing the cart. He asked the de- fendant to stop the horse as it appeared to be suf- fering from great pain, and he then examined the horse, finding a wound on its back about the size of a penny. There wa* also bloed on the hoof aud. near the hind leg, and a wound about the size of a sixpence en the fetlock of the off hind leg. The wound on the back discharged matter, and the saddle rubbed the wound. The horse belonged te Mr Garner, Terrace-road, Aberystwyth. When he spoke to defendant he said he did not know the state of the horse until he was at Borth, and be would be the laet person to work a horse in an unfit cotditioa. He saw the horse in a field near LlaB. badarn on the 28th May. The wound was still oa the horse's back, but not so much imflamed as on the 22nd. Cross-examined, he had given evidence against Henry Wright, Mr Garner's servant; at the Town Hall, Aberystwyth, ia a case relating to the same horse.—Wm. Davies, a lad in the employ of defendant, d-posed to going with him to Bortb oa the day in question but be saw no wound when the saddle was removed, but he bathed it on ceming home, by defendant's orders.—Mr Evans addressed the bench, contending that there was no evidence of intentional cruelty to the animal, as required by the statute before a conviction could be obtained.— The bench dismissed the case on the ground that there was no intention to cruelly illtrbat the horse but defendant must pay the costs. Temporary Transfer.—The license of the Druid Inn, Goginan, was temporarily transferred from the late MrNichelfe to his widow. Theft.-Margaret Davies, Llanbadarn, was charged by Morgan Thomas with stealing two gold rings, of the value of 30s—Mr H. Hughes, who ap- peared for defendant, said that a material witness had not come down, and he applied for an adjourn* ment till the next sessions.—Deputy Chief Constable Lloyd opposed an adjournment outba ground that he was prepared to go on with the case, and the Quarter Sessions were to be held next week.—Tha benob decided to proceed.—Elizabeth Jane Thomas said she was the wife of the proseeotor, and lived at Cwmerfin. On the 12th ult she poasAjsed two gold rings, which she wore that day. She took them off, as she going to wash, and placed them on a hook of the dreseer in the kitchen. She saw them there about two o'clock. The defendant came into the room where the rings were between three and four o'clock in the afternoon. Sh" stayed there some time, witness having laid down on a settle with a headache, where she dozed. On awakening she saw defendant standing within the reach of the rings. Witness's mother keeps a grocer's shop, and defendant asked for two pounds ef sugar. She missed the rings about seven o'clock on the evening of the same day. The two gold rings produced were those she lost. There was her mother, herself, her husband, and child living in the house.—In cross-examination, witness said she was asleep when defendant first came into the house. There was a person named Ellen Evans washing in the back kitchen that day, and there is a door between the kitchen and the back kitchen. Ellen Evans was backwards and forwards to the kitchen, and witness heard a conversation between the defendant and Ellen Evans. She was not surprised to see the defendant as she came there frequently, and she never missed anything on a former occasion. De- fendant had always borne a good character. She was knitting a stocking when witness first saw her in the shop.—Morgan Thomas, the husband of last witness, identified the rings as the property of his wife.-P.C. Joseph (12), stationed at Goginan, said he proceeded to Llwynantrysni, on the 13th inst., where defendant was in service, and enquired for her from her master, David Morgan. He called her from upstairs he said, Margaret, come down here there is a policeman wanting yeu." She came down in about five minutes, and said, What does the police want with me; I have done no barm." Witness asked her to come outside, and there enquired if she had been to Cwmerfin shop the previous night ? She said she had been there for some sugar. He asked her if she had seen two gold rings, and the said she did not. He told her that two rings had been lost from Morgan Thomas's shop, and she replied, Does Elizabeth Jane say that I took them ? If she does, I'll come up with you to her and get her punished for saying such a thing." Witness asked to be allowed to search her, and she consented, turning her pocket inside out, and be found nothing. By permission of her master, witness searched the house, and in her bed- room he found the two rings now produced, which had been identified by prosecutrix and her husband; be found them on the wall under the sill of the win- dow, where they were concealed. Before witness pulled them out, defendant said, "It's there where they are." She began crying, and said she had never done the like before. Witness took her into custody, and charged her, to which she made no answer.—In cross-examination, witness said defen- dant did not say, in the presence of David Morgan, that she had some knitting in her hand and that she put the rings in her pocket with the knitting without being aware of it; but she had assisted Ellen Evans to lift up the tab. The accused did not meet meet him on the stairs and hand him the rings. David Morgan was out when witness went upstairs; but he was in the kitchen when they came down. Mr Thomas, watchmaker, told witness the rings were worth about 12s.—Mrs Thomas said she paid X2 for them two years ago.—Mr Hughes admitted that his client took the rings, but while knitting, Ellen Evans asked her to help her to put the wasking tub en the bench. She was examining the rings at the time, and in order to give assistance placed the rings and knitting in her pocket, and forgot all about them. She did not go home till 11.30 or 12 o'clock at night, and when going to bed she suddenly remembered about the rings, and it being then late determined to return them next morning. He wished for an adjournment to prove that Ellen Evans saw defendant put the rings and knittiag in ber pocket together, and also other evi- dence as to how defendant spent ber time Ion the evening in question.