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i Saturday's Proceedings.
i Saturday's Proceedings. Thehaanog was resumed on Sitarday I morning at 10 o'clock, wh n De Marcus Sinolair Patterson was the first witness called for the Association, and his qualifications ware seal out by counsel as follows: Dootcr of Medicine with gold medal for a Thesis of his year, a Bachelor of Sargery, a member of the Royal College of Surgeons, Felfow of the Royal Sooiety of Medicine, Licentiate of the Royal College of Physioians, and a Medical Director to the King Edward Welsh National Memorial Association." Ia answer to questions, witness said he| was formerly house physician at Bromp- ion Hospital for Consumption, assistant. resident medical offlser at the same hospital, and finally resident medical effiaer. He was at 10 first superintendent of the Brompton Hospital Sanatorium at Frimley, a position which he occupied for seven years. He also was a mem bar of the Departmental Committee on Tuberculosis, and a member of the Advisory Council for Medical Research. At the International Congress held at Washington in 1908, he was awarded the first prize for an essay and exhibit on sanatorium treatments of early cases of tuberculosis, and another first priza for an essay and exhibit of a hospital for advanced cases at the same congress. At the International Congress of Hygiene, held in Germany in 1911, be was awardei the Ehren dip!oma for an exhibit showing sanatorium treatment of tuberculosis, and had also written ex- tensively to standard works on this sabjeot. j Continuing, Dr Patterson said he had Vlsiled the principal sanatoria in Great Britain, Europe and America, and had been frequently consulted by architects with reference to the construction of Panitoris and in the selection of suitable sites. Hs was the author of the treatment of consumption by way of graduated rest and exercise, and that treatment was car- ried out by him at Frimley with great scoceis, Describing how his attention was called to Pias Llangwyfan, witness said that whilst staying with Mr D S Davies at Plas Castell in Dseember, 1912, he noticed a spot where there was no trace of snow, though all other places were covered with it. That spot was Plas Llangwyfan. He had previously seen the spot, and had been impressed by it, but what he saw in Dseem- ber satisfied him that the place appeared to be a veritable sua trap, and was an ideal place for a sanatorium! and he recom- mended it as such to the Association. It was the best site he had seen anywhere in North Wales. Questioned as to the prospect from Plas Llangwyfan, witness said there was an exoelUot broad view to the north, south and west, which gave a great feeiing of openness. This of oourse was a very im- portant factor and had a very beneficial I effect upon the mental conditions of tuber- culosis patients. The Vale opposite Lian- gwyfan was very expansive, and the slope I of the ground was jast the right one for the buildings, and the patients woald in no sense feel shut in. An ample supply of water was available a qaarry on the pro- perty would provide the necessary building materials and graduated labour. There was a gentle ascent to the mountain, and every privacy, which greatly helped good discipline. Mr Artemus Jones As to the fear of infection which Mr Bohrens mentioned yesterday. What do you say to that ? Witness My own view is that open air danger of infection is practically nit. My I opinion is that there is not the slightest ground for fear. The building will be at least half a mile by road from Mr Behren's house, and the unanimous resolution of the departmental committee is to the effect that a properly conducted institution for the treatment of taberoulosis is not a source of danger." Replying to further questions, witness related his experiences at Frimley. There, as here, an objeation was raised by the owner of the adjoining property, his house being within a quarter of a mile. In spite of his protest the sanatorium was ereoted, and afterwards the person men. tioned and his family became the best friends of the institution. The man told him that the fears he had entertained were not in any way realised. The alternative sites mentioned by Mr Bahrens were not in any way comparable to Plas Llangwyfan, The institution proposed to be pat up would afford accommodation for 150 adults and 30 children. Counsel: It has been suggested that these children would be wandering about I and mingling with the village children and thus bring infection to others. Witness: That is one ot the things that I mast be prevented in a sanatorium, where a child is isolated daring the time that he could inoubate the disease and transmit it to other children. As regards discipline among patients. Are stepa taken to instruct patients to take care as regards infection ?-YBs. And they are provided with flasks in which they can deposit their sputum ?— That is so. We have heard ot something about the Welsh nature and the Saxon nature. What is year knowledge as regards the Welsh people being patients of this kind ?—They are better than the olass I have dealt with before. More amenable to reason ?-Not quite so crafty (laughter). Was it at yonr instance, and yours alone, that the Llangwyfan site was brought to I the attention of the Association ?