The North Wales Express

LIBERAL MEETING AT CAR' t NARVON SPEECHES BY MR D.LLOYD GEORGE, M.P., MR H. LEWIS, M.P., AND MR J. BRYN ROBERTS, M.r. Mr Lloyd George, M.P. for the Car- Djrvon Boroughs, addressed a meeting of Liberal electors at the Guild Hall, Car- •^rvon, 011 Tuesday night. Some time fd elapsed since Mr Lloyd George's pre- vious visit to the town, and in the mean- I tune the war question had rent asunder the Liberal party. Mr Lloyd George, it he remembered, was in Canada when way broke out:. but as soon as he came ov«r to this country he pronounced his opinion upon the war, which he described tinjust. He subsequently appeared at in different parts of the kingdom to speak against the war, and in several Places he met with rough treatment. la his own constituency the other week Was roughly handled by a howling mob, 'he product of ignorant Conservatism. It Was freely stated that there would be a hostile demonstration at Carnarvon, O'e of a worse nature than at Bangor; but such was not the case, and the Carnar- 'V'll people have shown to the world that *hey hold sacred the ripht of free speech. ~^r George arrived in the town on Mon- day, and slept the ni?ht at the house of R. O. Roberts, the genial secretary of the Boroughs Liberal Association. In the afternoon of Tuesday he attended a feting of the Liberal Association at the Reform Club, and delivered a speech on Questions of the day. The evening meeting at the Guild Sail was timed to commence at 7.30, but ^he doers were besieged by an enthusias- tic crowd half an, hour earlier. In the aUdience were, many students from Ban- gor.-warm supporters of Mr George—and Whilst waiting for the proceedings to I Eminence they sang a number of ditties riacre or less nonsensical—in a way that students can. They and ethers the audience in a humorous mood, and any dissentient voice that might I have been raised would have beeu drowned the noise they made. At the ad- vertised time Dr Parry, the chairman, ap- peared on the platform, and he was fol- lowed by Mr D. Lloyd George and Mr J. Bryn Roberts, both of whom were greeted With loud and continued applause, a sec- tion of the audience singing "For they are jolly good fellows." Quiet having been restored, Dr Parry set the ball rol- ling; with a few very appropriate remarks. The doctor is an excellent speaker. He Can say the right thing in the right place, and this he did on Tuesday night. He deferred to the difference of opinion aJnong Liberals with respect to the war; but. he reminded his hearers that there ^ere other questions near to the hearts of Welshmen which would require the sup- Port in Parliament of a united Wales at 110 distant time, and he asked whether the Carnarvon boroughs were going to deject at the next election a gontlerhan Who had advocated the claims of Wales in the He use of Commons in a manner that bad won far him the admiration of all. Tbe worthy doctor brought his speech to a close by proposing a resolu- tion assprtinsr the right of free speech. Mr R. Norman Davies briefly seconded, and thp. irotion was unanimously adopted. Mr D. Lloyd George, the popular mem- ber, was next called upon to address the toeeting. As soon as he rose, the aud- ience broke out into tumultuous cheering, Which lasted for several minutes. In fact, the chairman had! to interfere to restore order,1 and he laughingly remarked that they would be there all night if they' Persisted in giving; such proofs of their enthns;asm. Mr Lloyd George, whose I face was beaming, must have been agree- ably impressed: with the reception he re- ceived, especially so when reports had been circulated that the Liberals in the borough were hopelessly divided on the Question of the war, and would not give him their support at the next election owing to the line of action he had taken. Though several Liberals do disagree with I Mr George on the South African question, Yet they are not so foolish as to withdraw their support from him and allow a Con- servative to become a member of Parlia- ment for the boroughs. Wales cannot expect anything from a Conservative Government—and the present 'Govern- ment has given proof of this—and it would be the greatest folly for a Liberal to vote for a Tory or to abstain from vot- ing because he disagrees with Mr Lloyd George on one question only—that of the War-while he agrees with, him on all other great questions affecting Wales and the country generally. What of Dis- establishment? What of I, land reform? What of reforms which working men asked for? These will not be granted by a Tory Government, hence the impor- tance that Liberals should rally round the old cause and again return Mr Lloyd George to Parliament with even greater majority than at