-The defendant pleaded guilty, and the bench, taking into account her previous good cbaracter,|fi ned her £ 5 and costs. Another Charge of Perjury,—John Job Watkina, of Penllyn, near Towyn, was charged with com- mitting wilful and corrupt perjury in a case heard at a previous sessions here.—This charge arose out of what is now becoming a celebrated affiliation oase. The Accused was adjudged to be the father of the illegiti- mate child of one Jane Davies, and was ordered to contribute 28 a week. He thereupon took proceed. ings against the girl and a witness named Mary Evans for perjury in certain important particulars, and they were both committed for trial at the next assizes.—Mr J. T.Jenkins (Messrs Griffith Jones and Co.), prosecuted, and Mr Millard, of Dolgelley, defended.—Mr William Williams,clerk to the juatices, deposed that at the April sessions the defendant swore that he did not see' Jane Davies or Mary Evans at the Towyn railway station on a particular occasion, and that he did not put his hand on Jane Davies's shoulder and tell her not to say that he watt the father of her child, and he would give her moBey. -The prosecutrix,Jane Davies, and Mary Evans now gave similar evidence to that which they gave when the affiliation order was obtained, and which formed the subject of the charge cf perjury against them.- For the defence, Elizabeth Edwards, William Edwards, and Owen Owens. all of Towyn, were called, and at the close of the case the bench com- mitted the accused for trial at the next assizes. allowing bail, himself ia £ 3d, and one surety in £ 20. Mr Richard Jeiet, Tycoch, Darowen, farmer, beow9 lamr.

ABERYSTWYTH COLLEGE. DEPUTATION TO LORD CARLINGFORD AND MR MUNDELLA. IMPORTANT SPEECHES. K5n Monday afternoon a numerous and influential deputation on the subject of higher education in Wales had an interview with the Lord President of the Council, Lord Carlingford, and Mr Mundella, Vice-President, at the Privy Council Office, White. hall. The deputation especially represented the claims of the University College at Aberystwyth, and was introduced by Lord Aberdare. Its purpose was to urge the permanent continuanoe of the Government grant, and that the College might, on Is similar footing to the one at Cardiff, be recognised "3& one of the Government Colleges for Wales. Amongst the gentlemen present were Viscount JEmlyn, M.P., Messrs L. P. Pugh, M.P., H. Richard, M.P., S. C. Evans Williams, M.P., David Davies, M.P., W. R. H. Powell, M.P., Samuel Holland, M.P., T. L.Jones-Parry, M.P., W. Fuller Maitland. M.P., Steart Rendel, M.P., Mr Lewis Morris Mr Urinley Richards Mr George Thomas, mayor ot JLIaaidIoes Colonel Pryse,.Lord Lieutenant of Car-, diganshire Mr John Jenkins, Llanidloes Mr A. M. Dunlop, Ffestiniog; Mr J. Jones, mayor of Aberystwyth Alderman Williams, Messrs J. Pell, Peter Jones, John James, and Vaughan Davies, Aberystwyth Mr J. F. Roberts, Manchester Mr (Stephen Evans, London; Mr John Thomas {Pencerdd Gwalia); Rev J. G. Davies, Bala, Rev H. Hnghes, Oxford Mr Pugh Jones, London Mr A. Sumner, London, &c. A memorial was presented, a copy of which has already been published in our columns. Lord Aberdare, in introducing the deputation, first called attention to the importance and repre- sentative character of the deputation, which in- cluded many cumbers of Parliament for districts Interested in the question, and stated that this was the first opportunity they had of presenting the claims of Aberystwyth to the Government. An attempt hfJd been made at Chester to have the claims of Aberystwyth considered along with the rest of North Wales. Nothing could be more moderate than the suggestion then made. It was proposed that a committee should be appointed with power to decide this question, that this com- mittee should consist entirely of gentlemen connec- ted with Not th Wales, and that the question of whether the claims of Aberystwyth were sufficient to induce them to adopt it as a College for North Wales should be submitted to that body. He was eorry to say that that very moderate offer was not accepted. That might be due in part to what one might think the rather narrow patriotism of those who considered North Wales only as interested in this matter, and it was also due to some misrtpre- mutation on the part of a person who bad consider- able weight and authority in North Wales-misre- presentation as to the sectarian character of the col- lege, which he (Lord Aberdart). as knowing how the College was conducted, was prepared to say bad 110 foundation in fact (hear, beat). In stating the ealle of the prt sent deputation, be feared that he rofcr to one fact which was as well known to Lord Carlingford and Mr Mundella as to himself, tia., that this University College at Aberystwyth was the outcome of an earnest effort on the part of Welshmen to repair a defect in their national scheme of education, and to found a system of giv- leg higher education in Wales upon moderate and economical terms. Subsequently, when the drain on the capital funds of the College was found to be considerable, an appeal was made on its -bebalf to all Wales and he (Lord Aberdare) at. tached the utmost importance to that appeal. The sum obtained in response was not in itself consider- able but it was the first time that this question, and the needs of Wales, were brought before the people indeed, there wis hardly a parish in Wales in which the subject was not discussed. A sum of about -66,000 was thus raised, Iron. an im- mense number of persons, with a view of providing the means of carrying on the College without breaking into the capital ot endowments. But the main result of that endeavour was to enlist public interest, and it was important to notice, not so much the sum raised, as the amount of public interest which the movement evoked. He thought he might attribute to that, as well as to the existence of this College, the fact that very soon afterwards Welsh- men united in an effort to get the whole subject of the insufficiency of higher education in Wales dealt with. It was well known that a Departmental Com- mittee was appointed during the time that Earl Spencer occupied the office of Lord President, and that Committee inquired fully inte the subject. The