—Abso- lutely. Concluding his evidence in chief, witness summed up his reasons in favour of the Llangwyfan site as follows:—(1) One broad | beautiful view, (2) fgunnineab, (3) seclusion, ? (4) excellent water supply, (5) that it r would not be interfered with by anybody, | (6) that there exists a unique opportunity I of carrying out graduated exerelaes, (7) [ that there was no possible danger of in- fectlon to Mr Behrens and his family. In cross-examination, Mr Atkinson asked whether Mr Behrens had offered to buy Plas Llangwyfan from the Association. j Witness said he could not say. I Mr Atkinson expressed surprise at the answer, and atked further whether it was not a fact that Mr Bshrens bsil offered to buy it from the Association for the sum I they paid for it ( £ 4 000), and had also promised to give an Gxtra R500 to meet any expense they had gone into ia connection with the purchase. Mr Artemus Jones said that the Associa- tion itself piid nothing for the site because of ths g»nerons action of Mr D S Divies in giving it. The susa paid was 94,350; Mr Davtaihavfng ia the first instance promised I the purchase money ap tJ the sum of JE5 000 (applause). i Wiineaa. replying to farther questions, admitted that there existed obj ectonl I among a section of the popnlaoe against sanatoria, but their objections were not justified. IliMr Atkinson Assuming that the Asso- ciation has the ahoice of other first olass sites, would it not be their daty to go to one where by cloing so they woold beinliot- ing the minimum amoano of Icjary to other people ? Witness No, it would not. Woald on suggest the maximum then P —Neither (laughter). Then yoa would go to none of them ?-I would go to the site which would be beab for the patients. As a doctor, my business is to get the patient) well, and f I would only consider the bait site to get them will. I w mid leave the other iiile of the matter to basins aa men. I woald not consider the other people at all (hear, hear and laughter). Witness s&id he considered the existence o? footpaths on the site and near it woald no1! be an argament again it pa'ting ap a sanatorium, although they might consti- tute some kind oi an obj motion. A long argument ensued between counsel tute some kind of an obj motion. A long argument ensued between counsel as to the footpaths, Mr Artemus Jones contending that the obj actors had not proved that they were public paths and that a public right of way exhted. "-The Commissioner upheld Mr Artamas Jones, and Mr Atkinson sail he would, later on, call evidence on the point. Dr Patterson, continuing his evidence, said that expectoration by patients on footpaths woald not be a souree of danger. It the f jotpatbs were In the middle of the country, tbe danger was practically nil. ¡ Mr Atkinson: It does not matter, I take it, whether it is in the country or town ?— Oi, yea, it does. The question of v; lighb ooalea in; bacilli die in the light Having such a large site as Plas Llan- gwyfan, the patients could be kept within the bounds of the sanatorium. Concluding his examination, witness gave his reasons for rejecting the Pentre and Ffon B3Ua sites. They had not the southerly aspect of Pias Llangwyfan, nor would they have the same amount of sun. WHAT HAPPENED AT ABERGELE. Mr E H Milhurd, assistant overseer and clerk to the Abergele Council, said that a public inquiry was held iu that town two sears ago as to the proposal of the S mth Manchester Gaardians to establish a sanatorinm at P as Uabs. The or inhabitants, including himself, were np ia arma against lb, and the opposition was very bitter beointe of the fear of infeotion, and that it woald serioasly ir j ue the town as a seaside resort. Tue site of the sanatorium was interseotad by many paths, j and the plaee itself was in close proximity to Abergele. Mr Arbsmai Jones: Has Abergele been mined ? Witness No, the other way about. It has been suggetted here that the I Abergele sanatoria en" had caused depre- ciation ot property. Is that a fac* ?— Nothing of the kind. Mr Birch told us yesterday that he was unable to sell any land owing to the I existence of the sanatorium ?—That would be dae to the excessive price asked for it, I perhaps. We have now deigns of appli- I cations for houses in fact more than we ever had before. The sanatorium was within two fislds of Sir Herbert Roberts' residence, and he never objaoted to it. Mr Taliesin Reea, recalled, explained certain details on the plans, and said it would be quite impossible to carry out the&e plans on either of the alternative sites. The sanatorium at Heswell, referred f to by Dr Nathan Raw, had not affected house property in that district. Mr E Rogers Jones, also recalled, proved the existence of pablio footpaths and roads on the Fron Bella site. FIVE MEDICAL WITNESSES, Dr Thomas Roberts, Couaty Medical Offiser of Health for Denbighshire, said he agreed generally with the medical evidence already given in favonr of the Llangwyfan site. The water supply was excellent. Dr Ernest Williams, Medical Officer for Flintshire, said the Llangwyfan sLe pre- < sented unusual advantages for the purpose I of a sanatorium. He did not think there won d be any fear of infection. Dr D J Morgan, Medical Qfliser for Glamorgan, said the Llangwyfan site was so sitaated that all the available sanshine could be collected by a sanatorium. From r this point of view it w s perfect. Dr Rocyn Jones, Medioal