The North Wales Express

LIBERAL MEETING AT CAR' t NARVON SPEECHES BY MR D.LLOYD GEORGE, M.P., MR H. LEWIS, M.P., AND MR J. BRYN ROBERTS, M.r. Mr Lloyd George, M.P. for the Car- Djrvon Boroughs, addressed a meeting of Liberal electors at the Guild Hall, Car- •^rvon, 011 Tuesday night. Some time fd elapsed since Mr Lloyd George's pre- vious visit to the town, and in the mean- I tune the war question had rent asunder the Liberal party. Mr Lloyd George, it he remembered, was in Canada when way broke out:. but as soon as he came ov«r to this country he pronounced his opinion upon the war, which he described tinjust. He subsequently appeared at in different parts of the kingdom to speak against the war, and in several Places he met with rough treatment. la his own constituency the other week Was roughly handled by a howling mob, 'he product of ignorant Conservatism. It Was freely stated that there would be a hostile demonstration at Carnarvon, O'e of a worse nature than at Bangor; but such was not the case, and the Carnar- 'V'll people have shown to the world that *hey hold sacred the ripht of free speech. ~^r George arrived in the town on Mon- day, and slept the ni?ht at the house of R. O. Roberts, the genial secretary of the Boroughs Liberal Association. In the afternoon of Tuesday he attended a feting of the Liberal Association at the Reform Club, and delivered a speech on Questions of the day. The evening meeting at the Guild Sail was timed to commence at 7.30, but ^he doers were besieged by an enthusias- tic crowd half an, hour earlier. In the aUdience were, many students from Ban- gor.-warm supporters of Mr George—and Whilst waiting for the proceedings to I Eminence they sang a number of ditties riacre or less nonsensical—in a way that students can. They and ethers the audience in a humorous mood, and any dissentient voice that might I have been raised would have beeu drowned the noise they made. At the ad- vertised time Dr Parry, the chairman, ap- peared on the platform, and he was fol- lowed by Mr D. Lloyd George and Mr J. Bryn Roberts, both of whom were greeted With loud and continued applause, a sec- tion of the audience singing "For they are jolly good fellows." Quiet having been restored, Dr Parry set the ball rol- ling; with a few very appropriate remarks. The doctor is an excellent speaker. He Can say the right thing in the right place, and this he did on Tuesday night. He deferred to the difference of opinion aJnong Liberals with respect to the war; but. he reminded his hearers that there ^ere other questions near to the hearts of Welshmen which would require the sup- Port in Parliament of a united Wales at 110 distant time, and he asked whether the Carnarvon boroughs were going to deject at the next election a gontlerhan Who had advocated the claims of Wales in the He use of Commons in a manner that bad won far him the admiration of all. Tbe worthy doctor brought his speech to a close by proposing a resolu- tion assprtinsr the right of free speech. Mr R. Norman Davies briefly seconded, and thp. irotion was unanimously adopted. Mr D. Lloyd George, the popular mem- ber, was next called upon to address the toeeting. As soon as he rose, the aud- ience broke out into tumultuous cheering, Which lasted for several minutes. In fact, the chairman had! to interfere to restore order,1 and he laughingly remarked that they would be there all night if they' Persisted in giving; such proofs of their enthns;asm. Mr Lloyd George, whose I face was beaming, must have been agree- ably impressed: with the reception he re- ceived, especially so when reports had been circulated that the Liberals in the borough were hopelessly divided on the Question of the war, and would not give him their support at the next election owing to the line of action he had taken. Though several Liberals do disagree with I Mr George on the South African question, Yet they are not so foolish as to withdraw their support from him and allow a Con- servative to become a member of Parlia- ment for the boroughs. Wales cannot expect anything from a Conservative Government—and the present 'Govern- ment has given proof of this—and it would be the greatest folly for a Liberal to vote for a Tory or to abstain from vot- ing because he disagrees with Mr Lloyd George on one question only—that of the War-while he agrees with, him on all other great questions affecting Wales and the country generally. What of Dis- establishment? What of I, land reform? What of reforms which working men asked for? These will not be granted by a Tory Government, hence the impor- tance that Liberals should rally round the old cause and again return Mr Lloyd George to Parliament with even greater majority than at the last election. Mr George, in his opening remarks, re- ferred to the Conservative meetings re- cently held in Carnarvon and Bangor, at which Mr E. Grey, M.P., Professor Alfred Hughes, Mr Carter, and others were the speakers. These gentlemen, it will be remembered, made attacks on Mr George, who now retaliated. He dealt with his critics in a merciless fashion, and held them up to ridicule. The gentleman who came in for the largest share of attention Was Professor Hughes, who was described as a dissector of insects. Mr George was sure that he was not a professor of history because he had shown such ignorance of torical facts in the course of his speech