inquiry, conducted by that Committee in every county ot South and North Walrs, excepting Rad- norshire and Flintshire, had the effect of attracting public attention to the subject, and making the Welsh people more aware than ever they were before of the extent of the deficiency. The Departmental Committee thought it right to soggest that, not one, but two Colleges would be required for Wales. It was further suggested that the one for South Wales should be either at Cardiff or Swansea, and that the other should be at a town in North Wales. He need not say any more there about South Walts, but the subject of a College for North Wales was taken up with most laudable in- terest b) the inhabitants, and a very large sum had been collected but there was a large number of persons who desired that the question of the desir- ablenessofbaving the College at Aberystwyth should be thoroughly sifted and examined before any final decision was come to. If the one argument to be brought forward was the fact that already there was a College there actually in existence he would «ot bring this question forward, but be thought there would be a great public advantage to North Wales if Aberystwyth were selected; at,allevents it should not be exeluded from fair and full con- sideration. The Aberystwyth College bad already had an existence of some twelve years, during which it had to struggle with great difficulties, and frQQa these difficulties it appeared at the present moment to be merging. At the time when the Committee's enquiry was being conducted, and before the State had shown any interest in the fortunes of Abeiyst wyth, the number of students there was only 56 or 57, but at this moment tbe number was 83, and the College had just made arrangements by which it was expected there would be an accession ot thirteen atudents, making 96. This showed the increasing interest taken in the College, and also the increasing confidence in its value. It was housed in a building admirably suited for the purposes of instruction, with BMny large airy rooms, and there was a museum adapted for teaching those natural sciences in which the Welsh people were beginning to take so warm an interest. Over and above that, there was an endowment as to which he believed that if it were settled thac the North Wales College was to be at Aberystwyth there would be no difficulty in persuading those who had given funds to hand them over to the benefit of that College. Wherever a College was placed in Nerth Wales it must be, from .geographical CtroomstaBoes, inconvenient to a very large number. The main population of North Wales was situated around the outer circumference of a large mass of mountains. Whether Bangor or Carnarvon on the one side, or Denbigh or Wrexham on the other, was chosen, the site must be incon- venient to a considerable number. There was no large town in North Wales which could of itself secure the attendance of a large Bumber of local students. The greater proportion of those who at. tended would come from a distance but supposing the College to be fixed at Aberystwyth about JE25,000 would at once be relieved- for the impor- tant purpose of founding scholarships and bursaries. If there was absolute unanimity of feeling on the matter in North Wales against Aberystwyth, it might, perhaps, be presumptuous 18 them to attend as a deputation; but this was far free being the casp, as shown by the influential and widely representative character of the present deputation It was furthermore said j 'b respect to this College, inasmuch as a very large portion of South Wales lay a great distanee College at Cardiff, it was not at all impro- bable that many would prefer to go to Aberystwyth rather man to Cardiff, which might be more expen- sive. There waa a very large portion of South Wales and a considerable portion of North Wales in favour of this view, but what they appeared there to-day for was not so much to ask the Government to insist opon. Aberystwyth being the site for the College, but to secure a fair and full consideration of the subject (hear, hear). They understood that Lord Carlingford, Mr Mundella, and Lord Bram- "Well were going to arbitrate between the claims of the different places in North Wales. He did not know how far they were boand to consider only -worth Wales, bat, eonsidtrisg the part Aberystwyth I had already played, considering the claims it had already on the national pride, and considering the other reasons he had mentioned and adduce us 10 the advantages of accepting it as the site for the College, he ventured to say that the claims of Aberystwyth ought not to be set aside without full and ample inquiry (hear, hear). How that inquiry was to be conducted and how settled it was not for him to say. That was for the Government to con- sider and determine, and he was sure tke Govera- ment in a matter of this sort would arrive at an equitable conclusion—(hear)—and that their action would not be finally determined upon until the claims of Aberystwyth had been thoroughly well considered (hear). They were not representing se- parate interests, but were working in a cause which concerned the good of every Welshman and what- ever might be the decision and the ultimate result of their efforts they could safely say that no angry feelings or reflections would be left behind, and they would all strive to do the best they could for the ultimate good of everyone (hear, hear). Mr Jones-Parry, M.P., most earnestly and respectfully urged the claims of Aberystwyth to consideration upon many grounds,, and he con sidered that it had a fair claim for an additiona- grant. 