the last election. Mr George, in his opening remarks, re- ferred to the Conservative meetings re- cently held in Carnarvon and Bangor, at which Mr E. Grey, M.P., Professor Alfred Hughes, Mr Carter, and others were the speakers. These gentlemen, it will be remembered, made attacks on Mr George, who now retaliated. He dealt with his critics in a merciless fashion, and held them up to ridicule. The gentleman who came in for the largest share of attention Was Professor Hughes, who was described as a dissector of insects. Mr George was sure that he was not a professor of history because he had shown such ignorance of torical facts in the course of his speech at historical facts in the course of his speech at Bangor. Mr George, in referring to Mr Gray, made a clever hit when he said that the Conservatives had selected this gentleman to address them because it was a schoolmaster they stood most in need of. As to Mr Carter personally, Mr George had not much to say, but he made good Use of a remark uttered' by that gentleman at Bangor in the course of a speech at the Pent hyn Hall meeting. He said that Mr George had had notice to quit, "but," said Mr George, on Tuesday night, "may I. be Permitted to remind him that he is not the first official of the Penrhyn Estate who has given notice to quit to Liberals for sticking to their opinions." He then re- ferred to the recent Penrhyn strike, and asked what had become of the leaders of the men. He supplied the answer by say- ing that they had notice to quit from the IVnrhyn Estate. Mr George having dis- posed of his three critics in a way that greatly pleased the audience, went on to speak of the war, and moved a resolution declaring that no settlement after the war Would be acceptable which involved the sup- pression of the national existence of the South African Republics. He pointed out that Mr Chamberlain had never accused the Boers of ill-treating natives, that the South African Churches had never passed any, re- solution on the question until the quarrel between- the Dutch and English five, years ago. The majority of the ministers of re- ligion in South Africa were against the war. It would be said they were Dutchmen, but as such they understood the language and character of the people. What had the clergy of the alien Church- of England said about Wales ? Welshmen should judge of others as they would themselves be judged. Mr George, who spoke in English and Welsh, was given an attentive hearing, and the general opinion was that the speech was a masterly eticrt. Mr Herbert Lewis and Mr Bryn Roberts/ who supported the resolution, delivered speeches full of interesting facts about the Transvaal. Mr Lewis said that whatever settlement was arrived' at they had to re- member above everything that they were a Christian nation, and that neither Rhodes nor the German Jew capitalist should have any share in the settlement. Mr Bryn Ro- berts remarked that the publication of the Spion Kop rdespatches was intended, he was afraid, to divert the indignation of the country for the authors of the war to the generals who were conducting it. He protested against the charges which had been made against the Boers of having mis- used the white flag, charges which, he con- tended, had not been proved, and which were made in order to inflame the passions of the people. The resolution was carried with only one dissentient, and at the close Mr George replied to a question why he had voted against the war supplies. In the course of his reply he said that Lord Ro- berts was stuck at Bloemfontein though he had a large army there, and he asked whose fault was it. Some one in the audience immediately replied, "The Boers," an un- expected answer which was greeted^ith loud laughter, and Mr George had, toBQmit that the remark completely baffled mm. A vote of confidence in Mr George, and a vote of thanks to the chairman, termina- ted the proceedings, which throughout were most orderly, and subsequently the three members drove off to Bryn Adda, the re- sidence of Mr Bryn Roberts. p THE MEETING. A meeting of Liberals was held at the Guild Hall, Carnarvon, on Tuesday night, under the presidency of Dr R. Parry (ex- Mayor), who was supported by Mr D. Lloyd George, M.P., Mr Bryn Roberts, M.P., and Mr xaerbert Lewis, M.P. Thie hbll was crowded, and the! proceedings were of quite an enthusiastic character. The Chairman, in opening the) proceed- ings, said that the meeting had been called in order to hear from the honourable mem- ber for t-hd boroughs an account of what he had done in Parliament during .the last ses- sion. It would be very easy for Mr Lloyd George to dilate upon the different questions which were near to the hearts of Welshmen