Officer for Monmouthshire, gave similar evidence. In every essential, he said, the Llangwyfan site was better than Pentre or Fron Bella. Dr Bardswell, another eminent authority who had served on the Parliamentary Da- partmental Commmittee, said he had had vast experience in the treatment of tubercu- losis, and had travelled the whole of Europe to atady the subject, and sana- toria in particular. He had visited the three sites in question, and found that Pias Llangwyfan site was a remarkably fine one in every respeot. From his ex. perience he could assure them that there would be no danger to the public or any-, one living close by from the proximity of a sanatorium. He knew of several sana- torlas in populous districts, and although the people living close by were averse of them at first they eventually became their warmest supporters. This closed the case for the Associa- finn. THE FOOTPATHS. Mr Atkinson, on behalf of tha objectors, called Mr Trevoi* Jones (Pat h-street), Mr Hagii Williams, Denbigh, and Mr David Jones, RhiwbobyU, who p oved having made use ot the footpaths in the neighbour- hood over twenty years ago. All were open to the public. COUNSEL'S ADDRESSES. Me Atkinsooj in addroehing the Com- missioner, said one casual fact ooold not be overlooked, viz,, that a tremendous amount of money would be lost through deprecia- tion of Mr Behrens' property and that of MidS Mainwaring. The very fact of having a large building near these properties, with a large colony of patients working Ai; graduated exercises, was bound to affect the telling value of property in a locality, and that would be a great injury to the owners. The fact that the site was inter- sected by so many public footpaths should also have great weight in the decision of the Commissioner. What was the use of inflicting this trnneosssary injury on Mr ..hrn¡ ? Beoause that gentleman OJn-
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Protest Against Home Rule…
Protest Against Home Rule Bill. On Friday evening, under the auspices of the local Habitation of the Primrose League, and of the Constitutional Union, a meeting was held at the Memorial Hall, Denbigh, to protest against the Home Kale Bill. I Mr E W Griffith, who presided, ) illustrated the dangers of Home Rula in a pithy story. A friend of his employed two parties of labourers, 20 from Ootk and 20 from Dublin, to put up some build-' ings. After work one evening the two parties engaged in a free fight, eventually stopped by the police. His friend's fore- man, on baing questioned next day, described it as a glorious fight, adding that it would have baen better still if it had not been stopped by them police. Next year they would have Home Rule, and there would be no police (laughter). That was one of the reasons for which Home Rule was wanted (renewed laugh- ter). Mr Jarrett began his address by allud- ing to the work of the Primrose League. There was no need to revive the league in Denbigh, because under the excellent guidance of a certain lady, it was very much alive (applause). Tney were one of the three constituencies in Wales that had an Unionise member, and at the next election they must return him by a much more substantial majority. Many people, even members of the league, thought that it was only an old women's tea party association. The league was started 33 years ago to keep alive the memory of Lord Beaconsfield, and at first women were not admitted to membership, but afterwards the men realized the assist- ance that they could give, and admitted them. Thirty years ago women did not take the same interest in politics as at present, and it was difficult to keep them interested. The Primrcs3 League waii the ftrst political association to start the social side, and at the present moment every Radical association had followed their example. The principles of the League were the maintenance of Religion, of the Constitu- tion, and of the British Empire. They had had seven years of Radical govern- ment. They had heard of the People's Budget and its rare and refreshing fruits he asked an audience the other day how much they had got of it,. One said that they had got the pip (laughter). He then referred to the insulting way in which the Prime Minister had received the Noncon- formist deputation. They knew that 15,000 Nonconformists in that diocese had signed the petition against robbery in that pernicious bill. If those m?n backed up their signatures in the ballot box, they would see a great change in the repre- sentation of Wales (applause). Referring to Home Rale, he said that the Act of Union was passed 114 years ago because, when Ireland had her own Parliament, she was always plotting to separate from England and to provide England's enemies a laading place. At the time of Napoleon's greatest power the Irish Parliament was plotting with France to help him against England. From 1906 to 1910 nothing was said about Home Rule for Ireland. If it was jast and proper, why did not the Liberal maj)rity bring it in when they had an enormous majority ? In 1910 the election resulted in 210 Conservatives and 210 Liberals being returned, and Mr Asquith, to form a government, borrowed 80 Irish votes, 89 Labour votes, and certain Welsh votes. If Home Rule was passed, every family in the country would have to find 17s a week to keep the Irish P&rliament going. Over