at historical facts in the course of his speech at Bangor. Mr George, in referring to Mr Gray, made a clever hit when he said that the Conservatives had selected this gentleman to address them because it was a schoolmaster they stood most in need of. As to Mr Carter personally, Mr George had not much to say, but he made good Use of a remark uttered' by that gentleman at Bangor in the course of a speech at the Pent hyn Hall meeting. He said that Mr George had had notice to quit, "but," said Mr George, on Tuesday night, "may I. be Permitted to remind him that he is not the first official of the Penrhyn Estate who has given notice to quit to Liberals for sticking to their opinions." He then re- ferred to the recent Penrhyn strike, and asked what had become of the leaders of the men. He supplied the answer by say- ing that they had notice to quit from the IVnrhyn Estate. Mr George having dis- posed of his three critics in a way that greatly pleased the audience, went on to speak of the war, and moved a resolution declaring that no settlement after the war Would be acceptable which involved the sup- pression of the national existence of the South African Republics. He pointed out that Mr Chamberlain had never accused the Boers of ill-treating natives, that the South African Churches had never passed any, re- solution on the question until the quarrel between- the Dutch and English five, years ago. The majority of the ministers of re- ligion in South Africa were against the war. It would be said they were Dutchmen, but as such they understood the language and character of the people. What had the clergy of the alien Church- of England said about Wales ? Welshmen should judge of others as they would themselves be judged. Mr George, who spoke in English and Welsh, was given an attentive hearing, and the general opinion was that the speech was a masterly eticrt. Mr Herbert Lewis and Mr Bryn Roberts/ who supported the resolution, delivered speeches full of interesting facts about the Transvaal. Mr Lewis said that whatever settlement was arrived' at they had to re- member above everything that they were a Christian nation, and that neither Rhodes nor the German Jew capitalist should have any share in the settlement. Mr Bryn Ro- berts remarked that the publication of the Spion Kop rdespatches was intended, he was afraid, to divert the indignation of the country for the authors of the war to the generals who were conducting it. He protested against the charges which had been made against the Boers of having mis- used the white flag, charges which, he con- tended, had not been proved, and which were made in order to inflame the passions of the people. The resolution was carried with only one dissentient, and at the close Mr George replied to a question why he had voted against the war supplies. In the course of his reply he said that Lord Ro- berts was stuck at Bloemfontein though he had a large army there, and he asked whose fault was it. Some one in the audience immediately replied, "The Boers," an un- expected answer which was greeted^ith loud laughter, and Mr George had, toBQmit that the remark completely baffled mm. A vote of confidence in Mr George, and a vote of thanks to the chairman, termina- ted the proceedings, which throughout were most orderly, and subsequently the three members drove off to Bryn Adda, the re- sidence of Mr Bryn Roberts. p THE MEETING. A meeting of Liberals was held at the Guild Hall, Carnarvon, on Tuesday night, under the presidency of Dr R. Parry (ex- Mayor), who was supported by Mr D. Lloyd George, M.P., Mr Bryn Roberts, M.P., and Mr xaerbert Lewis, M.P. Thie hbll was crowded, and the! proceedings were of quite an enthusiastic character. The Chairman, in opening the) proceed- ings, said that the meeting had been called in order to hear from the honourable mem- ber for t-hd boroughs an account of what he had done in Parliament during .the last ses- sion. It would be very easy for Mr Lloyd George to dilate upon the different questions which were near to the hearts of Welshmen in that assembly. These were questions which he (the chairman) was afraid were being lost sight of in these days by a great number of electors as the retsult of the war fever; but the time would come, and it might come soon, when the voice of a united Wales would be required to advocate their aspirations of Welsh nationality in the House of Commons, and hEl appealed to all Liberals in tlie borough of Carnarvon who had been reared in Liberal principles to assist in this being obtained (cheers). Would the Liberals, of Carnarvon Boroughs like the voice of their member to be silent in the House of Commons on Welsh questions ? (".No"). Hf quite admitted that upon the question of the war there was a great differ- ence of opinion among Liberals, and this meeting was called in order thiat they might discuss the matter, and hear Mr Lloyd George's views, more particularly in regard to the settlement which would have to be made when the war was over..He absolute- ly denied that they were antagonistic to the British Empire), or in favour of whittling away any part of it, as the present Govern- ment had done (applause). At a Conserva- tive meeting the othe'r night the doctrine that minorities when they disagreed with majorities should not express their opinions seemed to be preached rather loudly. The landlords of