The Cambrian News and Merionethshire Standard

PWLLHELI C rSf TX MA?lS-'RATKS' C(Jl RT> Nov. 21.—Before Owen Evans (chairman), and Robert Cam g, Esqs., the Revs. St G Armstrong Wilbams and Thorn is Jones R.D., and the Chief Constable was accommodated with a seat on the Bench. tir'nIT"!|f!^ her Mast?)- for Wages —Jane Williams v. William Hugnes, Bodfelbach, near Pwllheli. Mr K.chard Roberts appeared for plaintiff, and Mr Allanson, Carnarvon, for defendant.-Mr R. Roberts, in stating th-* case, said the application was to compel the defendant to pay com- plainant £ 5 »*, the balance of £ 5 10s, due to her as wages at the end of last half year. She had been in service with the defendant for nearly eighteen months. 09. an after- noon within a week of the expiration of her service she had to go for her mistress to PwUheli on an errand, though she complained she was ill. On her way back she called at a house at Llannor, where, getting very ill, she was persuaded to stay there until the morning, and she took some medicine Next morning she went to Bodfelbach at 6 a.m but was refused admittance, the doors being bolted. The question was whether she had deserted the service; of d-fondant. jane Williams said she had b en servant a: Bodfeib ich for eighteen months w.thin one week. She had been asked to stay there also for the present winter, but she refused to stay. On November 3rd she was sent by her mistress to Pwllheli on an errand. Before starting, sh- toid her mis- tress that she was ill, but her mistress insisted upon her going, though it was then a quarter to eight p.m. She-had to carry a basket containing butter, eggs, &c., and it was pretty heavy. She went home through Llannor and called at the house of one Catherine Gnffitu being unable to go further that night, she staid until the morning In coa-equtnee of her illness she was long walking tc P wllheli and thence to Uannor. She went through Llannor instead of going d'rect to Bodfelbach, because she had a bundle of sent there to mend. On arriving at Catherine Gr,filth's she went to bed, and got medicine to perspire. Nl-xt morning she started at 5 15 a.m., to go to Bo ifelback, but on arri- ving there she was not admitted. She knocked at the doors which were bolted. Her master came down, and called out who was there and she repiied it was she. Oh," he said you may go where you have been, and you may come to me for your wages; take the law." Then he clapped the door in her face. On the morning of the last Pwdueli fair, she called H Bodfelbach for her wages. He said he would not pay her, because she had gone to Llannor that night. At Bodfel she had to sleep m a room in the roof of which there was a hole, through which the rain eamo A Qere and she was drenched in bed, but that waT n'Jt reason why she would not stay over the winter. Du y the last 18 months, the master and mistress never c ;m "lain5 ed of anything in her conduct, until she refused to stay over winter. She would Sw,ar that she was unable to go further than Llanor that night.— Cross-exaiiiined by Mr Ailans-)n-Thtre are five children at Bodfelbach, the eldest of whom is about ten years, and the youngest is about two. They only keep one servant there. Complainant used to dress the children when lirs Hughes was elsewhere engaged, and she used also to do the cooking in the absence of her mistress. She had been en- gaged to do household work only, but her master often sent her to work out. Mr Ailanson urged that the court had no jurisdiction, as domestic servants did not coat under the Act, which said any servants in husband.v, and labourers, and he maintained she was purely a domestic servant. The complainant said she was by her hire to go out to work at the hay and corn harvests. She was also to feed the pigs, milk the cows &c t'be Court decided that complainant was an agricultural servant wiohm the meaning of the Act.—Cross-eiaaaainati ,n continued.-She had had an illegitimate child. She had not been out of the house for a whole night on more than two occasions during the season, was sure she had never been four, Her mistress never scolded her for staying out all night. Re. membered going to Bodfel one morning after being out all night, and finding her mistress about to light the fire. On that occasion she did not blame her. The other occasion when she was out all night,was on the Friday before her dismissal. Catat-rine Griffith, Llanor, said dfcfoudant came to her house on the Wednesday night before the fair. Compt.,in.,nt was very poorly and witness persuaded her to stay ov r night, as she was not fat to out. Witness gave her medicine to perspire. Complainant left her house at 5 15 a.m., but returned amiu be- f^re six a.m.. staying at her house until the fair. Witness fetched a doctor—John Williams, nrother of complainant, gave evidence to his h tving accomp,inied his sister to defendant's on the morn- ing of the fair day, to demand her wages, nh. n d, fandant re- fused to pay, assigning as his reason her having stopped out the night she went to Pwllheli; they had no other complaint against her.—For the defence, Mrs Hughes, Bodfelbach, was called, and said she used to allow the edrl to go to see her child when she asked. This was the sixth time for the servant to have been out all night. She had giveu the comp-ainant no per- mission to stay out all night the evening she Was sent to Pwilhe-i, and she had warned, her that she would tell her master if she staid out any more. William Hughes also swore that he gave her no permission at any time to stay all night, and he did not know that she was accustomed to stay so.-The B- nch said it was their opinion that the complainant was entitled to her wages, with costs, and upon the application of Mr R. Roberts, "the advocate's fee was also granted.—Mr Allansou askod the Bench to grant him a case for a superi-ir court (1) A" to wheih r she was an agricultural or a domestic servant in th meaning of the Act. (2) Wnether she was rightly or wrongly dismissed (3) Whether he had a right to reply. The Court, however refused to grant a case. Master Suing his Servant -WIIU&M Roberts, Moelfre, summoned Tuooias Jones. Pistyll, for deserting his service- Comp'ainant said thai on November 9th he hired defendant ao a husbandman and cowman, and he waa to assist cimni to hire servants at tbe fair, and did procure f ,a'nant the night of the fair he went to his place, hut •, hlm- he would m.-t come there, as he understood th« i to feed .he cows Case dismissed. Ue ha? to be d* P Breach of the Highway Act.-The Police v. Owen Griffiths and ocheri -It was an adjourned case, the ch.irge being for placing a threshing machine within eleven yards of a public road, whilst tbe Act prohibited its being placed whin twenty- five yards.—The case was dismissed, and the defendants warned not to repeat the offence.

DOLGELLEY LICGAL. -We are pleased to observe the name of Mr G. H. Ellis and Mr R. J. Griffith, of this town, among the list of candidates who successfully passed the linal exami- nation of the Jaw held at the Hall of the Incorporated Lw Society, London. Both were articled to Messrs Griffith and Son of this town. FAIB.—There was a fair held here on Monday, November 22nd. There was a good number of cattle which sold at fair prices. ALLEGED THEFT.—At tbe police-station, on Tuesday, November 23rd, before Lewis Wiliiama, Esq., Anne Ellis and Cai.herine Roberts were charged by P.C. Richard Vaughan with having stolen coal, the property of the Vigra and Clogau Gold Mining Company, Limited. The prisoners were let out on bail to appear at the Barmonth Petty Sessions.