a million people had signed a solemn covenant that they would not have Home Rule at any price. In Ulster they were making preparations j 100,000 men were drilling every night of their lives. They were not only giving up their time and pay in camp, bat they were subscribing to their own upkeep, and they were prepared to go to any extreme to resist being thrust cut of the Union, They only asked to be left alone (applause). If ever the Government dared to send soldiers to shoot down the Loyalists, they could only agree that the women and children had no voice in the matter and should be looked after. He asked them to look after the woman and children in such an event. They wanted to prove to the Prime Minister that the feeling of the country was against this iniquitous measure, and they were asking the people of Great Britain to sign a similar covenant to that signed in Ulster. He was sure that the old spirit of freedom was still aiive in Wales and would not ba trampled under foot by those who, calling them-, selves Liberals, fostered enmity and treason (loud applause). During the evening a capital musical programme was rendered by the Misses Roberts (Springfield), Miss Grantham, the Ghurcn Choral Society's party, and Mr Atkinson. Mrs Tumour played the accompaniments. The Chairman, at the oloae, proposed a oordial vote of thanks to Mr Jarrett, and to the musicians who had entertained them. Colonel Heaton, in seoonding, referred to the probability of a speedy election, in view of the small majorities the Govern- ment could command. The previous night their majority was brought down to 26 on the nupstion of makinp it Aaninr fir anUl.i-o 1 -0 UUlUiQlQ to marry off the strength, all the Labour party voting against it. It was abomin- able that members should have voted 4400 a year to themselves, and he believed only about nine members had felt sufficiently insulted to refuse to take it. He had pleasure in seconding the vote of thanks. This was carried cordially, and duly acknowledged by Mr Jarrett, the meeting concluding with the National Anthem. A pumber of ladies signed the covenant referred to by Mr Jarrett, and the one intended for use by men may be signed at the Constitutional Club.
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IVIGOROUS OPPOSITION.
) Continued from Page 5. .=- land in the valley suitable for a sana- torium and places which would be isolated from the public, and which would not inflict asy injury on a landowner like himself. Cross-examined by Mr Artemus Jones, witness said that part of his objection to the sanatorium was due to the fact that it would mean a great depreciation in the value of his property. Mr Artemus Jones As far as the danger of infection went, the danger would be as great to a humble cottager as him- self ?—Witness Quite so. Do you know that most of the people within half a mile of the site are in favour of having the Sanatorium at Plas Llan- gwyfan ?-No. You quite agree with the work the Association has in hand ?- Yes. You also agree that the site must be somewhere ?—Absolutely. And therefore there must come a time when private interests come into conflict with the interests of the public ?-It is a question of degree. And it is only right that private interest should be subordinate to public interest ? -Quite, providing other things are equal, I Asked whether the Association should not be guided by their experts, Mr Behrens said If you follow yonr experts always you will find yourself in a nice mess very often (laughter). Continuing Mr Behrens admitted that the beat site should be selected, but at the same time every phase of the question should be taken into consideration. Mr Artemus Jones You threaten to take proceedings to get an injunction ? Mr. Behrens There are reasons which I tnink the Commissioner knows very well. I want to fiad out what sort of impartiality will be shewn. I am not saying that we shall not have a fair hearing, but I want to guard myself. The Commissioner said the question was as to a grant in aid of the sanatorium out of public funds to the proposed institute, and that point was an entirely open one, and would be decided as the result of the evidence brought forward. In further cross-examination, witness said he had no grievance against the Association which had inspected the alter- native sites he had suggested. It was true that he had engaged Dr Calvert to report on the sites, but he did not know that Dr Calvert had said at a meeting at Llanbedr that none of the alternative sites suggested came up fully to the site at Llangwyfan. Mr Artemus Jones: You agree that it is the duty of the Association to select the besuite ?—Yes other things being equal. Re-examined by Mr Atkinson, witness said that the Pentre site had an ideal south aspect and the land was most suit- able for graduated labour. The site at Llanbedr was objected to because Dr Calvert had a private sanatorium at Llan- bedr Park. Col Cornwallis West said that he was one of the originators of the Memorial Association. His objection to Plas Llan- gwyfan was that this site would inflict a great injustice on Mr Behrens. As a landowner he appreciated the depreciation of Mr Bahrens' property if this sanatorium was erected. He could assure them that there would be no objection to the patients using the common land adjoining the two alternative sites suggested at Pentre and Fron Bella. He considered that a sana- torium should be isolated and not close to a village, and he thought that it was extremely dangerous to have public foot- pmhs on land adjoining the sanatorium. Cross-examined, witness said he quite approved of the objects of the Association, and, in fact, when he was on the County Council they said I had sanatoria on the > brain (laughter). And you will agree with me that the As- sociation has to select the best site ?