Wales held opinions diametri- cally opposed to those of a large majority of Welshmen, and it would be a bad day for them as a minority if the only argument which could be urged against them would be brickbats (cheeks). In conclusion the Chairman moved the following resolution: —"That this meeting of the Liberals of Car- narvon reasserts the righlt of British citizens to free discussion in public and in private, and expresses indignation with her Majesty's Government in its excuses of those who as- sault, in property and person, peaceable citizens in the exercise of their constitution- al rights." Mr R. Norman Davies seconded, and the resolution was passed unanimously. Mr Lloyd George, who was received with prolonged cheering, then moved the follow- ing resolution —"That this meeting em- phatically condemns the policy of Mr Cham- berlain, which' has led to the disastrous war now devastating South Africa, and causing the loss of so many thousands of brave lives and whilst it is of the opinion that it is in the interest of South Africa that disarma- ment and the concession of complete etiual rights between the white races should fol- low the conclusion of hostilities, it protests against any settlement which would involve the suppression of the national existence of th-e Republics." Mr George said that that was not the only political meeting that had been held in the district within the last few days. A meeting had been held in thlat. town and another at Bangor in support of the Tory policy, and his first duty was to congratulate their Conservative friends upon the judiciousness and discrimination with which they selected their chief speaker (laughter). He was referring to Mr Gray, M.P. He believed Mr Gray was a school- master, and the men who selected a school- master to address an audience of Carnarvon- shire Conservatives understood what such audiences stood most in need of (cheers, and a voice: "Twice two are four," and laughter). He (Mr George) was sorry Mr Gray had left his cane behind him (laughter), or perhaps he had sent it on before to the man who used it on his (Mr George's) hat at Bangor (great laugh- ter). There was another reason why he thought that the selection of Mr Gray as a speaker at the Bangor meeting was a most appropriate one. He had met him pre- viously on the Parliamentary platform, and it was the same battle—the battle for the RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH on the sands at Rhyl (cheers). They gave Mr Gray and his party a good thrashing on that occasion, and they would give them another good thrashing in the Carnarvon Boroughs (loud cheers). So much for Mr Grat (loud laughter). But there was also at the Bangor meeting a le'arned professor ("Oh, oh")—whQ some years ago practised the art .of public speaking at the expense of the electors of North Carnarvonshire, but the quarrymen of Carnarvonshire—a very intelligent set of politiciaiis-seint him back to. his studies (laughter). That was four years ago, and judging by his speeches last week he did not appear to have made much progress. This gentleman seemed to have got some extraordinary notions about history. He did not know what this gentle- man was a professor of. If be was a pro- fessor of history ^ie would be very sorry for his students (laughter). But he believed hie had something to do with the dissecting of insects (loud laughter). If so, he, too, was a very proper man to speak at a Conserva- tive meeting (laughter and cheers). Well, that gentleman had challenged one of the propositions he (Mr Lloyd George) had made. He (Mr George) had said there was not a single case of the suppression of the in- dependence of a white community since the annexation of Poland, and if Britain put an end to the independence of the Orange Free State, they would be the first Power to do it since then. They would be beginning the twentieth century by a reversion to the policy of Russia when that nation was just emerging from barbarism. That was his proposition. The professor at the Bangor Conservative meeting scouted it, and said that he (Mr Lloyd Georgei) did not seem to know anything about Alsace and Lorraine, Finland, or Cuba. Just let them think of that learned professor. Alsace and Lor- raine were provineet of France, and were not independent provinces. Finland had not been independent for over seven Jiundred years, and yet fancy this learned professor — this most learned professor — (laughter)—never knew that (loud laughter and cheers). As for Cuba, anybody could have told him that Cuba hiad never been an independent white community. Ever since whites had populated it it had been a dependency of Spain, and it was now a der pendency of the United States, and-yet this learned professor had coolly invited the in- telligent Conservatives cf Carnarvonshire to believe that there was some comparison be- tween those cases. Such stuff was only fit for Conservative audiences (loud laughter and cheers, and a Voice: "He had better change his schoolmaster"). That was ex- actly the suggestion he was about to make. He did not blame the professor for taking a schoolmaster with him (laughter), but he would suggest that at his leisure he should take a few lessons in history (laughter and cheers). If that professor had gone to a small boy in the intermediate school at Car- narvon and asked that small boy a few ques- tions in, history, he would have saved him- self (laughter and cheers). Now, that pro- fessor had been posing before them as a secretary of the