^BfRTHS^MAR^AGEsT^D^THS^ JO.'iES- Nov. 22nd, at Bro"n* wiJjlfniog, the wife of Mr Wm. stj*tion-road, Fastiniog, the wife f Mr Robert j°ne,> Teliev.lt>fJ officer, of a b< »; B' 110 WIMJAMS-NOV. of M; 0<mi Wimams, merchant, Britannia Foundry, t'orimactoc,. of a son. •WARR SAGES. D theEKevTvvm."jones 7tb, at the Tabernacle, Aberystwyth, by Ariam Mr Isaac ri<» presence of the Registrar, MrJobn Cnw bcoch Daviw- Miss Margaret Pagh, JONES-LEWIS-Nov. 15th by licence, at Bethel Calvinistic Fe,Uninf Ne«»wn, by the Rev. T. J. Wheldon, B.A., ianu j Alio uas Hauler Jones, Pantaaawr, Bettws, to T.'nni'i daughter of the late Mr R. Lewis, Aberbechan, Tn»ro n M 'ntgomeryshire. Oh D'wards -NOV. I9th, by licence, at the Congregation!.I tmapel, Bala, Mr Evan Jones, Khydyhad, Llanuwchllyn, to Miss Margaret Eiwards, Cae Coch, Llanuwchllyn. LLEWELYN—ARTHUR— Nov. 18. b, hy licence, at Heh both, Taliesin, by the R,&istrar, Mr John Adams, Mr Wm. Llewelyn, Tal) bOat, to E izalitth Arthur, Talies a. MlCHEbL—MASON—Nov. 22nd, at EglwvsNewvdd, Hafod, by the Hev. B. Edwards, Yspytty Cvnfvc, John, second son of Capt. Wm. Miclieti, junior of the Cwrnystwyth Mines, to Elizabeth Annie, second daughter of Mr Thomas Mason, Uxbridg", Mid- dle-ex. MORGAN—OWEN—Nov. 20th, by licence, at Salem Chapel, Port- madoc, by the Rev L Prober;, Mr Robert Morgan, boots at the Commercial Hotel, to Mi s Miiiy Owen, Ganilwyd. SHELTUN-JONES-—THOMAS—Nov. 23"'1, at tjlaiiarmon fJhurch, by the Kev. St. Geo. Armstrong Williams. Dr E i u in Shelt- n- Jon s, of.Pwllheli, to Maria Catherine, only daughter of obt. Tnom^s, Esq., Plasdu, C o narvonshire. WILLIAMS-I)AVIES- Nov. 2utu, at Capeby-groes, Llfcnwnen before Mr Jones, Redotrar, Mr Evan Williams, Waungron, tl Miss Mary Davies, late dairymaid to T. H. R. Hughes, Neuadd fawr, Lamp ter. WILLIAMS—-JONES—N >v. 22nd, by licence, at the Calvinistic7 Methodist Chapel, Tregaron, by the Rev..T hn .To..es. Mr Thomas Williams, mine agent, Crowboroughgate, to Miss Margaretta Jones, dausbter of Mr David Jones, Ola Abbey, Strata Florida. OEATBH. BINGER-Nov. 14th, aged 62, James Owen Binger, of Sandown- terrac*, Chester. BRAY—N /v. 16th. aged 44, Mr W. Bray, coal merchant, &c., Severn-street, Welshpool. CLARKE-Nov. l&h, at the Old Vicarage, Llanidloes, Mr D. McDonald Cl^rse. EVANS -Nov. 20tb, aged 30, Griffith, eldest son of the late Mr G. w. Evans, tanner, &c., Welshpool, not having survived his- father one month FOUR—Nov. 18ih, at Plar^wynant, Beddgelert, Caroline, widow of P. J. Ford, Esq., of Jwyngw&rn, Montgomeryshire. FoaD-Nov. 13ib, aed 54, Vlr J.ollu Ford, 15, Wellington-cres- cent, Welshpool, lute of Llandysitio HEW-SON—Oct. Slst, aged 30, Annie Sarah Lewis Hewson, off J..mt;s' F-irca, Ruabon. HOUSE-Nov. 10th. aged 6 weeks, Amelia, and Nc.s 14th, Hen-- xiwt-a, twh daughters of Rich trd aud Anne House, of Gres- ford 17th, aged 3¡ William, son of Mr John Jones, Maen~ twrog. Jones Nov. loth, aged 59, at Bridge-end, Cardigan, Mrs Martha. Jones squire and Compass luu. 0 WEN-Nov. 22nd, Mr E H. Owea, Short Bridge-street, Llan-- Klines. PHILIPS-Nov. 15th, aged 45, at Rhual, Mold, North Whiles, tawin William Philips, Esq J P. f)r Flintshire, ami late cap- tHin of the 36th RogiuHJnT, second son of the late Col. Frederick C Philips, of Rhual. REYNOLDS—Nov. 11th, aged 77, at Biymbo, Charlotte Reynolds. ROBEaTs-Nov. 16th, Elizabeth, wife of Mr David Roberts, Bron- fawr, Maentwrog. ROBERTS-Nov. 17th, aged S weeks, the inftat of the sdd Mr D. Roberts, Broufawr. ROlFERTS-Nov 16th, aged 51, at Adwy, Bersham, Ann, wife- &f David Roberts. ROGERS—Nov. 11th, aged 47. at Peutre Ttroughfon, John Rogers. ROWLANDS—Nov. 14th, a ed 61, Eliz.t, the beloved wife of I Richtird Rowlands, of 4, Nelson-placo, Welshpool, and formerly of Castle-Caerelm JD. SEARELL—Nov. 23nl, aged 9 months, Aurelia Mary, daughter of Emma and Tnomas Searell, manager of theCefn Cam, Quarries, near Dolgelley. STAINE—>ov. 16th, Sarah Elizabeth, wife of Joseph Staine, of the Siglen, Montgomery; also, Nov. 21st, William Joseph, in- fant son of the above. WARREN—Nov. 12th, aged 6, at he iIJtitLut House, Alexandre Deaue, youngest son of the Rev. R. E„ Warren. WILLIAMS-Nov. 18th, figed 71, Mr Nathaniel Williams, Brony- rhelem, near Tregaron WOODHOUSE—Nov. 20th, aged 24, vViUiarn, son of Mr Edward Woodhouse, Canal Basin, Newtown, late assistant at Messrs Lloyd an i Bennett, drapers. frintea by Ii. H. VKNABLBH; una Pabiisiic 'or t'ie 1'1'0\)1'1<6\).1'. at the f Jacob JON-ES, Higa-street, 13 ID the county of Merioneth: of TonN GIBSON, 3, Queen'SKrs '"r Aberystwyth, \nthe couutvof Cardigan and of DAVID Portm»d"<i, in the couuty ol dn.arvou. Friday, November 26th, 1875.