—Yes, providing that it does no harm to the private individual. But assuming that there is a conflict of public and private interests which should prevail ?—In the case where injury would be done, I should say the private. Re-examined, witness said he con- sidered the erection of a sanatorium at Llangwyfan would inflict quite an un- necessary injury on Mr Behrens. A HUGE TUBERCULOSIS COLONY." Dr Nathan Raw, of Liverpool, who has charge of a sanatorium at Heawell, was of opinion that it was most essential that the patients should not come into contact with the public, or where the public had access. He considered that a sanatorium should be isolated as far as possible, and it was dangerous to have a place like Plas Llangwyfan, where tbeie were public footpaths, and it would be difficult of super- vision. There was not much to choose between any of the sites mentiuned. The objection he had to Plas Llangwyfan as a site for a sanatorium because it was swept by the east wind and had public footpaths crossing it. Of course it was an ideal site in the summer but bad in the winter seasons. He considered the Pentre site quite equal to Plas Llangwyfan and was moreover protected from the east wind. However, he thought Fron Bella was the the best site of the three, because it was away from the main road, and there was plenty of common land behind, which would be suitable for graduated labour. There was also a good natural water supply. A point strongly in favour of the Pentre sita was that there were no footpaths about it, and it was more isolated than the others. Tuberculosis was an infectious disease, and the fact that there were public footpaths across the site at Plas Llangwyfan, he thought, was a serious objection to that site. Mr Artemus Jones: Assuming that patients were kept within bounds there would be no danger to the public ?—From my experience it would be practically impossible to keep patients within bounds. Do you seriously suggest that a sana- torium—speaking gonerslly-would be a danger to the publio ?-No; not where properly conducted. You have no reason to say that this sanatorium will not be properly con- ducted ?—No; but my experience is that it is impossible to supervise a Sanatorium where there are a large number of patients. This is going to be a huge tuberculosis colony in a short time. Re-examined, witness said that the three sites under consideration were so close to one another that there could ba but little, if any, difference between them -"s as regards sunshine and rainfall. A sans* ] feoilum, in his opinion, should be isolated I and capable of perfect control, and, if 16 had public footpaths across it, that was quite impossible. MORE ISOLATED SITE NEEDED. Dr Renahaw, of Manchester, said he had had eontiderable experience in the trsat- ment of consumptives, and ooasidered that I the more isolated the site was the better for all concerned. Pablio footpaths de- tracted very much from she value oi a site, and for that reason the Pias Llangwyfan site woald be difficult of control. The Pentre site was a very good one, but he co- nsidersd Frcn Bella the best of iha three. It bad a southerly aspect and was sheltered from the east wind. I PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE. jMr R E Birch was.tee next wifeless. Asked by Mr Atkinson what would be the affect on the market value of Mr Bahiena' 1 property if a huge sanatorium were put on its boundary, witness replied, In my opinion all the money he tpent in tryning a farmhouse lato a gentleman's residence 1 wonld be absolutely wasted." "I You think the selling value would be wasted ?—I thick so. Cross-examined Witnass said he was an agent o! an estate near the sanatorium, which the South Manchester Gaardians had pat up at Abergele, and although he had land for sale in the locality, he had not been able to sell one acre since the sanatorium was established. ANOTHER; PROPERTY DESTROYED. Mr Francis (of Messrs Parry Jones, Ffanels, 'and Davies, Denbigh), said his Arm were solicitors .for Miss Mainwaring, owner of the Old Rectory at Llangwyfan, now called the White House, and which was on the boundary of the Plas Llan- gwyfan site. He,had been inatracted by Miss Main waring to object to the scheme on the ground that it would destroy the value of her property. Mr Atkinson Do you agree th&t its value will be destroyed ? Witness We have pat it up for lale. and the result seems to be that the value fcai been destroyed. No bid, I am told ? i, Witness You do not want me to cry stinking fish, do you ? (laughter). WITNESS AFRAID OF THE DISEASE, David Jones, farmer, Rhiwbebyll, said his water supply came down through Pias Llangwyfan field, and he did not like the idea of having a septic tank belonging to the proposed sanatorium jast above the stream. Mr Atkinson: Do you objeot to this Isanatorium coining here ? I Witness Yes, I am afraid of oatohing the disease (laughter). > Continuing, witness said that he had been taking in visitors, but would have no I chance of doing so if the sanatorium were put op. I He took round a petition and found a strong body of opinion against the scheme. Mr Artemus Jones Was the heading of theipetition in English ?