WELSH HOSPITAL FUND, and a jolly mess he had made of that fund, but that professor had never told them I that he had asked him (Mr George) to collect for the fund and that he had done so and collected over one hundred pounds (loud cheers). The professor had not told them that the first subscription he (Mr George) had obtained for that fund was one of JE25 from Sir William Harcourt, who was opposed! to the war (loud cheers), and yet that man, who was perfectly aware of those facts, said that he (Mr George) had been insulting the Welsh soldiers, and he allowed other men as mean as himself to do the same thing when he knew that the response to this appeal from him was in his .(the speaker's) case a hundred times more effective than the response of those who cheered him when he made these charges. Another gen- tleman at the Tory meeting was a lawyer who gave the member for the Carnarvon Boroughs notice to quit (laughter). But this was not the first official of the Pen- rhyn estate who had given, notice to quit to Liberals-(cheers)-for sticking to their opinions. At Bethesda a week ago he spoke about the men who led that magni- ficent struggle for tibe rights of workmen, a struggle that thriiledl the heart of Bri- tain fromi end to end. He asked what became of the leaders of that combination -men of ability, character, and strength -who stood not for themselves but for their fellow-workmen? They had notice to quit from the Penrhyn estate ("Shame"). It. was meet and proper that one of the creatures of an estate which had given notice to quit to workmen for standing for the right of free combination to give notice to a member of Parliament for standing for the right of free speech (cheers). But there was g. material dis- tinction at the present moment. The Penrhyn quarry was the property of the Penrhyn estate, but the convictions of the electors of Carnarvon boroughs were their own rreehold. The Penrhvn writ did not run in the consciences of Carnarvon- shire people whatever it might do on the estate (loud cheers). But really what were the Tories coming to? In the last three elections JIe had met men whom Ale was proud to fight-his friends Sir John Pules- ton and Sir Hugh Ellis Nanney, one of ths most respected squires in Carnarvon- shire. What, he asked again were the Tories coming to now? (cheers). Refer- ring again to the charge that he had in- sulted British soldiers, he said that it was an absolute and unmitigated FALSEHOOD. He had never spoken of the British sol- diers without expressing admiration of their bravery, tenacity, and heroism. He asked upon what ground was the charge made against him? .-He would tell them what be did say, and it was the only ground upon which the charge was made. He said that the cheap patriots who went about howling, breaking up meetings, and smashing windows, instead of fighting themselves paid men to fight thte battles for them (cheers). These gentlemen were exceedingly tender about the soldiers, but they did not-mind sending them to be killed and to die of lingering illness or wounds (cheers). All this was cant and hypocrisy. Those who loved the soldiers were the men who thought their lives too precious to be squandered upon a miser- able squabble like this (applause). We had gone now beyond our first demands, and he earnestly appealed to them to reflect and consider before they embarked on a war of annexation. At first it was said that the war was to be for the rights of white men but there came the cry, "We want money: we want gold." To this Lord Salisbury replied, "We seek no goldfields and territory," but, the "Daily Mail" next day asked, "If we do not seek goldfields and territory, what do we seek ?" (laughter and hear, hear). At this stage Mr Herbert Lewis M.P., appeared on the platform, and was accor- ded an enthusiastic reception. proceeding,' Mr Lloyd George said he ventured to prophesy that the war would not end in two or three months, as had been said. Had Mr Bryn Roberts told them when he addressed a meeting in that hall some Anontbs ago that the Bri- tish army would only be in Bloemfontein now they would, have cried nonsense. They had now arrived/at the second stage of the war; and he would address himself to those who believed the war vwas a ]ust one, and he would rather, if they sup- ported the war, that they should believe in its justice, because it was subversive of every moral principle to support a war which was not believed to be just (cheers). We were in possession of one of the Boer capitals, so that the two Republics con- sidered they had been • sufficiently beaten to concede what we went to war for— equal rights for white men,—but now we were going in for