UP AND DOWN THE COAST. j A SMOKER'S OLD PIPES. No. 1. — THE BLACKENED CUTTY. It was not a respectable pipe. There was a vagrant look about it which at once precluded it from any chance of appearing in good society. The stem, it was true, had been fitted with an amber mouthpiece, and the bowl had been coloured to a deep brown, but still its native clay stiirp>jd it as a pipe of plebeian extraction, and neither sil- ver ff r ule n, r amber mouthpiece could give it that stand- ing among pipes which meer-chaum tak" by right, and "briar obtains by the tacit consent of smokers. This cutty had never been a good society pipe. The silver ferrule and arabsr mouthpiece were tue smoker s gratef .1 acknowledgments of a confidential pipe numer. ous excellence-?, ar.d not concessions to the arbiters of fashion. The clay of which the pipe was formed mnst have b-en ?o-nething out. of the ordinary way of clav. The man too who worked it into shape was an artist in pipps. Great care had also been taken in its baking, and at last there was produced this perfect cutty. The creaky whiteness —the absorbing softness: ah, that cutty was a pipe. Showier and more expensive articles which when net in use spent tht-ir time in silk-lined cases did duty in public, but in times of doubt and darkness, when the smoker wished for peace, then he turned to this blackened cutty lying there before you. With head thrown back, feet stretched outj eyes turned towards ceiling, bat iooking right through it into the illimitable depirs of space, the owner sat and smoked the fragrant weed late oce autumn night. It was a still night, and there was a scent of flowers in the an- Stars looked down on the lower worlds as of old, and ggard human faces and hope'ea-eyes were turned to- wards the" white orbed maiden" as in times gone by. The light shimmered through trees, from which dead leaves came shuddering down as the least breath of wind southed gently through them. Tae ocean curled lovirg y about the bases cf the rock?, and there was at intervals the long swishing sound of a wave breaking slowly along the pebbly shore. The mountains, distinct in the moonlight, were as though human feet had never scaled their heights. The everlasting hills seemed to be listening in the silence for some secret message from Him who laid their foundations in the centre of the world. In the churchyard headstones listened in the light, and the dead in their dreamless sleep were unconscious of falling leaves, breaking waves, shining stars, h&ggard faces, hopeless eyes. The owner of the cutty appeared to be looking at the ceiling of the room, but he did not see it. He was looking at his own life which had reached a crisis, and you may just as well take a glance at what he saw there. First of all, however, you will want to know about the crisis, and after- wards, perhaps, you will not care anything about the life. W t-J shall see. There is great danger, in writing this history, of saying more about the owner than the pipe, partly because he bad reached a crisis and partly because he sat smoking in the position already described. His name was Owen Traeth, and Mrs Traeth was sup- posed to be «Djoying herself at the seaside with four little Traeths, while her husband was passing through this crisis, of which she knew nothing. In the day time the little Traeths filled little buckets with sand and paddled in the sea with patent leather boots on their feet, and Mrs Traeth read novels one after another with the greattst possible perse- verance. Poor Mrs Traeth on this perticular evening had at last disposed of the children, having kissed them and slapped them by turns before they settled down to sleep. "Thank goodness," she said, "they have gone at last," and she sat down to supper, which consisted of bread and cheese and a pint bottle of porter. A pint bottle of porter does not contain a pint, as most people know; so nobody need think Mrs Traeth was fonder of porter than the mo- ther of a family ought to be. The cork had been drawn, the froth was subsiding in the first glass, and in fact it was j ust at this point in the progress of Mrs Traeth's supper I that her beloved husband began to face the crisis which he had reached. I He faced it in this way. Having filled tho cutty with good tobacco, he lighted it and began to smoke, slowly at tirst, and then rapidly. Between the whiffs he uttered ex. clamations in this style "Ah (whiff, whiff, whiff), "Well it can't be helped (whiff, whiff, whiff, whiff, for more than five minutes), Dear me!" (whiff, whiff, whiff), Oh, what a fool I must be (many more whiffs), I am a done maan-uteerly done for-Dear me How can I stand it. What shall I do. No hope. What will4become of them ? Poor things Sc young, too." These words escaped the smoker at intervals, and you may easily see that the crisis through which he was passing was of no ordinary sort to wring from him expressions of gloomiest import. The first "Ah" which escaped his lips at the end of a column of blue smoke, as he held the cutty between his thumb and finger, was the Ah of a man who had just finished reasoning out a question, and had reached an unexpected conclusion. The words Well, it can't be helped," bear out this idea, and show plainly that he was trying hard to reconcile himself to that which he knew to be inevitable. After five minutes' smoking there comes Dear me," showing a fretful reluctance to meet the evil before him. The sacrifice seemed too great. He is realizing the consequences of his acts and their penalty. Imagination was as busy with the future as conscience was with the past. Remorse comes up like a flood, and he says Oh, wh..t a fool I have been." This is the utterance of a man who feels the truth of his words. Remorse is quickly followed by despair, as may be seen from the words I am a done man-utterly done for," and then comes doubt as to his strength to go through what lies before him. Pity for his fan.ily well? up into his soul, and with a depth of tender- ness he says What will become of them? Poor things. So young too." It must be remembered that Owen Traeth was smoking the cutty all the while this was passing through his mind, and he was preparing to go through the crisis which he had reached. His wife did not suspect as she sipped the porter which we saw her uncork, that her mate was having a hand-to-hand fight with fate, and that the future could not be as the past had been. Life is the mest curious puzzle a man ever meets. Here for instance, is this cl?y pipe smoked by a man who knows its virtues. His wife is at the sea side, ignorant of what is transpiring, but the pipe is taken into closest confidence at this supreme moment. What to him are revolutions and agonies, and fashions, and the latest odds on the next great race? The veil has been torn from the world, the scales have dropped from his eyes he sees not trees, and. earth, and hill, and dale, and men, and implements, and clothes: at laat he knows that everything is something other than he once thought it. The spirit of the world has been revealed to him, and awe and reverenca and wonder gather about even common clods, which are instinct with life. It was all owing to this cutty pipe, the history of which is now being written. Owen Traeth was an inveterate emok -r. and on --he day preceding the night when his wife dra; k the porter, which was slightly flat, he went to ask the doctor about his heart which he thought was in a di as d condition. He wa3 tapped and listened to, ani listened to and tapped, and tapped without being listened to. All the while he felt that the solid ground was slipping from under his feet. Mortal disease he was sure had him in its fatal grip, and he saw his own funeral as plainly as ever he saw anything in his life. At last the man of science turned to Owen Traeth and spoke. He said Sir, you must give up smoking." Like a flash of light a vision of thp cutty with the amber mouth piece parsed before him. The silver ferrule, too, seemed a separate glory, and there was a scent of smoke in his nostrils. He went home and filled his cutty and lighted it, and in the solitude of the night smoked hIS last pipe with his eyes fixed upon the ceiling which he never saw. This was the crisis, and he passed through it. The Coast. PERRY WINKLE.

SHIPPING. Week ending 24th November, 1875. ABERYSTWYTH. A rrived. -Louisa, Roberts, Dublin; H. E. Taylor (ss), Watkin?, Liverpool; Wave oi Life (s), Jones, Portmadoc Jane Davies, DavicS, Newport. Sailed.—Louisa, Rubers, Portmadoc; Wave of Life (s), Jones Portmtdoc H. E. Taylor (ss), Watkins, Bristol. PORTMADOC. .Arrived.-Emm:o Alice, Evans, Cork; Why Not, Wil- liams, Cork; Margaret Owen, Roberts Galway; Two Brothers, Pticharda, Dundalk Loinise, Roberts, Abcr- y8SS'.—William Jones, Evans, London; Ala Charles, Edwards, Cardiff • Onward, Leir. Dublin Rapid, Dow- den, Youghal; Lark, Jones, Cardiff; Ann, Jones, Blythe; Velocity, T)avies, '-Newpi)rt; Secret. Williams; Williams, Williams, Newport; Mary Jane, Roberts, Portsmouth; Eliza W olesley, Roberts, Cardiff.

By the Justices of the Peace Qualification Act of last session, the occupation for two years of a h0118 assessed to the inhabited house duty at a value of £100 will for the future be a sufficient property qualification for a' justice of the peace for a county. Mr Haroioge Stanley Giffard, Q.C., of the South Wales Circuit, is announced as the new Solicitor-General in the room of Sir John Holker, who succeeds to the Attorne>T- Generalship, vacant through the elevation of Sir R Bagira'day to the B,nch. Mr Giffard, who is a Bencher of the Inner Temple, has twice unsuccessfully contested Cardiff in the Conservative interest, on the l»st occasion beiug beaten by a majo ity of nine only on a total poll of 5 551 votes. Tae learned gentleman h*s aho been before th" constituency of Launceston, a Tory nomination borougti in Cornwall, and is at, present without a seat iu the Huus- of Commons. In thus going outsi.Je Parliament f,r the second law officer of th* Crown, Mr Disraeli f„llOW8 the precedents set by Lord Paimerbtjn m Ju.y 1861, when th. present Lord Selborne, th°n Mr Rour,dell Palmer was ap pointed and seated for Richmond; and by L od Derby ln De -ember 1866, when Sir John Karslake was brought ln and ^ear'was found for him Andov>-r. ETU'S COCOA.— GPATEF.H, AND C MFORTIVO.- By a thorough oi the natural iaw»ni fa govern the operations of iiLe*tion and nutrition, and by a careful application of the flu* oronerties of well-«dented cr,coa. MrEpps ha. P^ed our hrea fast tallies with a delicately flavoured beverage whi. may s..vc 1. ml,' heavy doctors' bill,It is bs the ju.hciou us, sueJ irtiel- s of diet that a constitute n may be grxflunlly built ap art 1 s'roi.-s enough to resi-t every tende .c- to "j1" iireiis of -ubtle mal <dies are floating around us e.«cty to attn,k wherever there is a wea'- poirit. W> mn e-cupe a Shaft, by keeping ourselves WPI) fortified it* pure Wood and propcfly nourished Civil Service Gazette.