—Yea. Was it written by Mr Behrens ?—No. Then who wrote it P-I oannot tell you (laughter), Mr Atkinson Woald yon like to use footpaths when consumptives are about f- No. I am afraid, air (laughter). Evidence was given by Mr David OweD, Worn, and Mr William Williams, Bangciau, to the effect that they were in the habito f using footpaths through Plas Llangwyfan farm, and that they objected to the use 01 sueh paths by consumptives. Visitors had told them that they woald not come to the neighbourhood when the sanatorium was put up, Mr Artemus Jones The question is the suitability of the site and not the imaginary fears of these people. OBJECTIONS FROM LLANBEDR. Capt Jenkins said that he appeared on behalf of the parish of Llanbedr and bimaslf to object to the Sanatorium being erected at From Bella for the reasons that it was in close proximity to other houses, there was a private sanatorium already in the parish, and it was a favourite resort of visitors in the summer time. The proposed site was also close to the gathering grounds of the Llandyrnog and Llangynhafal water supplier, and the reservoir was within two or three hundred yards of the place. The site was alio situated in the most populous part of the parish. The population of the pariah was 334, and out of this number 285 had signed a petition against lb. They did not object so mach to a small private sana- torium where there were only between 20 and 30 patients. At the sane time they considered that one sanatorium was quite enough in the parish. A COMMON SENSE VIEW. Mr Rigby, of Pentremawr, said he also objected to the sanatorium. He was not oalled by Mr Behrens, and only came forward because he could not let the op- portunity pass without protesting against anything which might affect the Vale of Clwyd for all time. The Vale was one of the beauty spots of Wales, and was visited every year by a large number of people for health, and on account of Its beautiful scenery. These people mostly stayed in farm-bouses, and left a considerable por- tion of their wealth behind them. This question was not only one of public health, but one of sentiment as well. He himself was not frightened of meeting consumptive patients on the paths, but others were, and if the sanatorium were pat up, visitors would cease coming to the local farm houses. He contended it was not for the Commissioner to say that P;as Llan- gwyfan was the sites and the only one. There were in North Wales plenty of others, and these could be used without doing injury to anybody. There could be no doubt of the injury to Mr Behrens. He had bought the property and enlarged it at considerable expense with the view of making his home and to end his days there in comfort. He (Mr Rlgby) spoke from the point of view of one who loved his country, and a huge sanatorium would be an eyesore to himself and hundreds of people for all time. He was not an expert, but had a certain amount of common sense (laughter). Ia his opinion Pias Lltngwyfan was not the best site. It lay at the bottom of the hill, where one day the patients would be per- spiring in the sun, whilst on another they would have to suffer from the keen east wind coming down the glen. He thought the Association should find a site from which the patients could get to the top of the hills with ease, and wander to the bracken without injuring a sonl. They could not do that from Pias Llangwyfan. I Cross-examined: The real ground of his objection was not fear of infection, but tbali the sanatorium would spoil the resi- dential value of the neighbourhood. He was quite sure another suitable site could be easily got. ANOTHER LLANBEDR WITNESS. Mr E Rogers Jones, Llanbedr Farm, sub- I mitted a resolution passed at a public meeting held in Llanbedr against the selection of the suggested alternative site at Fron Bella. The objection was on two grounds—that the site in question was un- suitable for the reason that it would en-, danger the water supply of four parishes, I and also because there was already a, private sanatorium at Llanbedr. A petition I against the selection of the Fron Bella site had been signed by every resident of the parish over 21 years of age with one exception. TELEGRAPHED OBJECTION. ANOTHER LANDOWNER'S 11 At this stage the Commissioner read the following ttlegram from Ms j >r H Madocks, Wern Farm, L'andyrnog :—" Please note my protest against Llangwyfan site fear and dislike proximity, of contagions epitters, bat I dissociate myself entirely from Mr B»hrens' ateaok on past action of I Memorial Committee." I Mr Thomas Hughes, Tanllan, Han" I dyrnog, said he had been in the habit) of I taking visitors daring the past nine yesra* All the parties he had sairf they woald ccate to come when the sanatorium were ? put up. I Mr Atkinson said he hal many more witnesses of the same kind. They all objsoted to the site, but as their evidence was very much thetSame as that already given, he would refrain from calling them. He might say, howaver, that the Rectors of Llangwyfan and Llandyrnog were among those who strongly objected. This