1 Lord Aberdare interposed, and said that it had been generally agreed that the deputation was not to enter into that question. Mr Jones-Parry said, that being so, be would not further refer to the matter, but he hoped that, with- out any prejudice to other localities the claims of Aberystwyth would receive proper attention (hear, bear). His countrymen, whom he need not say represented the original inhabitants of this island, had rendered themselves illustrious in early history, and Lord Bramwell would tell them that they had been orderly and well behaved. They had had to shut up their gaols because there were no criminals to go into them. Scotland had large grants—(a voice: £ 40,000)—and they in the Principality con- sidered that they had not as yet a proportionate sbare in those benefits, and they respectfully asked for them. Lord Aberdare said he must beg the bon. member to keep to the practical question before them— namely, the claims of Aberystwyth to be con- sidered. sidered. Mr Pujth, M.P., said that the case, as represented by Lord Aberdare, was self-evident, and spoke for itself. He thought, upon common grounds of fair- ness, they were entitled to be heard where their in- terests were so largely affected by the removal of the College to another site. But there was still another question with reference to the arbitration, and that was a question which had not as yet been submitted, aBd upon which he was not very clear. Were it simply the question as to which would be the best site in North Wales for a College if one did not exist, ,he might fairly be induced to believe it would be, perhaps better than Aberystwytb, but then they had the report of the Depart- mental Committee before them, and that in some particulars they were bound to follow. There could be no doubt that the report pointed to taking the grant from Aberystwyth and giving it to some other College in North Wales, and surely, in common fairness and justice, those who were in- terested the most in the matter should be heard before any such step was taken. Mr Mundella said that was only a temporary matter pending the settlement of the question, and he hoped that would be clearly understood. Mr Pugh said he did not venture to suggest that the Government intended to do anything in opposi- tion to the report of the Committee. The report was very precise upon one point, that the College at Aberystwyth was to be the College for North Wales until removed to another site. Mr Mundella said that was the ease. Lord Carlingford thought they need not dwell upon tbal. Mr Pugh then pointed out the existing advan- tages of Aberystwyth, and said that when the col- lege for South Wales was fixed at Cardiff the site was taken in preference to that of Swansea, because there was a larger surrounding population and it was thought to be a better place for a college for Glamorgan and Monmouth. Lord Carlingford said be certainly could not follow that argument. Lord Aberdare thought the hon. member ought not to attempt to interpret the objects of the De- partmental Committee. Lord Carlingford said Cardiff was selected as the site for the South Wales College, and North and South Wales had their distinct and defined geo- graphical positions, and they must be so accepted. He thought at the present moment they had no- thing to do with South Wales in considering this question. Mr Pugh said the words were, "Whether main- tained on its present site, er removed to Carnarvon or Bangor, it must be accepted as the College for North Wales." He should be exceedingly sorry to misinterpret the views of the Committee in any way, but it did seem to him a'strange view to take, that if a College was established at Aberystwyth and one at Cardiff the one at Cardiff was to be the Col- lege for the whole of South Wales, and that students in the neighbourhood of Aberystwyth would have to go to Cardiff. They had the six counties adjoining Cardiganshire all unanimous in favour ef the olaims of Aberystwyth being fairly and fully tested before the removal of the College. They had Pem- brokeshire, Merionethshire, Breoonshire, Carmar- thenshire, Radnorshire, and Montgomeryshire, all for Aberystwyth. Mr Mundella Pembrokeshire, Breconshire, and Carmarthenshire are all in South Wales. Mr Pugh I found my argument on this, that the inhabitants of these seven counties—two in North Wales and five in South Wales-are unanimous in the expression of their view. Mr Stuart Rendel: I am here to speak for Mont. gomeryshire, and I should not venture to claim unanimity. I cannot allow it to be said that Mont- gomeryshire is unanimous on the side of Aberyst- wyth. Yiscount Emlyn: I am the representative of Car- marthenshire, but I. only speak for myself. Lord Carlingford These South Wales counties cannot claim to be entitled to two Colleges. Mr Pagh All I say is, that the inhabitants of these counties—I do not answer for their being unanimous—are in favour of the objeet of this de- putation tojrour lordship (hear, hear). If I said more I did not properly convey my meaning. The counties, as counties, support the object of this de. putation. I have myself taken the trouble of ascer- taining the views of every single member of Parlia- ment representing these seven counties, and I think every one «f these is in favour of tile views of this deputation being urged upon Lord Carlingford and Mr ifundella. The only one I ought to make any exception of is Lord Kensington, who said he aid not Wish to intertere in the matter, as he was a member of the Government. Lord Carlingford Seven counties are in your favour, of which two are in North Wales. Mr Mandella: And of which four touch North Wales. Several Members: They are in Mid Wales. Mr Pugh remarked that they might call it Mid- Wales or Central Wales but there was this to be remembered, that, although the divisions between North and South Wales might be fairly well-known, still it was an artificial boundary, and by no means an ancient boundary (hear, hear). It was not a Welsh boundary. The division of Wales was always different from this, and tbey, as Welshmen, knew nothing of this distinction. In whatover way they put the matter it remained the fact that the inhabi- tants of this aTea were, he ventured to say, in favour of Aberystwyth being retained. That, however, was not the view that the deputation were there to press. He might have been going too far in men- tioning it, but they were undoubtedly in farour of this—that the claims of Aberystwyth should be fairly considered before any adverse decision was come to (cheers). He aftked the attention of Lord Carlingford and Mr Mundella to this also That, while the population of Glamorganshire and Mon- mouthshire, amounted to 723,046, all compact and close together, the population of the whole of the rest of Wales was just 