THE DISESTABLISHMENT QUESTION. ENTHUSI ASTIC MEETING AT MACHYNLLETH On Wednesday evening, November 24tb. a meeting was held in the Town Hall, by the supporters of the Liberation Society in this neighbourhood to reply to the speeches made at the Church Defence meeting held some time ago. J't¡e large hall was crowded. Every seat was occupied, both in the body of the hall and upon the platform, as well as in the gallery. The aisles were also filled by a large number of persons who were unable to obtain seats at seven o'clock, J the hour when the proceedings commenced, and who pa'iently stood during the whole of the proceedings, which lasted over three hours. The speakers were uproariously applauded, and the enthusiasm was intense. The proceed- ings were otherwise of the most orderly nature, if an excep- tion is made to a little misunderstanding that arose in the course of Mr ü. R Jones's speech. The Rev. D. Evans, vicar of Llanwrin, who was taking notes with a number of others at a table immediately below the speaker, iijter- rupted Mr Jones by asking him to repeat a certain quota- tion which the amateur note-taker had failed to catch. As Mr Evans had uttered several hear, hears," in a loud tone of voice previously, the Chairman arose and called the rev. gentleman to order. Mr Evans stood up and attempted to explain, but was unable to do so on account of the deafen- ing clamour that met his first utterances, and he was obliged to resume his seat unheard. After a few remarks by the Rev. John Thomas, the Rev. John Jones, and the Chairman, order was restored, and Mr C. R. Jones resumed his speech. The Rev. D. Evans made his explanation at the close of the meeting. The chair was taken by Mr Davies, of Dolcaradol, who was supported by the Rev. John Thomas, Liverpool, Mr C. R Jones, Llanfyllin, the Revs. John Jones, Felinfoed, Josiah Jones, Machynlleth, O. Evans, Llanbrynmair, T. F. Roberts, Cemmaes, J. R. Roberts, Aberhosan, D. Williams, Machynlleth, G. Evans, Peurhyncoch, E. Williams, Dinas Mawddwy, K. Gr ffiths, Derwenlas, i3. G. Pugb, David Jones, and John Jones, Machynlleth, Captain Richards, Morben, Mr Evan Jones, Machynlleth, &c. There were also present the Rev. Canon Griffiths, rector of Machynlleth, Kev. D. Evans, vicar of Llanwrin, Rev. J. Morgan, Corris, and the Rev. J. M. Jones. A conference, under the presidency of Captain Kichards, Morben, was held in the afternoon, when the question of organization was taken into consideration. The CHAIRMAN at the evening meeting said he had con sented to take the chair as .m old Liberationist. He refer- red to a series of meetings held thirty-one years ago, in which Dr Morgan, of Lianfyllin, Dr Pritchard, of Ilan- goilen, the Rev. Cadwallader Joues, the father of Mr C. R. Joues, and ether speakers had taken part, and said that it was at Machynlleth that the principles of the Liberation Society first excited public attention in Wales. Mr C. R. J ONES, Lianfyllin, said he was told that they as Liberationists were disturbing tne peace 01 tne country, and in this respect he claimed to be in direct apostolical succession. "These that have turned the world upside down, have come hither also." It appeared that the visit oc his friend Mr Thomas and himself to Machynlleth at the commencement of the year, on behalf of the Liberation Society had caused a gooo deal of commotion among the supporters of Church Establishments in the town and coun- try, in so much that they invited two of their principal spokesmen to the defence of their ground. He was not able to say how far those reverend gentlemen (Revs. D. Evans and H. T. Edwards, of Carnarvon,) had succeeded in satis- fying themselves and their friends; but of one thing he felt very sure, that they had very materially helped them to bring the question of Disestablishment prominently before the public. If it could be said that there existed any lethargy on the part of the public, in respect tc this ques- tion at any previous time-such was not now the case. The public mind had been thoroughly roused, and the greatest interest was felt everywhere. He was perfectly sure that the balance of public opinion would be in favour of their cause, for it commended itself to every man's conscience, because it was foanded upon the principles of truth and justice. (Hear, hear.) This cause had, it was true, been trodden in the dust for upwards of 300 years, but the time had arrived when the banner of religious freedom and the rights of conscience should be unfurled in the clear light of truth and righteousness. Truth tho' crushed to earth will rise again, Th' eternal years of God are hers; But error wounded writhes in pain, And dies amid her worshippers." (Cheers.) He was sorry that there still existed considerable ignorance in respect to the principles and aims of the Liber- ation Society. At least, they were far frcm being properly and truthfully interpreted-indeed some of the silliest and most unfounded charges are made against them from the platforms of the Church Defence Association. "There are none so.blind as those who will not see 1" In the face of some of the charges made at the Defence meeting held at Hull some little time ago, he wished tosay distinctly that they did not advocate Disestablishment, without, first of all, "satis- fying the personal claims of those gentlemen whose lives depended upon their connection with the Establishment." Their principles said, After an equitable satisfaction of existing interests." Now, the chairman of the Defence meeting had. stated that the friends of Disestablish- ment could not realize the magnitude of what they contemplate doing-the injury to the country and to reli- gion. Then he asked them as Liberationists to calmly and dispassionately consider whether it would tead to religious liberty that 20,694 clergymen, 13,000 of whom received less than 2200 a year, should be deprived of their daily bread?" He (Mr Jones) wished to say distinctly that they had calmly and most dispassionately looked at the question in all its aspects, and could clearly see the end from the beginning— they had sat down and counted the cost. (Hear, hear). But to ask such a question as the one above referred to only showed the miserable ignorance that prevailed within Church circles in respect to the principles and aims of their society. It was the biiad leading the blind, and the two in consequence falling to the ditch. (Laughter). He wished to say distinctly that the advocates of Disestablishment bad never favoured the idea of depriving the clergy of their daily biead. No, not one of these clergymen, whether he was worthy of his daily bread or not. Such a doctrine was not known to them. It could only have originated in the brains of those who must have been deeply concerned about the loaves and fishes. (Laughter). Re had heard, nevertheless, to his regret, that the clergy were greatly dis- tressed and frightened at their future prospects, and it appeared ta him that they would not have so much opposi- tion to the Disestablishment movement if it had not been for the loaves and fishes. The hope of their gain seemed to concern them seriously. He was told of a clergym in in a respectable town in North Wales, a short time back, taking to his counsel three of the old women of the town. Stand- ing upon the street, he said to them, Here are these men trying to send me and my wife and children to the workhouse." Dear me, Mr said one of the old women, who happened to belong to the Independents, Is it possible that you are so unloved by your people that they would allow you to go to the workhouse. Why, would not your people support you in the same way as we support our minister ? We keep our minister fat and flourishing by voluntary contributions." (Laughter). He (Mr Jones) was quite of the same orthodox creed as this poor old woman— that the clergy ought to be supported by the voluntary contributions of the people to whom they ministered, (Hear, hear). Yet, he did not like to see their friends, the clergy, getting over anxious upon this head. Let,not their heart be troubled. The Liberationists did not wish to act shabbily towards any ef them. They were prepared to deal fairly and even liberally with them, and he hoped they would not be henceforth charged with trying to deprive them of their daily bread (Cheers). There was another statement he wished to make, to correct the unfounded charge made at the defence meeting in that hall, and it was that the Liberationists did not wish to de- prive the Church of one farthing of the endowments made to the Episcopal Church as such, and for Episcopal and Protes- tant purposes." The Chairman of the defence meeting had sta- ted that the property of the Church was given her by pious ancestors for the purposes of religion, and not une farthing by the State. fhe State did not give the Church her endowments," said the Rev. D. Evans, the property of the Church had been given her voluntarily, in the same manner as the endowments of Nonconformists. The State protec- ted the endowments of the Church like these of the Non- conformists." Mr Evans referred to the endowments made to Mr Spurgeon's chapel and to the Calvmistic Methodist College at Bala, and to the Church at Corris built and en- dowed by Marquess of Londonderry, and said very insinua- tingly that the Liberationists were the party that were for spoliating the Church of her rightful property. Now these tnings were intended to mislead. n.e ^axr Jones; wished to speak very distinctly upon the question, and in the first place he said that they did not wish to put their hands in the pockets of other people under these circumstances. He repudiated the charge of being spoliators. (Hear, hear). No, they had no desire to deprive the Church of one penny given her for Episcopal and Protestant purposes. Indeed they could only wish that such Churches as the Church at Corrii might be greatly multiplied in the land. (Cheers). But he nevertheless wished Mr Evans and his friends to un- derstand clearly, that there existed a very wide difference between endowing state Churches and endowing free chur- ches. There was a vast difference between budding and en- dowing a Nonconformist chapel, and building and endowing an Establisned Church. The Nonconformist who gave his money to endow a Nonconformist chape), gave his money to a society of people. The State did not claim any authority or control over Us circumstances, nor in any way interfere with it. It was true that it protected the endowment as a matter of contract, in like manner as it protected the rights of a Joint Stock Company, or any other transaction of business, but it did not prescribe any doctrine or creed to be observed and taught, no form of prayer to be offered. or tn. Kn G,.nn.;ntøn Tt- ;1. 