closed the case for the objectors. THE CASE FOR THE ASSOCIATION. Mr Artemus Jones, in opening the c-se for the Welsh National Association, said the latter were glad of an opportunity at last of presenting their case to a Com- missioner, and through him to the public outside. He made this observation for the reason that the Association had been subjected to a great deal of criticism in the newspapers. They did not object to critic- ism provided it was based on soond in- formation all to the facts. The Association weloomed this opportunity cf making their ease public for the reason that the evidence to be called would show that the criticism levelled against the Association was un. informed and unfounded, and in selecting the site they only remained true and fai h- tal to the trust placed upon them. They were the only body authorised under the National Insurance Act for providing s&na- torium treatment for consumptives. Some complaints had been made by Mr Behrens in public that this was not an Inquiry conducted by the L?cal Government Board, but so far as this was concerned the explanation was that in England, Scotland, and Ireland the power of distributing grants in aid of sanatoria was vested in the Local Government Board, but under Section 16 of the National Insurance Act that power was transferred to the Welsh Insur- ance Commissioners. In Wales the Ktüi Edward National Memorial Association had been founded before the Insurance Act came into force, and, with a degree of public spirit, which their neighbours over the border were not then prepared to go, Wales provided a sum of aC200,000 in order that the stricken and the efilleted, who were suffering from the terrible seourge of consumption, might receive from the Siate that treatment which they aboald have had years ago (applause), The task of select- ing a site for the sanatorium was by no means an easy one. Some guidance had been afforded to loeal bodies by the report of a Departmental Committee which sat on the subject, and the Association had the advantage of that document. The Asso- ciation procured the services of Dr Marcus Patterson, a man of almost international reputation in dealing with matters of this kind, and one of the first matters entrusted to him was to go on a prospecting tour throughout North Wales in order to find for the Association that site, which, in his judgment, was the best suited, and best calculated to promote the health of the onfortunate consumptives. Dr Patterson learnt from the British Rainfall Association that the lowest rain- fall in North Wales was in the Vale of ClwJd. Fresh air and sunshine were essential; and having discovered that throughont the whole of North Wales the lowest rainfall was in the Vale of Clwyd, he very naturally went there in search of a sanatorium site. In 1912 he inspected Plas Llangwyfan, as well as other possible sites in Bjdfari, Llewesog, and Llanbedr. On this ocoasion the Vale was covered with snow, with the exception of j ist one spot from which the snow had melted away. Mr Atkinson, with profoand ingenuity, suggested that this was aeoounted for having the wind blowing dovn the valley, but unfortunately that did not fit in with the facts, because the wind that day WAS from the north, and not the east. In Dseember, 1912, Dr PAtterson inspected Plas Llangwyfan, and eame to the con- clusion that the site, which he sailed a veritable sun-trap, fulfilled almost to the letter those conditions laid down in the report of the Departmental Committee. First of all therefore the Llangwyfan site was selected by the Expert of the Associa- tion, and it was adopted by the Council of the Association. Proceeding, Counsel said that same oriti- oism had been levelled that morning as to the employment of the tenant for the purpose cf purohaae. Upon that he desired to make this point—that the Association merely followed the oourse invariably followed by public bodies. The moment it became known that a public body was in search of land the price was forced ap to a prohibitive point, and therefore the Associ- ation did not deserve the criticism passed upon them by Mr Babrens. The land was bought in July, 1913, and a few days after- I wards an announeement was made in the newspapers to the fact that Mr D S Davies, Denbigh, as a tribute to the memory of bis father- in-law-the late Mr Thomas Gee- would give to the Association a sum equiva- lent to the purohase price of this land (hear, hear). It was then, and then only, that Mr Behrens appeared on the scene, and it was a significant fact that the first communication offered by him was couched in the same spirit of menace in which his last was couched, namely, a threat of irjanotion. Nobody could blame Mr Behrens for exercising the constitutional right, which every citizen had, of ventilat- ing his grievance in publlo, bat th9 only regret was that in a matter where his private interest came into conflict with the welfare of poor consumptives he could not rise to a higher sense of oivio responsi- J bility, and subordinate his private interest to the commonweal. As soon as Mr Behrens raised an objection, the Associa tion met him in a spirit which he should have recognised in giving evidence that morning. Mr Behrens was met in a friendly way. He was allowed to bring forward alternative sites, and although the work was pressing, yet so anxious