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SETTLEMENT IN THE TRANSVAAL. he knew what he was about, and Britain would find it to her cost after many years of fighting and friction in South Africa (cheers). He begged those who supported the war to consider carefully before they committed themselves to a policy which I would impose enormous extra burdens on our shoulders when we had now quite as much as we could manage. Let them,, think for a moment what was the position of Britain having regard to other nations. I We had not a single friend of any potency, Even America, which had been drawing towards us, was now against us. There was not a single country in Europe of any note I that supported the war. The greatest in- tellects in Europe condemned it—the great- est historian in Europe condemned it, and the greatest historian in England Mr Leoky—who was a Conservative, also con- demned it. France disliked us, and Ger- many hated us. The Liberal Press of Germany had gone against us, and, what counted for more, there was a rising tide I of public opinion against us in the United States, and one great party there was even committed to intervention. Were they sure that America would not be compelled by the overwhelming rush of public opinion I to intervene. That was a horrible thing to contemplate, and it was well to consider whether the annexation of two little com- j munities like this, inhabiting a barren J wilderness was worth all the bloodshed and bitterness' which a protracted war would mean (applause). He was told that we were fighting for the cause of humanity. There weire certain things for which he would be prepared to support Britain if necessary against the whole world. Britain stood practically alone against the des- potism of Napoleon.. Britain was right, and Britain conquered because she had right on her side (cheers). Britain may yet have to fight practically the whole world, and if she has right on ber Side she will yet con- quer (cheers). But was there anything in the course of the present war that would rouse sufficient moral enthusiasm in the people without which self-sacrefice was impossible? There was nothing ennobling in increased dividends, and the Outlanders 'would have had the franchise before the war, had it not been for the CRUEL BLUNDERING pf Mr Chamberlain—(cheers)—who disliked to be beaten over a matter of form by a farmer. As to the ill-treatment of the I natives, no-such charge had been made against the Boers until aften. the outbreak of war. It was like accusing a man when he was on the scaffold. That was British justice. He asked them to remember three things-naraely, that Mr Chamberlain had never in his despatches accused the Boers oi having ill-treated the natives, that none of the South. African Churches had passed any resolution on that question un- til the quarrel between the Dutch and En- glish five years ago, and that those natives wno had the franchise in our colonies always I voted for Dutchmen in preference to En- J glishmen. He also asked them to remem- j ber that the majority of the ministers of religion in South Africa were against the war. Ah, but it would be said that these were Dutchmen. Yes, and as such they Understood the language and character of the. people (hear,^fiear). What had the clergy of the aliea Church of England said about Wales (A voice: "Lies")? Who knew the W.elshi people better? Their own ministers who spoke their language and had risen from their rankst, or the English ) parsons wilo came to fatten on Welsh tithes, knowing nothing and sympathising not at ail with the language, traditions, and character of the people? (hear, hear). Let Welshmen judge of others as they them- selves would be judged (loud applause). He (the speaker) belonged to a small nation, and he wanted fair play for small nations (cheers)- The powerful nation would trample upon us unless we fought for our rights. People who did not know the Dutch and their language suspec- j ted them, but he would rather j believe people who knew them and had been with them. Most of the missibli work in South Africa was done by the Dutch, who gave more towards mission work than the i English. As to the statement that the government of the Transvaal was corrupt, J he ventured to say that there was more cor- I ruption in this country, and they need not f go elsewhere to look for it. With the ex- I ception of the Duke of Norfolk and the son I of Lord Salisbury, the British Cabinet had contributed nothing to the war of which J they were the authors, but, with two ex- ceptions — one an old man of nearly eighty I years of age—every member of the Trans- vaal Executive had taken the field, and two of them had died in defence of their country — one of them in battle and the other the noble-minded Joubert (applause) — under the weight of the campaign. Every man and every boy in the Transvaal had shouldered their rifles in proof of their convictions. This was not the stuff that cowards were made of, and such men had a right to a hearing from the public of this country. In concluding, he again ap- pealed to the people of Wales themselves, a little nation that had fought for centuries for their rights, not to take part in the work of extinguishing these two little Re- publics of South Africa (applause). Mr Herbert Lewis, who was very cor- dially received, said that he was proud to stand on that platform with the man who I had represented the Carnarvon Boroughs in three Parliaments — (cheers) — and who had always spoken out his mind and con- science without fear or favour (cheers). i However unpopular the course he took J might for the moment appear he ventured I to say that men of integrity of that kind were rare and precious. It would be neither right nor wise, as fortunately it was not possible, to close the mouth of such a man (cheers). He said it was easy to make confident predictions as to the peace and tranquility that were