11. a:ly (.uitwaww uoz claim any right to change the doctaine to be preached—or in any way inter- fered wi h their form .f worship. But, it was not, so in iespect ro the churchman who gave his money to endow a state church. He gave his money with a knowledge, or at lea-t he ought to have known, that the Church which he had given his money to build and endoar, was oiven to a Church over which the State cUiuied absolute control. It was entirey given to a church which the state governed, and regulated all its circum- -ancee. The State changed and determined, as it thought :-it, the doctiines to be preached, the creed to be observed, lie p, avers to be read, and the officers to be appointed. Yea, the State fixed even the milh-ery which was to be worn by its priests in the discharge of its service. (Laughter.) In fact, the State laid down ail the conditions upon wbicb the church property was to be enj *yed aod held. It was r<>ot and branch on^er the control of tbe Otate. That was wbat Lord Uuief Justice Coleridge said upon the question All such endowments are given and taken subject 'o State terms, upon conditions laid down fiom time to time by the State, and liable to be altered by bn pow.r which has laid them down." But still he (\h 111,T,"), admIt.} that although there tx>sted a great and wid difference bet- een these endowments for Nonconformi t Chat els and S'ate Churches, the Church had a moral ii-ht o endowments given out of the personal resources of the donor in modern times. These endowments the society did not wish any interference with. (Hear, ht-ar ) But there was a vast difference yet existing between the claims of the was a vast difference yet existing between the claims of the Chu; ch to these modern endowments and her rights to the episcopal and capitular estates, the glebes, the tithe, and | other property now in her possession. According to the best and most reliable authority the property of the Church amounts to the enormous s-im of two hundred millions sterling. The amount paid to the clergy, principally from tithe, reached in round ntunbers five millions yearly. Those of the clergy who did the most work. were the least paid, and those who did little lived in affluence. This property he (Mr Jones) maintained was the property of the nation, not one sectional part of the nation, but the whole Ration, represented by its proper organ the legislature, and that this property should be ap- plied for. the benefit of all alike. (Cheers.) The k.ev D. Rv ins had told them at the defence meeting, that the c was not a see,. No, certainly not, but sects many. (Laughter.) It was a great degradation and insult to call trie church a sect. Very well, he would admit that the church was not*!egallv a sect. Then he would ask, what was it ? Who constituted it? If it was not a sect, then it must be the nation as a whole, for it had never broken off from the national body." Richard Hooker, perhaps the highest authority upon^this question, stated that the Church and the State were one. No person could be a member of the State without being at the same time a member of the Church also. Nor could he be a member of the Church without beicg a member of the State. The Church and the State was one and the same thing. Lord Chancellor Eldon said that the Church was the State kcting ecclesiastically. Then he (Mr Jones) was prepared to admit the oneness of the Church and the State with his friend Mr Evans. That certainly was demonstrated in the personal experience of every English citizen. Every member of the State was a member of the Church. He was sure that he was a member of the State, and he was as sure that he was a legal member of the Church of England also. He had a right to partici- pate in its sacraments, and no one dared prevent him. He had therefore a right to speak upon every question con- nected with the Church of which he was a member with- out being open to the mean banter of Mr Evans-" Meind- iwch eich busnes eich hunan,language, to say the least, bordering upon Billingsgate. It was certainly not worthy of the gentleman whom Lord Selborne claimed for the clergy of the parishes. Yes, be had a right to speak upon all things that appertained to the Church without being subject to the charge of interfering with other people's busi- ness. As a member of the Church—(great laughter)—he desired to avail himself of the high honour thus conferred upon him, to raise his voice against all and every wrong in connection with the Church, and to help in every way possible to liberate her from the slavery to which she is subjected. (Cheers.) Then, it was said, that in so much as, that the Church and the State were one and the same thing -Lae whole ot the property now in the possession of the Church was property belonging to the State. It was utter folly to speak at one moment that the "Church was not a sect," and at the next, that the property of the Church was not national property." It was a direct contradiction in terms, and contrary to all logic. If the Church was the nation, then as a matter of course the property she held was national property. (Hear, hear.) Consequently the rotten system of the pious donors," fell to the ground. It was not who gave the property that was the question, but to whom was it given. The opponents of the Society said that it was given to the national church. Very good, who was the national church ? According to their antagonists and the lev. Vicar of Llanwrin amongst them, it was the State-for the Church had never broken apart from it. And indeed, the State had always claimed the right to this property, and exercised its power over it as it thought best by its p.oper organ, the legislature. It was a fact in the history of our country that this property had been given over and over again to different hands. In the reign of Henry VIII. this property was wrested from the Roman Catholic Church and transmitted (except what was distri- buted amongst that Sovereign's courtiers) to the Anglican Church, and again, in the reign of Edward VI., it was secured more again in the direction of Protestantism, and in the reign of Mary—commonly called "bloody Mary"—it was all conveyed back again to the Romish Church and when Elizabeth came to the throne it was again given back to the Protestants, in whose possession it still remained, although it travelled very fast again in the direction of Rome. To say that the property of the Church was not State property was something worse than f 3lly. A wado hyn aed a hi, A gwaded i'r haul godi." —(Applause.) There was now much talk of the rights of conscience, and clauses were enacted to protect them, but in those days the consciences of the clergy were as pliable as india rubber (Laughter.) In the beginning of the reign of Henry VIII. there were hundreds who were Roman Catholic Priests, before its close they were Protestant clergymen. It the time of Ed- ward VI. they professed Protestantism, and in the reign of Mary they became Roman Catholic priests again, and in Elizabeth's reign they were Protestants. They had an easy way of meeting the circumstances of the times. They had heard of the Vicar of Bray. The great point of this Vicar was to hold the living of Bray. It did not matter what king or queen was on the throne or what religion would be adopted by the king and country—his great aim was to be Vicar of Bray—according to the ballad- This is the law I will maintain Until my dying day, Sir, That whatsoever king may reign I'll be the Vicar of Bray. Sir." • (Loud laughter). The Rev. JOHN THOMAS, Liverpool, said-We have met here this evening, not as Churchmen or Dissenters, but as citizens and Christians, to consider a national institution which belongs to us all, and which in our opinion is a great hindrance to all social, political, and religious reform. Our object here is not to defend Dissent, but to make Dissent an impossibility. The existence of the Established Church in a country makes Nonconformity possible. (Hear, hear.) But if we are compelled by our opponents to defend our Nonconformity, we are quite prepared to do it. (Hear, hear.) The stronghold in which the Church has sheltered itself for ages is that the Establishment has been a balwark against Popery. I thought that I had fairly taken that castle when I was here on the last occasion; and that I had proved to the satisfaction of every unprejudiced and thoughtful mind that the Protestant Church of England, after 300 years of trial has been in that respect a failure, and instead of being a defence against Popery itlhas been a nursery for it. (Hear, hear.) If further proof be nececsary on this point we can give it upon the testimony