in that assembly. These were questions which he (the chairman) was afraid were being lost sight of in these days by a great number of electors as the retsult of the war fever; but the time would come, and it might come soon, when the voice of a united Wales would be required to advocate their aspirations of Welsh nationality in the House of Commons, and hEl appealed to all Liberals in tlie borough of Carnarvon who had been reared in Liberal principles to assist in this being obtained (cheers). Would the Liberals, of Carnarvon Boroughs like the voice of their member to be silent in the House of Commons on Welsh questions ? (".No"). Hf quite admitted that upon the question of the war there was a great differ- ence of opinion among Liberals, and this meeting was called in order thiat they might discuss the matter, and hear Mr Lloyd George's views, more particularly in regard to the settlement which would have to be made when the war was over..He absolute- ly denied that they were antagonistic to the British Empire), or in favour of whittling away any part of it, as the present Govern- ment had done (applause). At a Conserva- tive meeting the othe'r night the doctrine that minorities when they disagreed with majorities should not express their opinions seemed to be preached rather loudly. The landlords of Wales held opinions diametri- cally opposed to those of a large majority of Welshmen, and it would be a bad day for them as a minority if the only argument which could be urged against them would be brickbats (cheeks). In conclusion the Chairman moved the following resolution: —"That this meeting of the Liberals of Car- narvon reasserts the righlt of British citizens to free discussion in public and in private, and expresses indignation with her Majesty's Government in its excuses of those who as- sault, in property and person, peaceable citizens in the exercise of their constitution- al rights." Mr R. Norman Davies seconded, and the resolution was passed unanimously. Mr Lloyd George, who was received with prolonged cheering, then moved the follow- ing resolution —"That this meeting em- phatically condemns the policy of Mr Cham- berlain, which' has led to the disastrous war now devastating South Africa, and causing the loss of so many thousands of brave lives and whilst it is of the opinion that it is in the interest of South Africa that disarma- ment and the concession of complete etiual rights between the white races should fol- low the conclusion of hostilities, it protests against any settlement which would involve the suppression of the national existence of th-e Republics." Mr George said that that was not the only political meeting that had been held in the district within the last few days. A meeting had been held in thlat. town and another at Bangor in support of the Tory policy, and his first duty was to congratulate their Conservative friends upon the judiciousness and discrimination with which they selected their chief speaker (laughter). He was referring to Mr Gray, M.P. He believed Mr Gray was a school- master, and the men who selected a school- master to address an audience of Carnarvon- shire Conservatives understood what such audiences stood most in need of (cheers, and a voice: "Twice two are four," and laughter). He (Mr George) was sorry Mr Gray had left his cane behind him (laughter), or perhaps he had sent it on before to the man who used it on his (Mr George's) hat at Bangor (great laugh- ter). There was another reason why he thought that the selection of Mr Gray as a speaker at the Bangor meeting was a most appropriate one. He had met him pre- viously on the Parliamentary platform, and it was the same battle—the battle for the RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH on the sands at Rhyl (cheers). They gave Mr Gray and his party a good thrashing on that occasion, and they would give them another good thrashing in the Carnarvon Boroughs (loud cheers). So much for Mr Grat (loud laughter). But there was also at the Bangor meeting a le'arned professor ("Oh, oh")—whQ some years ago practised the art .of public speaking at the expense of the electors of North Carnarvonshire, but the quarrymen of Carnarvonshire—a very intelligent set of politiciaiis-seint him back to. his studies (laughter). That was four years ago, and judging by his speeches last week he did not appear to have made much progress. This gentleman seemed to have got some extraordinary notions about history. He did not know what this gentle- man was a professor of. If be was a pro- fessor of history ^ie would be very sorry for his students (laughter). But he believed hie had something to do with the dissecting of insects (loud laughter). If so, he, too, was