848,222, and that was well scattered over its area, and thus represented a smaller feeding ground far the College. The whole population of North Wales was 480,053, and if they took from it 120,590 (the population of Mont- gomeryshire and Merionethshire), that would re- duce the number to 359,463. But was it to be said that North Wales, with such a population, was to have the same amount of educational facilities as the whole of South Wales? It did not appear to bim to be reasonable. Taking it tbat four counties of North Wales were in favour of excluding Aber- ystwyth altogether from consideration, they had still Cardiganshire and the adjoining counties, which gave a population of 488,000 supporting this deputation, as a^aiuat 359,463 who would have it ignored. There would be presented memorials from Breconshire, Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire, Merionethshire, Montgomeryshire, Pembrokeshire, and Radnorshire on this point. He would not read these petitions, but he relied upon them as showing the feeling in those counties. He believed there were over 80 of these memorials, He was not clear as to what the terms of the reference to the arbitra- tors were, but he was quite certain of this, that Lord Carlingford and Mr Mundella, as representing the Government, would not undertake a reference which was to decide the giving of the grant to Aberystwyth or to some other place without allow- ing Aberystwyth to be heard in the matter (cheers). He believed that when the view of the Departmen- tal Committee was expressed upon that point their contemplation was that the College was to be the College for North Wales, whether it was removed to somewhere else or not. Surely it was idle to say that any Government in the world would become parties to the removal of an institution like this without allowing the people interested in it to be heard in their behalf. Mr Mundella: You are heard now. Lord Carlingford That does not require to be insisted upon after what is going on at the present moment, Mr Pugh I should have a number of details and arguments which I should venture to urge at any future opportunity in support of the claim of Aber- ystwyth, but I do not take up time with this. I venture to say, with great respect, that a deputation of this kind received at three o'clock in the after- noon, and Parliament sitting at four, can hardly be reasonably told that unless they make good their claim in the course of an hour this is all the con- sideration they will receive. Lord Carlingford There is no reason to dwell upon that at all. Mr Pugh: I put tbe request before you that the arbitrators should consider the claims of Aber- ystwyth. Lord Carlingford We are not here as arbitrators in any way we are here as President and Vice- President of the Council, and it is only in that capa- city that we receive the deputation. Mr Pugh: That is so I know perfectly well that, Lord Bramwell not being here, I could not address any remarks to you as arbitrators. Lord Carlingford: The arbitrators do not decide the question that will be submitted to them, but those who submit it. We are not here as arbitrators. We have nothing to do with the arbitrators. Mr Pugh I am speaking to Lord Carlingford and Mr Mundella as representing the Government here, but I cannot thut my eyes to the fact that Lord Carlioglord and Mr Mundella have taken a certain reference as two out of three arbitrators to decide a certain question. Mr Mundella I beg pardon. The Government have to decide where the College shall be. We have only agreed to decide as between these various claimants is to whether any of their sites should be accepted or not. Mr Pugh You are to decide whether one of these sites is acceptable. Mr Mundella When we have all the sites before us, we shall decide which to represent to the Government as the most suitable. Mr Pugh No doubt the decision of the arbitra. tors and the decision of the Government will be one and the same. Therefore I press upon the Govern- ment that some steps should be taken by the Govern- ment in order to enable us to be heard before the arbitrators, otherwise we shall have oar case judged against us in our absence. Lord Carlingford: My time is limited, and I must ask for brevi y. I Mr Pugh I shall say nothing more after that; but I ask the Government to take steps to have another question referred to the same or another tribunal, namely, whether this College should be removed from Aberystwyth or not. Mr Samuel Holland, M.P., said the people of Merionethshire, whom he represented, were strongly in favour of Aberystwyth. They had already con- tributed towards it, and were ready to continue to do so. There was a great desire' amongst the people to improve themselves by education, and he knew of instances of poor quarrymen who had managed to send their sons to Oxford and Cambridge. Mr Mundella remarked that he knew of such instances. Mr Dunlop, Featiniog, said the people in his locality were all in favour of retaining the College at Aberystwyth, aed he thought they ought to be heard before tbe arbitrators. Viscount Emlyn, M.P., said it seemed to him that the object of the deputation was to press upon Lord Carlingford and Mr Mundella, not the strong points in the case for Aberystwyth, but that, before any decision was come to by them and the Government with reference to a site for the College for North Wales, the case for Aberystwyth should be gone into aa fully aud clearly as the case of any of the North Wales towns would be gone into (hear, hear). It was not their intention to go into that case now. But their contention was that their case was a very strong one indeed, and they pressed upon the arbitrators and the Government that Aberystwyth should be given exactly the same opportunities of being heard as would be given to those who repre- sented the towns of North Wales (cheers.) That was a very fair and moderate request. Mr Richard, M.P., said that those who had been concerned in the establishment of the College at Aberystwyth would look with extreme repugnance at its being altogether given up after the remark- able display of zeal, liberality, and labour in this question atter having collected some .