of the most evangelical clergymen of the Church of England, the Ritualistic party, and the Church News their organ, and by the testimony of Roman Catholics, who declare that the Church performs their work much more effectually than they can do it. The words of Cardinal Manning and Monseigneur Capel are clear on this point. The first per- son says the clergy of the Established Church have taken out of the hands of the Catholic clergy the labour of con- tending for the doctrine of transubstantiation and invoca- tion of the Saints. The Catholics have been left to the much more happy and peaceable task of reaping the fields and I confess I would much rather be the humble reaper or the simple gleaner than be armed with the weapons of controversy. The latter says, in a sermon preached at Westminster in 1872, that the number of Roman Catholic priests in the Diocese of Westminster was 264, of whom 46 had been members of the Church of England, so that one. sixth of the priests working in his Diocese had been brought up under the influence of the Church of England. Not a week, he added, goes by without my receiving three, four, or five of the Ritualistic party into our Church. He further says that forty of the Roman Catholic clergy in London for- merly belonged to the English Church; while the heads of Stonyhurst, Oscott, St. Edmunds, Edgbaston, St. Charles, Bayswater, and the Catholic public school at Kensington are all converts; as are all the editors of the Dublin Review, the Month, the Tablet, the Illustrated Catholic Magazine, and Catholic Opinion. The Rev Mr Evans did not attempt to refute this assertion. He knew it would be a useless task but for the sake of argument he granted for a short time that more Churchmen than Dissenters joined the Church of Rome. Mr Evans may consider himself very generous in granting such a point, but he only granted it for a short time, and that for the sake of argument. But he did not recall it: and for his reasoning, if he had not told us he was going to reason we should not have understood at the end of his remarks that he did so. (Laughter). Instead of meeting the assertion fairly he attacks Dissent for the sake of raising dust in the eyes of his bearers to prevent them seeing the horror of the Established Church. (Hear). He says that the tendency of Dissent is not towards Ritualism but towards Infidelity, and he asserts that more beyond number of men have been led by Dissent to Socinianism and Infidelity than was ever led by the Church to Popery. I assert that there never was such a sweeping charge made so weakly supported. (Cheers). It appears that the rev. vicar does not understand what free churches mean, though I find that he holds Nonconformity lesponsible for the cor- ruption of churches from the truth. The tsjence of Church Establishment was in the constitu ion of the churches on the continent to which Mr Evans re --rred. Tne historian of the Huguenots tells us that from 1515 to 1559 was the age of purity and of Christian simplicity. The reform had entered into no political alliance with any party in the State. (Hear, hear). It was a quiet hidden move- ment in the hearts of men, thirsting tor religious truth, for peace of conscience, for purity of heart and life." (Cheers). Calvin evinced the deepest sympathy with these simple andde/oted Christians. Yet, strange to add, Calvin with all his interest in these witnessing Christian communities could not consent to this organization as dis- tinct churches. He formed a system of ecclesiastical polity which left the nomination of pastors to the consistory, and gave the controlling power to the civil authorities, though he was not prepared to recognize in the church the con- fessors and marryrs. Where a christian prince is who inaintaineth the gospel, and the whole land not resisting his commandment reverenceth the Word and Sacraments, these, the whole multitude of such a land or state, are with- out doubt to be esteemed and judged a true church." Geneva, with its intolerant neological pastors and irre- ligious population is the monument of this ecclesiastical system If we turn, again, to Germany, with tbe infidelity th,.rt-in, was it not Prottstantism as the Established Church of Prussia that was the means of the corruption of that, country from the faith ? (Hear, hear.) If you would wish to account further for the infidelity of Germany, it might he shown that infidelity was carried from this coun- try to Germany and the infidelity of that country is the resu't of the st, ameful irreligious state of the Established Ohurch in this country. Infidelity was the result of the unhealthy st tt^ of the Establishment in these days. The wr^mg of English infidels wis translated and published in Germany. Frederick II., King of Prussia, embraced these pernicious views, and a society for their promotion was fonneo unde" his patronage, with the intention of crush- jfcg out Lue Christianity, so that we see that the in6delitv of 0<-rn\ riy is 1. t the result of the free churches there, but of the infi.ieli'y of England and the Protestant Establish- ment of Prussia. The same things stand true with regard to France. Infidelity in France is the result of Popery as the religion established by law in that country, and even at the present day the Protestant Churches in France which receive their support from the Government are simply Uni- tarian, and some of them infidel. We must again follow Mr Eva,ns over the Atlantic to New England, against the churches of which place he has made the most reckless as- sertions. The Church of the Puritans," he says, after the fairest trial, and after having the field entirely to itself, is Socinian to the root. To day it may be said that almost all New England is Socinian." This assertion proves one of two things: either the most glaring ignorance or a siuful carelessness about the truth. I would prefer to be- lieve the first; but as he says so fpany things of the same description I am almost compelled to believe the last. It may be proper here to say one thing a large number of our historians often forget. The primary source of error is often found in the want of a clear distinction between the Pilgrim Fathers who were the founders of New Plymouth, and the Puritan Fathers who founded Massachusetts. Mr Pa frey, in his history of New England, says the difference between the Massacbusett and the Plymouth colonies has not been understood by English students of our history. It is overlooked by Lord Mahon, whose object, however, did not require him to observe it. It appeared to be equally unknown to Mr Marsden in his history of the early Puritans and Mr Anderson in his learned history of the Church of England in the colonies, who charges his treat- ment of the Browns to the Plymouth people and founds upon this mistake some strictures on American writers. The Pilgrims, says Mr Bancroft, carried with them to the New Warld the moderation which they professed in their dealing with the court. There is marked difference in thij respect between the government of the old colony as that of Plymouth was called and the government of Massa- chusetts. The Pilgrims were never betrayed into the ex- cesses of religious persecutions. The biographer of Roger Williams gave the same testimony. There are now in the U nied States of America more than 3,000 orthodox Con- gregational churches who are the direct successors of the Pilgiim Fathers. (Cheers.) Of these churches about one third is in New England. The Presbyterians and the Baptists, the Wesleyaus and the Episcopal Church are also strong in numbers there and comparatively, the Socinians are a mere handful. (Cheers.) The Congrega- tionalists of America contribute annually five million dollars for the support of missionaries in heathen countries, while more than that amount is raised for home work. (Cheers.) New England has given to America its most eminent min- isters and the leading men in all the churches of the States south and west. (Applause). It is a libel, therefore, upon the most educated and religious people in the world to say that almost all New England is Socinian. (Cheers). I was present ten years years ago last June at the great con- vention in Boston, when nearly 700 representatives of the 3000 Congregational churches of America met together. One day the convention went down to New Plymouth, and they stood on the rock where the Pilgrim Fathers landed. They afterwards went in procession to the graveyard, where the remains of the fathers rested in hope, and the chairman standing upon a tomb of one of the Pilgrim Father, read the Declaration of Faith, which was agreed upon the pre- vious day at Mount Veruon Church. That declaration was exactly the same as that agreed upon by the Pilgrim Fathers, more than 240 years ago. (Applause). So that the congregationalists of New England had held the faith of their fathers. (Loud applause). I am not at all sur- prised that the supporters of the church establishment in this country are doing their best to blacken the character of New England and America, for that, country gives the strongest testimony in favour of the voluntary principle in ;religion, and the adaptation of the principles to the free churches, to extend the limits of the gospel, and secure the purity of the truth as it is in Jesus. (Cheers). I en- tirely deny the charge that Dissent leads to infidelity, and I say that there is not the shadow of foundation for it either in philosophy or in history. (Applause). But I do more than deny the charge against nonconformity. I turn the tables upon the church of England. The Church of England has not only been the nursery of Popery, but the nursery of infidelity. I have already referred to the rise of infidelity in this country, at the beginning of the last century. Among the writers whish I would qaote to prove my statements are members of the Church of England- Arthur Ashley Sykes, was the Parson of Radleigh, in Essex, who did his part to nourish infidelity in the last century, although he professed to write against it. Was not Dr Conyers Middleton a Church. man who, according to the opinion of his age. was an infidel, although he called himself a fiee-thinker ? What was Matthew Tindal better than an infidel? He was the son of a clergyman in Devonshire, and mostly brought up in Lincoln College, Oxford, and a Fellow of All Souls' College in that place to the end of his life. If we come down to our days, we see that the Establishment has been the nursery of sentiments the most extreme. Was not Professor Newman an infidel ?