to follow the present war. Forty years ago John Bright had made a protest against the war very similar to the present, and almost the whole country was against him, and his constitu- ency rejected him. Now everybody ad- mitted that John Bright was right in his views, and in ten or twenty years hence the nation would endorse the protests now being made against the present war. In view5 of this fact, it was only right that freedom of speech should be allowed to all j who wished calmly to discuss the situation (applause). That was what 1 PARLIAMENT, PRESS, AND PLAT- j FORM were for. Owing to a technical point, Par- liament had not been able to discuss the question properly (hear, hear). As to the Press in South Africa, the greater portion of it was in the hands of Cecil Rhodes, and had been poisoned at its very source. In this country it was a matter for deep re- gret that men like Mr Massingham (cheers) and Mr Cocke and Mr Spender had been driven from their editorial chairs in, London on account of their attitude on this question ("Shame"). And what about the platform? I Well, he thought that Mr Lloyd George I had had a better reception at Carnarvon that night- than anywhere else (cheers), but similar meetings elsewhere had been assailed and attacked up by mobs (Shame). It was for the safety of the country and for the future well-being of South Africa that public men should have the right to discuss that question. There were alter- natives between complete independence on the one hand and complete subjection on the other. These at all events should be considered. Whatever settlement was arrived at we should not forget we were a Christian nation. If we adopted the old Roman maxim, "Woe to the conquered," the Bri- tish Empire would soon go the way of the Roman Empire (cheers). He hoped that the Liberal party in this country would not forget Liberal principles. What did they hear now-a-days? They actually heard a demand from South Africa for the suppression of the Dutch language in courts of law and in Parliament. We must remember that the English language i was not the only language. There were other languages besides, and they had, for instance, seen the Welsh language treated with great injustice in this country of theirs. Dealing with the after-settle- ment, Mr Lewis claimed that the previous excellent rule of the Free State Govern- ment, and its loss of Kimberley by the scandalous action of the British Govern- ment, entitles it to more than justice at the hands of the British Government. It deserved generosity. Whatever settle- ment they arrived at, neither Rhodes nor the German Jew capitalist should have any share in it (hear, hear). As to the grievances on such questions as language, corrupt government, monopolies, liquor laws, and the endowment of religion against the will of the people he, which were alleged to have been the cause of the war in South Africa, he found very similar causes for complaint in this country. Yet we had no war (cheers). A great point made against the Transvaal was that the minority governed the majority. He asked what had been their complaint in Wales all these years? Their complaint had been that while the present Govern- ment had been in power the minority had been governing the majority in Wales (cheers). There were 25 Welsh Liberal members against Dine Welsh Conservative members in the House of Commons, butT any claim put forward on behalf of Wales by the former was defeated. And before they went to South Africa with Maxim guns and 250,000 troops to force the' Boers there were certain things in our own country that re- quired to be remedied. The Government were going to ridel into power a,t the next election on the patriotic horse. The object was to snatch party advantage out of the victor- ies of the British arms. They would ask the electors to forget all the criminal folly and ineptitude they had shown with regard to the eonduct of the war. They would ask the electors to forget the omission to fulfil pledges that were made at the last general election on the strength of which they were returned to power. They would also expect the electors to forget the follies of their foreign policy, which had resulted in British trade being crippled in different parts of the world. Had the same thing happened un- der a Liberal Government they would never have heard the last of it (hear, hear). The responsibility for the MISTAKES IN DIPLOMACY that the present Government had made was tremendous. Their defence was that they knew no more than the man in the street (laughter). Mr Froude had said that all the present trouble had arisen from the an- nexation of Kimberley, which was formerly in the t'r State, by the British Govern- ment. Referring to the claim made by the Government that its hands had been tied by the Jameson Raid, Mr Lewis said our hands were tied by the fact that the man who had broken hi" oath as a Privy Council- lor had still been allowed to remain a mem- jberof Her Majesty's Privy Council "Shame") I In conclusion, Mr Lewis expressed the hope that when the next election came the Lib- erals of the Carnarvon Boroughs would be loyal to Mr George, even though they did not now see eye to eye with him (loud cheers). Air Bryn Roberts, M.P., supported the resolution, and defended the attack made upon him and Mr George. All they had done was to criticise the policy