£50.900 to -660,000 after having acquired a building that was exceedingly well adapted for the purpose of such a college; after having brought together an excellent library and museum after having secured the ser- vices of a staff ef professors that were very com- petent and very efficient, and after having done educational work of a very honourable kind, as the report of the principal recently published showed. It was very natural that they should shrink from the idea that all they had done should be scattered and dispersed (cheers.) What they were anxious to urge upon his lordship and Mr Mundella was this, that they should if possible in their double capacity as representing a department and also having to decide this question, by arbitration open tho door for Aberystwyth to some in and fairly state its own claims (cheers.) It might be said that the North Wales people had already foreclosed this question by the course they took at Cheater, but the North Wales people came to that foregone con- elusion under the influence of an entire misappre- hension—namely, that there was an attempt being made to force them to accept Aberystwyth. Many who attended the conference had admitted that they decided the matter somewhat haitily and rashly, and did not adequately take into account the claims of Aberystwyth. If Lord Carlingford and Mr Mundella would render the deputation that service, that when the claims of the various plates were argued before them Aberystwyth should be allowed to state its own case, that was all they. asked (hear, hear.) Mr David Davies, M.P., said he had very little education himself, and be, therefore, sympathised very much with this movement. He had given some thousands to this College, and he was very anxious that its claims should be beard. They knew that.it had a good case. He would not press its merits now. He put them before the conference at Chester, but they would not hear them. The deputation would be perfectly satisfied to leave the matter with the Government. Mr Samuel Morley, M.P., said he was there as representing some rather large English contributors to Aberystwyth College. He had visited it twice. Its situation was magnificent, and the buildings admirable. Looking at the substantial character of the institution as a great educational undertaking, the question which the deputation had been raising was one which deserved consideration from the Government. If there had been any mistake in the terms of the reference to the arbitrators they ought to endeavour in the proper quarter to have the powers of the arbitrators enlarged, so that they might be able to say whether this great expenditure, not only of money, but of personal endeavour on the part of a great number, was to be thrown away without having its claims heard. Mr Stuart Rendel, M.P., testified to the great interest which Montgomeryshire takes in the Aber. ystwyth College, in which its sympathies and in. terest, were, he said, cpntred. He had attended the Chester Conference, and had made every effort to procure a hearing for Aberystwyth, and he knew, from personal knowledge, that Aberystwyth had failed to obtained a hearing hitherto. The majority of the representatives of North Wales had not afforded aa opportunity for the reasonable claims of Aberystwyth to be represented at all, and they were, therefore,bound to have recourse toLordCarlingford, Mr Mundella, and the Government to obtain for Aberystwyth what it had a right to (cheers). Lord Carlingford, in reply, said The facts of the ease make my answer for my own part and on the part of my right hon. friend a very simple one, be- cause they limit it-limit it very closely indeed. In the first place I must repeat again that we are here representing the Government, absolutely indepen- dent of any question of arbitration (hear, hear). There is no question of three Goveinment-aided colleges in Wales. I do not think that has been suggested to-day, end if it had been it would have been necessary to say that that could not be enter- tained that the decision of the Government is final -that they are prepared to give a certain amount to support two Colleges, one in North and one in South Wales. The site for the College in South Wales has been decided upon, and a body, that I must assume to be a fair and largely representative body of North Wales, meeting in conference has decided to refer to certain arbitrators, of whom it happens that my friend and myself are two, the pe- titions in reference to the site which will be the best for JJorth Wales, and they have formed that refer- ence deliberately after discussion within their own body in a way so as to exclude Aberystwyth, and also Chester. The reference to the three arbitra- tors is as between certain places in North Wales, North Wales having stated a defined meaning which we all understand. I certainly cannot say that we shall attempt to dictate to that conference and com- mittee as to the terms of their reference in fact we have accepted them already. That is done. We have accepted that reference, and have undertaken that very onerous and delicate duty, and it would be impossible to say now that we shall only undertake the reference on the condition that, contrary to their own decision, Aberystwyth was to be included in the inference. But there remains another ques- tion I fully admit. I do not deny it for a moment -there remains the duty of the Government (cheers). The advice that we upon this point may determine, after we have heard all parties, to give to the Prime Minister and the Treasury, no doubt that remains (renewed cheers). We have shown our willingness not to exclude the claims of Aber- ystwyth by the fact that we have received you to- day, and I am perfectly willing to say that we shall consider it our, duty in future to listen to any views or statements on behalf of Aberystwyth that you may choose to put before them, either by personal interviews or in the way of documents (cheers). I must, of course, add, though it is scarcely necessary for me to do so to gentlemen like yourselves, that you have to encounter what I do not conceal from you is an enormous difficulty, of apparently being opposed to the vast majority of opinion of North Wales. That, at