—the brother of John Henry Newman, the father of Puseyite Newmania. Both started out from Oxford. Were not the authors of Essays and Reviews ministers of good standing in the Church of Eeg- land ? And the legal decision in their case proves that a man may be a minister in the Church of England, and yet deny the superhuman element in the Scriptures, Is not Colenso at this day a bishop in the Church Establishment! If all this is not sufficient to show the infidel tendency of the Established Church, let us hear what some of its best supporters say. The Times, which may surely be ac- counted on the side of the Church, says. It la now established tbat a clergyman of the Church of England may teach any doctrine within limits which only extreme subtlety can distinguish from Roman Catholicism on the one side, or Calvinism on another side, and from Deism on a third side." Canon Ryle says, "No better argument can he used against the endowments of the church, than the fact that these endowments are put into the pockets of men who laugh at the 39 articles despise the doctrines of the re- formed church, and trample under foot and almost spit upon its great formularies-" The Rev Charles Gregory, of Chelsea, sars, .C we are no longer a Protestant church but a church in which anything and everything may be held and taught with impunity: from the limits of extreme Popery to those of almost utter infidelity." Among the broad party in the church, we find men of all opinions. Mr Evans, says that the church never intended to secure uni- formity of opinion. If so, why then was the act of uniformity passed ? (Laughter and applause). Why were 2000 of the best men in the church, turned out for refusing to conform ? (Hear hear). Why is every clergyman asked to subscribe to the articles of the church if the church was never intended to accure uniformity. (Cheers). Everybody knows that it does not secure uniformity, but everybody knows as well that it has attempted to do so, and in that also it has proved a failure. There are within the church, men as far from each other as the East is from the West. -Socinians, Sabelians, Arminians, Calvinians, Antino- mians, Papists, Ritualists and Protestants. (Laughter). Thev all managed to remain in the same church, though hating each other and doing their best to crush each other out. They nevertheless all agree in one thing- Y fuwch a'r arth a borant yngbyd." (applause.) Is it not htgh time, then, that the connection between Church and State should be brought to an end ? (Loud applause.) As Mr John Bright said, "It has for gener- ations stood in the way of all social, political, and religious improvements and the ministers of the Church bad always sided with the oppressors against the oppressed." Was it not this Church that took John Penry from his dinner to the gallows? Was it not this Church that persecuted the Nonconformists in the days of Charles II? Was it not this Church that filled the prisons of Montgomeryshire and Merionethshire with honest quakers so that there was no room for thieves and murderers ? (Applause.) Was it not the clergymen of the Established Church who were the chief persecutors of the revivalists of the eighteenth century ? Was it not the influence of parsons and curates of the Established Church in Wales that provoked the land owners to turn out their honest tenants fimply because they voted according to the dictates of their own conscience. (Tremendous cheering.) But, happily, there are ^stha the Established Church is coming to an enu. (Cheers.) The country cannot suffer it much longer. (Applause.) We have already secured a number of privileges, such as the opening of the universities to Dissenters, and other rights, and we don't intend to rest until we have accomplisb-d that to which we have now put our hands. (Loud ap- plThe Kev. JOHN JONES, Felinfoel, was the next speaker. He said he was ^lad to be present on such an occasion as the present in Machynlleth, the subject of Disestablishment and Disendowment having attracted so much attention. He was quite settled in his own mind as to the final result of the struggle in which they had participated, knowing as he did what side the clergymen had taken. It was always the case that when the clergy took any side, either to ad- vocate or oppose any popular demand, that demand would be very soon granted. He wished the meeting to clearly understand that as a rule clergymen were opposed to almost every popular demand that had been made during the last fifty years. He also dsired it to be understood that there were certain points upon which they all agreed, and one was that the Liberation Society did not oppose episcopacy as episcopacy, but their whole force was levelled against estab lishmert. ititar, hear.) There were, speaking generally some hundreds in the Church of England itself who advocated disestablishment but not disendowment. They wanted to be relieved from State control, and at the same time to retain the endow- ments. There was a large amount of endowments belonging to the Established Church, and these endowments consist, according to Blunt's Book of Parish Law, of parish churches, collegiate and cathedral churches, parsonages, crlehe lands episcopal land?, sums of money l 't, ana fithes He wished for a short time to call attention more especially to the latter class of endowment. According to a return in tbe blue book, presented by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners the annual sum paid to clergymen amounted to PI 08&G00 odd Tbat sum represented only what was paid toToymen. The sum of £ 961,000 odd was also paid to lay patrons in the Church. Now, taking the n'st sum at twenty-seven year's purchase, which he considered fair, the amount represented by the sum would be ove* eighty three millions. According to a return moved for by Lord John Manners in Parliament some time ago there was a large portion of land which had not been included. Tak- ing the replies into consideration, and the land at £ 70 per acre. it amousited with the other sum to over one hundred and ten millions sterling in round numbers Then caiae the question, "Whose property is this ?" The sup- norters of the Chusih of England claimed it as their pri- vate property but the Liberation Society said it was pub- lie property. The question to be decided, therefcee, was whether the endowments were private or public property ?' By private property he meant property given by individuals for especial religious purposes. A large sum, whrever the line of demarcation was to be drawn, belonged to the Church of England, as much as the private endowments of Nonconformists belonged to them With this difference, however, the Church was a pubhc establishment while the Nonconformists churches were simply the free churches of the land. (Hear, hear.) It was quite trUe that thf amount to which he had called their attention was not presented in the annual Budget, but it was equally true that the Ecole. siastical Commissioners laid on the tible of the House of Commons a blue book containing an account of the revenues of the Church of England not annually, but occasionally. By public property he understood property that had been given by the State for religious purposes or by private indi- viduals for public purposes—(hear, hear)—and that once the property was given it became public property to all intents and purposes. He instanced a case in which a person had given an endowment to a church in London, but finding out afterwards that the clergyman was a Ritualist, the donor desired to interfere. He asked the Court to support him, but the decision was that having the property, although it was private, to public pur- poses, he had no control over it afterwards. Now the question came, whether the tithes belonging to the establishment were public or private property ? The pro- position he would lay before the meeting was that the State claimed a right and' had exercised that right from time immemorial, to control the revenues of the established Church by a series of Acts of Parliament and otherwise. In order to prove his proposition he intended to read his- tory backwards in the same way as they read Hebrew. In the year 1869, Parliament disestablished and disendowed the Irish Church, not in the capacity of a trustee, but as a proprietor. A large number of curates went over to Ireland from England, and were appointed to curacies until the Disestablishment took place. They then com- muted a large sum as their own interest under the Act. They clergymen of the Church of England were in the habit of crying out about sacrilege, but why did they not cry out against that action on the part cf the curates ? He would give them as his authorities for the statements he had made use of, certain letters in the Times and the speech of Mr E. Jenkins, M.P. But to resume. In the year 1840 or