of the Government, an attack which he denied affected the fortunes of the war in any shape or form. He said he was afraid the Govern- ment, in publishing the Spion Kop II despatches, desired to divert the rising in- dignation of the country for the authors of the war to the Generals who were conducting it (cheers and "Shame"). Mr Roberts dealt with the evidence upon which the war was believed to be the result of a capi- talist plot, and pointed out at length how easily mistakes about the white flag might be made in cases where a fight covered ten miles of ground, when the combatants were scattered parties only occasionally visible, and when the snfokeless powder gave no clue to the direction from which bullets came. Charges of misuse of the white flag were made against both sides, and both sides h'e believed were guiltless of intention to break the usages of honourable warfare. It was monstrous that such charges should be used, as they had been in this country, to blacken the character of the Boers (cheers). He hoped the general election would turn upon the justice cr injustice of the war, and that the electors would visit the punishment on the right shoulders those of Mr Chamberlain and the Tory Cabinet (cheers). The proposition was carried with only one dissentient. On the motion of Mr J. T. Roberts, sec- onded by Mr Daniel Rees, a vote of con- fidence in Mr Lloyd George was unanimously passed. Mr Lloyd George, in responding, said he had been asked why he had voted against the Government receiving supplies for the war. He and his friend, Mr Bryn Roberts, did so because it was a perfectly logical stand. If by doing so they were traitors they were in ( good company. Lord Chatham, John, Bright, and the most noble example of all, j Mr Joseph Chamberlain, were traitors too, j for they all voted against supplies to pro- I secute a war—(cheers)—-because they dis- | approved of the war (cheers). Even were he in favour of this war he would not vote a sixpence to a Government which had so mismanaged it,and h/ad the Opposition been successful they would have turned out this I miserable Government and brought in another who would have applied thte money properly, honestly, and for a faithful pur- I pose (cheers). The hon. member then moved a vote of thanks to the Chairman, I which was carried by acclamation. At the close of tho meeting, Mr Lloyd George and his two companions, Mr Bryn Roberts and Mr Herbert Lewis, entered a carriage which was within a cordon of police. As the carriage moved through the crowd the constables moved forward; also dividing the throng. Thus the vehicle passed out I of Eastgate street into Bangor street, and I tbemce to the main road to the residence of Mr Bryn Roberts at Bangor. I

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ANNEXATION, • and he earnestly asked those who disagreed J with him to pause and reflect before they < sanctioned the country's embarking upon a war of annexation (cheers). The Boers were a stubborn race, who fought Spain for a hundred years, and who so exhausted the power of that country that it had de- clined. ever since. The ancestors of the Boers were fighting then for a religious I issue, but race was even deeper than re- ligion, as the case of Ireland proved. We were embarking on a war of an- nexation which might become a.1 war of extermination: Where was this war, which was costing between six and eight millions a month, going to end ? We could not exterminate the Boers, and when Pretoria, had been captured it would take 50,000 troops to occupy the two Re- publics. Talking about insults to soldiers led him to say that the Government were paying the Colonial troops, whose battles we were fighting, 5s a day, while our own soldiers received Is 2d a day, the Welsh 1 Fusiliers included, who made that magni- ficent fight (cheers). He could not but 1 feel proud' as a Welshman that the Welsh 1 national regiments were the only ones > not represented now in Pretoria (cheers), j They had not been caught; they were I smarter than the Boers even (hear, hear). I When Mr Bryn Roberts and himself raised in the House of Commons, the question of the disparity in the payment made to the soldiers in South Africa, the very men who said that they had were insulting the sol- diers were those who put them down (hear, hear). It was said that the war would be I over when we had conquered the Boers. Such was not likely to be the case. No I race worth its salt would accept defeat as long as they could fight (hear, hear). There « was Ireland for instance. Seven hundred 1 years had gone by since they conquered Ireland; and they had not conquered it yet (laughter and hear, hear). The reason why was because the Irish were a proud, people, a people with deep national convictions. We would never conquer a race like that except by winning their affections (cheers). Mr Gladstone discovered that; and by the way there was nothing more amusing than the way Tory speakersi talked about Mr Gladstone., The deceased statesman was now patronisingly alluded to by men who were not fit to blacken his boots—men like the professor, who did not know the ele- ments of history, and Mr Gray. These men said that Mr Gladstone knew nothing. Lord Salisbury, on the other hand, spoke of the late statesman as the greatest intellect ever placed at the service of the State. When Mr Gladstone made that