all events, in the face of facts, appears to be the case, and that will be a great difficulty in your way. Indeed, it would be very uncandid if I concealed it from you. That, however, will not prevent the Government consider- ing all the representations made on behalf of Aber- ystwyth, just as we should consider all that are made on behalf of any of the town* included in the reference to the arbitrators. More than that I can- not be expected to say, and I must leave it in that way. I sincerely sympathise with Aberystwyth. I know the great and admirable efforts made in the cause of education there, and the good work done, and I ardently hope that, whatever be the result of this matter, these fine buildings, which I personally know, will be put to some good educational use. We shall see if that can be done, but, as I men- tioned before, there is a vast amount of North Wales opinion represented by the committee and the conference which you, as Welshmen, appreciate better than I do. The deputation then withdrew.

ABERYSTWYTH BOARD OF GUARDIANS- The fortnightly meeting of the board was held in the boardroom of the union workhouse on Monday morning. Present-Mr Morris Davies (in the chair), Mr B. E. Morgan and Dr R. D. Roberts, ex-officios; Rev John Pugh and Mr Hugh Hughes, Llanbadarn; Messrs David Jones, Rest; Henry Morgan, Pantrallad; James Jones, Llwynglas; J. T. Morgan, Maesnewydd Hugh Hughes, Cwm. bwa David Jenkins, Troedrhiw John Hughes, Creigaant; John Richards, Tynpynfarch Thomas Jones, Cwmere; J. Parry, Dyffryn Mill; Hugh Hughes, clerk; Dr J ones, medical officer. THE HOUSE. The Master reported that during the past fort- night there were four admitted, four discharged, and one died, leaving 98 the house, being an increase ef 22 on the corresponding fortnight of the previous year, The number of vagrants relieved during the past fortnight was 29,being a decrease of two on the corresponding fortnight of the previous year. FINANCE. The following out-relief was administered :-Aber- ystwyth district, per Mr John Jones, Commerce House, .-£39 8s Oil to 196 paupers Geneu'rglyn district, per Mr John D. Jones, Zbl 12s 6d to 218 paupers; Ilar district, per Mr Joseph Morgan, £ 49 7s 6d to 202 paupers. The amount in the bank was shown to be .£4:16 109 Id. ELBCTIOFT OF GUARDIANS. The Chairman read a communication from the Northampton Board of Guardians asking the co- operation of this board in supporting a memorial to the Local Government Board in favour of the elec. tion of guardians by ballot instead of the present system. The Chairman and Dr R. D. Roberts spoke in support of an alteration of the present method, the latter stating that there was nothing in favour of the present system. The Clerk said the present mode was most antiquated. The great argument in its favour was that it was not so expensive, but he believed that it was quite as expensive as if an ordinary election was held. The matter was allowed to stand over for a fortnight. THE CHARGE AO AID ST THE INDUSTRIAL TBAINRB. The Chairman, in reply to Mr Hugh Hughes, said there was nothing in the charge made against the industrial trainer of beating one oftheehildroo. STRAYING INMATBS. The Chairman said that a complaint had been made of some of the paupers straying about the roads without leave from the master, and the latter was ordered to proeure a quantity of iron and wood to repair the door to the stone yard, so as to prevent their egress. A HABDWOBKBD TRAMP. The Master reported that one tramp visited the house for the second time within the past two months, and be had to break ten hundred weight of stones each day. On leaving the house be said he would never tome to this workhouse again (laughter). BIRCHING BOYS. The Master reported tbat three of the boys in the workhouse had been birehed by order of the house committee. They were the ringleaders in all mischief. As to the charge against Miss Clayton, the industrial trainer, it was said that she bit a boy until his nose bled but they found out that it was all false, and the boy had been ordered to be birched again. Miss Clayton was a most excellent offioer. The fiev J. Pugh said the boys had agreed among themselves not to obey any orders on account of the new master. The Chairman They said they would make a row, because they did not see why they should have a new master, as they did not want one.

ABERYSTWYTH TOWN COUNCIL. A meeting of the Council was held at the Town Hall on Tuesday. Present—Mr Isaac Morgau (in the chair), Alderman Roberts, Councillors Thomas Griffiths, George Green, D. C. Roberts, Richard James, C. M. Williams, E, P. Wynne, and John Roberts; Messrs A. J. Hughes, town clerk; Griffith Jones, corporation solicitor, H. L. Evans, borough accountant; and Rees Jones, borough surveyor. BILLS AND SALARIES. The usual bills and salaries were ordered to be paid. PAYMENT OF INTEREST. Mr John Roberts proposed, and Mr E. P. Wynne seconded, the payment of interest on X5,200 which was ordered. FINANCE: The Corporation in account with the London and Provincial Bank,—Cr., Borough fund account, .£835 16s 7d; district rate fund, .£334 13s 4d court fees, .£35 6* 6d, total, £ 1205 17s Od; balance due at the bank, £ 2,031 7s Od total, 4s Od, Dr., Harbour fund account, Jgl,123 3s 9d; waterworks, .8817 6s Od; waterworks loan account, .