thereabouts an Act was passed, and since theu a series of Acts appointing the Ecclesiastical Commissioners to control the revenues of the English Church. -A s a matter of fact he might mention that seven bishops were on the commission and took care to attend to themselves first. The larger share of the revenu-f went to them, while the poor curates had to ask for cast-off clothes (Laughter.) It was a fact that in a report of the Curates' Aid Society several curates were said to have had no flesh meat for one whole week. That, in itself, he con. tended, showed that the Established Church was a failure, and that consequently the supporters of the church would be compelled to revert to the voluntary principle. In the year 1836 an Act was passed called the Tithe Commu- tation Act, by which the tithe was made a rent charge upon the land. That Act had been amendeU seven times in order to regulate the payment of these rent charges. Passing over the succeeding reign, he would come to the time ot James II., when an attempt was made to re-establish Popery in the land. In the reign of Charles II. the revenue of the Church was handed over to the Episcopalians. In the reign of Elizabeth 9,800 odd clergym-n existed, out of whom not 1,000 rbfused to conforai to the Prayer Book and the Act of Uniformity. A urge imtnber 8f these clergy- men in the reign of Queen Mary petitioned her Majesty to re-establish Popery, confessing that they had erred egre- giously in establishing Protestantism in the reign of Edward VI. Going backwards to the time of Henry VIII. it would be found that by 27th Henry VI [I. cap. 20, a law was passed containing the following statements :—"And if te said laws were rectified and confirmed as is afore- said, that theu the said tithes to be paid to every ecclesias- tical person according to such laws and none otherwise." If the clergymen claimed chapter and verse for the Establishment he gave them that chapter and verse UDon which the clergymen of the Church of England based their title to the tithes. (Laughter.) If, then, they went back- ward to the time of William the Conqueror, they would find that a law was passad to regulate the paynient of tithes and to decide what were tithes. His successors, Stephen and Henry, were obliged to swear to that law. In 1032 Canute passed certain laws for the regulation of tithes, and his predecessor, Ethelred, in 1008 passed a law containing this clause—" We commend that every man for the love of God and all the Saints shall pay his church seat and tithes in the same manner as it was doue in those times of our predecessori3 when it was best done. That is that he pays for tithes every tenth acre the plough shall go over, and every other customaay due must be paid to mother church to which every man belongs for the love of God. And let no man take from God what belongs to God- ("hear, hear," from Mr Evans)-and which our prede- cessors have consecrated to Him." The claim that he set up for the payment of tithes was that every man belonged to the Church. The speaker hoped that, as Mr C. R. Jones had claimed to be a Churchman, he had paid his tithes, according to the law that bad been quoted. (Laughter.) That law was also based upon the fact that Ethelred's predecessors had consecrated the tithes to the service of .God. Now, he (the rev. speaker) said that the predecessons referred to were the kings who had reigned before Ethelred, and the consecration by them he took to mean that the tithes were consecrated by enactments. Laws had been passed by Edgar and Edmund and Athel- stan regulating the payment of tithes. According to Athelstan's law, should anyone refuse to pay to the Lord of the Manor together with the Sheriff, the Bishop's man was to take from the defaulter nine-tenths, leaving him only one-tenth and that the nine-tin hs were to be divided, four shares to the State, and five shares to the Bishop. Go- ing further back in history, the speaker found that the treaty made between Gurthrun tLe Dane and Alfred anti successively Kings of England—Gurthrun being a pagan it was necessary to have a treaty-gave the clergy the tithes. and in default of payment the tines were to be 20s and 30s respectively, either a Dan6 or an Englishman That was, he (Mr Jones) considered the establishment of the Church in the Kingdom. In the year 855 Erhelwolf made a law at the Winchester Council, at which there were pre- sent bishops, dukes, and people. The law contained the followin clause I grant as an offering unto God and the blessed Virgin and all the Saints a certain portion of my Kingdom to be held by perpetual right; that is to say the tenth part thereof." That was the grant of all the tithes of England to the Establishment. It was said by some that this grant was only a charter, but it seemed to him, granting for the sake of argument it was only a charter, that it was equal to the laws made at that time. It was also said by way of objection that it was the law of the king by which he gave tithes of his own private property to the Church. He had sriven the tithes of his own property in the previous year 854, at Wilton. The previous law had been passed by the Kiugs of Mercia and Northumberland in their parliamentary convention at which were present bishops, dukes, senators, and people. He left it to the clergy to reconcile the public enactments lasting over a period of 400 years with the theory of private endowments. The legal title was the only one upon which a clergyman could claim the tithes. No clergyman claimed tithes in a public court on the basis of the private theory, but he enforced his claim on the Acts of Parliament. (Cheers) Where were the title deeds ? The pious Saxon ancestors having given the tithes to the Church he should like to know where were the title deeds? If the. endowments were private the clergyman could produce the title deeds and could then claim the tithes as private property. (Applause.) Unless the deeds were produced he said the tithes were the public property of the nation. (Cheers.) The uuiform and general payment of tithes was another link in the chain of evidence to establish tie fact ot their being public pro perty. Iu the next place he would say that the payment of tithes was not of Divine appointment bun according to Eng- lish law. There was also evidence that tithes were pal wLmg £ eonto thf^pair Sth^chmcb,another'to the?miii" Tef Ind the third to the poor. Now he found that clergy, men were very active in etaimiug th°ir portion, but he should like to ask where was that which belonged to the poor' (Cheers.) If the private theory held good the poor persons could claim their portion as well as the cler°ymen (An plause ) He knew he should be referred to the Act' passed in the time of Queen Elizabeth, hut notwithstanding that he claimed for the poor their portion. He found that the tithes had not boen given to certain persons, but to systems. They were at one time given to the Papacy, and then to Episcopalians, and for service done to the State. The Liberation Society has no personal inter"st in the affair- They did not want endowments. (Applause). Before the disestablishment of the Church in Jamaica, an offer was made to the committee of the Bap. tist Missionary Society of a portion of the Jamaica church endowments, which by the levelling-up system would fall to their lot. He believed the same offer had been made to other societies but speaking from his own knowledge of facts the Baptist. Missionary Curate in London refused the enlowment offered them in Jamaica. (Applause). That being the case he trusted he should hear no more of tht mercenary motives attributed to the society. In taking up the question of Disestablishment he had the public interest in view, and he said Let justice be done though the heavens fall." (Applause.) Instead of taking down their fl tg they would nail it to the mast j and if they must perish they would perish upon the ship in which they were now fighting (Cheers.) There was, however, no. fear of that, for they had the eternal principlesof truth aud justice on their side. Their forefathers in England and Wales fought and won the battle of religious liberty;, it was thei's to win the battle of religious equality. (Applaue.) That they were prepared to da, under the conviction that they were doing right, and that victory would be on their side. Their ob- ject being principles not persons, let them brsce themselves up for the fight which was now beins1 waged all over the land and he trusted that the time wonll soon come when the question would be seriously and deliberately taken up by Parliament, and finally and satisfactorily set- tled—(cheers)—and that he should have the pleasure of meeting his friends now on the other side, and of shaking them bv the hand, and wishing them God spead all a, f1-ee church io a free Country. That was a consummation he- devoutly pr«yed for. (Applawe.) The REV. JOSIAH- JONES,, Machynlleth, ia.a brief speech moved, that in the opinion of the meeting the t,ime had come for the disestablishment of the Church in England, Scotland, and Wales, a or* the meeting urged Parliament to take the matter into their serious consideration. The motion having been seconded by the REV. DftVID JONES, and supported by the KEY. Mr PUGH, it was car- support, ried amid tremendous applause. A vote of thauks to the speakers was carried, an the "ro tJr proposition of the rev. Is vviL.LjLa.jBi>> "in-is lnawQdwy, seconded by the Rev. R. EVANS, Penrhyncoch. The Rev. JOHN THOMAS proposed a vote of thanks to the Chairman. The Rev. Cam n GRIFFITHS seconded the motion, the Rev. D. WILIAM3 supported it, and it was carried. The CHAIRMAN acknowledged the vote, and the meeting afterwards separated.