a very proper man to speak at a Conserva- tive meeting (laughter and cheers). Well, that gentleman had challenged one of the propositions he (Mr Lloyd George) had made. He (Mr George) had said there was not a single case of the suppression of the in- dependence of a white community since the annexation of Poland, and if Britain put an end to the independence of the Orange Free State, they would be the first Power to do it since then. They would be beginning the twentieth century by a reversion to the policy of Russia when that nation was just emerging from barbarism. That was his proposition. The professor at the Bangor Conservative meeting scouted it, and said that he (Mr Lloyd Georgei) did not seem to know anything about Alsace and Lorraine, Finland, or Cuba. Just let them think of that learned professor. Alsace and Lor- raine were provineet of France, and were not independent provinces. Finland had not been independent for over seven Jiundred years, and yet fancy this learned professor — this most learned professor — (laughter)—never knew that (loud laughter and cheers). As for Cuba, anybody could have told him that Cuba hiad never been an independent white community. Ever since whites had populated it it had been a dependency of Spain, and it was now a der pendency of the United States, and-yet this learned professor had coolly invited the in- telligent Conservatives cf Carnarvonshire to believe that there was some comparison be- tween those cases. Such stuff was only fit for Conservative audiences (loud laughter and cheers, and a Voice: "He had better change his schoolmaster"). That was ex- actly the suggestion he was about to make. He did not blame the professor for taking a schoolmaster with him (laughter), but he would suggest that at his leisure he should take a few lessons in history (laughter and cheers). If that professor had gone to a small boy in the intermediate school at Car- narvon and asked that small boy a few ques- tions in, history, he would have saved him- self (laughter and cheers). Now, that pro- fessor had been posing before them as a secretary of the

WELSH HOSPITAL FUND, and a jolly mess he had made of that fund, but that professor had never told them I that he had asked him (Mr George) to collect for the fund and that he had done so and collected over one hundred pounds (loud cheers). The professor had not told them that the first subscription he (Mr George) had obtained for that fund was one of JE25 from Sir William Harcourt, who was opposed! to the war (loud cheers), and yet that man, who was perfectly aware of those facts, said that he (Mr George) had been insulting the Welsh soldiers, and he allowed other men as mean as himself to do the same thing when he knew that the response to this appeal from him was in his .(the speaker's) case a hundred times more effective than the response of those who cheered him when he made these charges. Another gen- tleman at the Tory meeting was a lawyer who gave the member for the Carnarvon Boroughs notice to quit (laughter). But this was not the first official of the Pen- rhyn estate who had given, notice to quit to Liberals-(cheers)-for sticking to their opinions. At Bethesda a week ago he spoke about the men who led that magni- ficent struggle for tibe rights of workmen, a struggle that thriiledl the heart of Bri- tain fromi end to end. He asked what became of the leaders of that combination -men of ability, character, and strength -who stood not for themselves but for their fellow-workmen? They had notice to quit from the Penrhyn estate ("Shame"). It. was meet and proper that one of the creatures of an estate which had given notice to quit to workmen for standing for the right of free combination to give notice to a member of Parliament for standing for the right of free speech (cheers). But there was g. material dis- tinction at the present moment. The Penrhyn quarry was the property of the Penrhyn estate, but the convictions of the electors of Carnarvon boroughs were their own rreehold. The Penrhvn writ did not run in the consciences of Carnarvon- shire people whatever it might do on the estate (loud cheers). But really what were the Tories coming to? In the last three elections JIe had met men whom Ale was proud to fight-his friends Sir John Pules- ton and Sir Hugh Ellis Nanney, one of ths most respected squires in Carnarvon- shire. What, he asked again were the Tories coming to now? (cheers). Refer- ring again to the charge that he had in- sulted British soldiers, he said that it was an absolute and unmitigated FALSEHOOD. He had never spoken of the British sol- diers without expressing admiration of their bravery, tenacity, and heroism. He asked upon what ground was the charge made against him? .