£129614s 3d; total, £ 3,237 4s Od DRAINAGE. The Surveyor reported that several new closets were about being erected at Spring Gardens, Tre- feehan, and in order to supply them with water it would be necessary to extend the mains about 35 yards, at a cost of about five guineas. Mr C. M. Williams proposed, and Mr Wynne seconded, that the work be carried out. Agreed to. THE SEAWEED. Mr Wynne asked the Surveyor if anything could be done with the seaweed on the beach? It was causing a great nuisance, the smell being very offensive that morning. The Town Clerk said he was talking to a gentleman, who said that he liked the town very much, but he thought the drainage must be very bad. This, no doubt, arose from the offensive smell of the sea- weed. Mr John Roberts said they could smell it right up at his door. The Surveyor intimated that he had been down to the beach that morning, aDd to the place where the seaweed usually was washed in, but there was not much there at present. THE DRAINAGE OF THE BARRACKS. Mr C. M. Williams asked the Town Clerk whether he halj received any reply from the Local Government Board with regard to the disgraceful state of the barracks ? The Town Clerk read a communication, in which it was promised that provision should be made in the army estimate for 1884-5 to carry out the necessary drainage. He suggested that the work should be done now by the Council on the understanding that the cost be refunded by the War office. Mr C. M. Williams thought the Town Clerk should be authorised to communicate with the War office to that effect. At present the drainage was injurious to the health of the people living at the barracks and those around, and if the property belonged to a private individual it would not be allowed to exist. The Town Clerk said they might authorise him to say that this Couacil would be prepared to do the work as economically as possible provided the War office authorities would undertake to refund the cost. Mr Richard James I beg to propose that. Mr C. M. Williams secouded the proposal, which was agreed to. THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE. Mr D. C. Roberts said that be had received a letter from Mr Hugh Roberts, the lessee of the slaughterhouse, stating that a great many butchers received their meat direct from Birkenhead, and that he should not be able to go on at the present rental. He submitted a statement showing that the whole of his takings only amounted to .£17 16s lid for ten weeks, and during, the same period the rent and rates came toEl9 2s Id. The Chairman said the matter had been fully discussed at a previous meeting of the Council, when it was decided that as Mr Roberts had taken the premises on a lease they had nothing to do with it. Mr D. C. Roberts said he quite agreed with the decision then arrived at, but as the letter had been addressed to him, as convener of the slaughterhouse committee, he thought itahis duty to read it to the Council. Mr Richard James proposed, and Mr John Roberts seconded, that the letter be referred to the slaughter-house committee. Carried. Mr C. M. Williams said that it would be well if the committee would also consider the state of the meat market, and see what could be done to put that place in a better condition. Mr Thomas Griffiths said they could not inter- fere with Birkenhead, but could they not interfere with the slaughter houses in the neighbourhood, and prevent butchers committing a nuisance? The Town Clerk said that he bad communicated with the Rural Sanitary Authority on the subject, but had received no reply. He would write again. Mr John Roberts said it was a very hard case that this man should be called upon to pay rates and taxes when his takings werlnot sufficient to do so. Mr C. M. Williams asked who Mr Roberts' sure- ties were ? The Council had been very loose in this matter, and*in this case it would be well to see that the security was right. The Borough Accountant: Mr John Jenkins, Chalybeate-terrace, is one. Mr Griffith Jones: A proper agreement was drawn up, and I know there are sureties, but I don't know who they are just now. THREATENSD LAW SUIT. The Town Clerk read a letter, dated 18th Jane, from Mr T. S. Stooke, informing the Town Council that unless his account was paid this week, he should place the matter in the hands of his solicitor. He (the Tows Clerk) had received .another letter from Mr Stooke that morning, asking for a reply to the first letter. Alderman Roberts proposed that the letter be haaded over to the Borough Solicitor with instruc- tions to act. Mr C. M. Williams suggested the propriety of referring the bill of costs to the finanee committee, so that they should examine it. Mr Griffith Jones said it bad been referred to the finanee committee, but they had never met. The matter was referred to the finanee committee and Mr Jones. BORROWING POWERS. The Town Clerk read a communication from the Loeal Government Board, appointing Thursday, July 5th, for the holding of the public inquiry into the application for powers to borrow -04,000 to complete the waterworks scheme. He said there should not a day be lost in getting the attendance of the necessary witnesses to support the applica- tion. Mr John James was not at home, as convener ef the waterworks committee, aad he telegraphed to the Mayor on Monday, but had received no reply. Perhaps the council would consider what was to be done as to witnesses. They must be prepared with evidence to show what work was to be done, the cause of the estimate falling short, and that the work which will have te be done would take the amount of money required. It was decided to sit in committee at the close of the meeting. SUPPLY OF WATBS. Mr James Daniel's application for a supply of water to his house was referred to the waterworks committee. Mr C. M. Williams stated that it was probable a similar application would be made by the inhabit- ants of the village of Capel Bangor. On the suggestion of Mr C. M. Williams, the Surveyor was directed to obtain a sample of water supplied to houses in Uanbadarn-road, for analysis. THE LEASES. The motion authorising the Mayor to affix the seal of the corporation to a lease of the premises in Mary-street agreed to be let to Mr John Morris, for a term of 75 years, at an annual rent of jE7, was de- ferred, the. committee not having brought in a report upon the plans. Another application made by Messrs Williams and White for a lease of an additional piece of land 20 feet wide and 40 feet deep at the back ot their chandlery in the Smithfield-road, was, on the motion of Mr Richard James, seconded by John Roberts, referred to the public works committee. LANDMARKS TO PLTNMMOtf. Mr C. M. WiUiwoa said that h. bos bCMk re- quested by the improvement society to e surveyor to place landmarks for the use of going to Plynlimon. Mr John Roberts pointed out that lac, were required from Plynlimon mine to the s and from the summit down to Dyffryn Casteli The matter was referred to committee. THE BATHING MACHINES. Licenses for bathing machines were grantei several persons, Sergeant Evans having repor. them to be in good order.