-He would tell them what be did say, and it was the only ground upon which the charge was made. He said that the cheap patriots who went about howling, breaking up meetings, and smashing windows, instead of fighting themselves paid men to fight thte battles for them (cheers). These gentlemen were exceedingly tender about the soldiers, but they did not-mind sending them to be killed and to die of lingering illness or wounds (cheers). All this was cant and hypocrisy. Those who loved the soldiers were the men who thought their lives too precious to be squandered upon a miser- able squabble like this (applause). We had gone now beyond our first demands, and he earnestly appealed to them to reflect and consider before they embarked on a war of annexation. At first it was said that the war was to be for the rights of white men but there came the cry, "We want money: we want gold." To this Lord Salisbury replied, "We seek no goldfields and territory," but, the "Daily Mail" next day asked, "If we do not seek goldfields and territory, what do we seek ?" (laughter and hear, hear). At this stage Mr Herbert Lewis M.P., appeared on the platform, and was accor- ded an enthusiastic reception. proceeding,' Mr Lloyd George said he ventured to prophesy that the war would not end in two or three months, as had been said. Had Mr Bryn Roberts told them when he addressed a meeting in that hall some Anontbs ago that the Bri- tish army would only be in Bloemfontein now they would, have cried nonsense. They had now arrived/at the second stage of the war; and he would address himself to those who believed the war vwas a ]ust one, and he would rather, if they sup- ported the war, that they should believe in its justice, because it was subversive of every moral principle to support a war which was not believed to be just (cheers). We were in possession of one of the Boer capitals, so that the two Republics con- sidered they had been • sufficiently beaten to concede what we went to war for— equal rights for white men,—but now we were going in for

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ANNEXATION, • and he earnestly asked those who disagreed J with him to pause and reflect before they < sanctioned the country's embarking upon a war of annexation (cheers). The Boers were a stubborn race, who fought Spain for a hundred years, and who so exhausted the power of that country that it had de- clined. ever since. The ancestors of the Boers were fighting then for a religious I issue, but race was even deeper than re- ligion, as the case of Ireland proved. We were embarking on a war of an- nexation which might become a.1 war of extermination: Where was this war, which was costing between six and eight millions a month, going to end ? We could not exterminate the Boers, and when Pretoria, had been captured it would take 50,000 troops to occupy the two Re- publics. Talking about insults to soldiers led him to say that the Government were paying the Colonial troops, whose battles we were fighting, 5s a day, while our own soldiers received Is 2d a day, the Welsh 1 Fusiliers included, who made that magni- ficent fight (cheers). He could not but 1 feel proud' as a Welshman that the Welsh 1 national regiments were the only ones > not represented now in Pretoria (cheers), j They had not been caught; they were I smarter than the Boers even (hear, hear). I When Mr Bryn Roberts and himself raised in the House of Commons, the question of the disparity in the payment made to the soldiers in South Africa, the very men who said that they had were insulting the sol- diers were those who put them down (hear, hear). It was said that the war would be I over when we had conquered the Boers. Such was not likely to be the case. No I race worth its salt would accept defeat as long as they could fight (hear, hear). There « was Ireland for instance. Seven hundred 1 years had gone by since they conquered Ireland; and they had not conquered it yet (laughter and hear, hear). The reason why was because the Irish were a proud, people, a people with deep national convictions. We would never conquer a race like that except by winning their affections (cheers). Mr Gladstone discovered that; and by the way there was nothing more amusing than the way Tory speakersi talked about Mr Gladstone., The deceased statesman was now patronisingly alluded to by men who were not fit to blacken his boots—men like the professor, who did not know the ele- ments of history, and Mr Gray. These men said that Mr Gladstone knew nothing. Lord Salisbury, on the other hand, spoke of the late statesman as the greatest intellect ever placed at the service of the State. When Mr Gladstone made that