were the Association to do justice to Mr Behrens that month after month went by whilst the alternative sites were brought to their notice. Everyone of those sites were considered by Dr Patterson, and the evidence he would call for on this point must carry conviction to the mind of every impartial man who had regard, not merely to personal friendship and selfish con- sideration for his own interest, but to the one issue of what was best for the patients (applause). The Association could not follow any other course except what they did. They were a public body charged with a public duty, and that duty was to consider one supreme thing-the interest of the victims of an awful disease. They were in duty bound to make the best bargain they could in regard to the land, and in the course they took they were only following the course followed by other people. The Association were no strangers to opposition of that kind. The work they were engaged in involved a conflict of interest between the welfare of patients and the interests of some individual or other, So far as the main issue was A conoerned-the suitability of the site—the conduct of Mr Bshrensiwas quite amazing. Although he had written to the public Press to state that be had employed an expert on consumption to report on the alternative sites which he brought forward, it was araaslng that the expert in question bad not been called by Mr Behrens. That espert was Dr Crace-Oalvert, and, atrange j to cay, Dr Calvert himself had stated in a puhiio meeting held on Monday at L'anbedr that the Plali Llgngwyfsn site WS>!J an ideal one, asd much superior to the alternative sites saggested by Mr Bshreas. No one could blame that gentleman for opposing a scheme which he thought would affect him personally bnt whilst he took that attitude he was exposed to this criticism—Shat that was a conflict between his interest and that of consumptives, and that he plsced his own interest before that of the public. Mr Behrens was entitled to apply for an irj auction; he was entitled to what the law coald give him. Bat Oil bshalf of the Association he had to say that in carrying out the great work they bad in hand they were not going to be deterred by any opposition, however influential it might be, or however skilfully eagiueered, neither would they be frightened by the threat of litigation, however severe it might be. They intended to pursue naswervingly the interest of those oommitted to their care, J the poor and stricken consumptives (loud applause). At this stage the proceedings were adjourned.
IVIGOROUS OPPOSITION.
tended that such injury would be done him he was snbjscted to a great deal of abuse Mr Artemua Jones No, no. Mr Atkinson said he said that designedly and deliberately, and that attitude to- wards Mr Behrens had been significantly i lust rated on the previous day,when ev<:n in that room he had been j aered at because he emphasised his objection. When ha (Coun- sel) oa!E9 into the Inquiry the previous day he thosght there would be a voluntary offer on the part of the Association to adopt one of the other sites. Il the Plas Llan- gwyfan scheme was persisted in and went through, it would be a pity, because then what was intended as a monument to King Edward would be a monument to a disgrace- ful piece of trickery as regarded the pur- chase, and an absolutely nnnecessrry act of injattioe to Mr Behrens (applause). Mr Aftemus Jones, in reply, said this had not been an easy inquiry to conduct. A good deal of bitterness had been im. ported on one aide; it was difficult to his learned friend because he had no case, and difficult to him (Mr Jones) because he wished to show the utmost consideration for the feelings of Mr Behrens. Oa that ground he could not help expressing his regret that his learned friend in his speech had introdaced such bitterness Tha O jmtnissioner said ha dil not think any good otj3ot could bo served by follow- ing that up. Mr Artemus Jones replied that he must refer to the matter in fairness to the Asso- ciation, because there was not a ahadow of foundation for the atatement that Mr Bahrens had been subjscted to abuse, and the accusation should not therefore go to tha public uncontradicted (hear, hear). He repudiated with indignation and .mu. ment a suggestion of that kind. The correspondence itself showed that the utmost consideration was given to Mr Bahrens from beginning to end, and pot one fact had been proved to the oontrary. Mr Atkinson based his ca890 Q two facts :—(1) serious depreciation of Mr Bshren's property, and (2) that the site was intersected by footpaths, which would be a source of serious danger to the public. And unless the case were substantiated by facts it would fall to the ground. And what took place ? Oaly one witness was cailel to prove the depreciation of value, and he tried to do that by a hypothetical supposition in reference to Abergele. Mr Behrens' estimate of possible depreaiation came to nothing, and the only independent witness on this point was Mr Birch. He mentioned the oase of Abergele to sub- stantiate his statement, 01 the other hand they had the evidence of the Assist- ant Overseer for that town who said that the fear i which were obseasing Mr Behrens were groundless. There had been no depreciation whatever in Aoergele, Dr Bardswell also gave a concrete instance In regard to the same thing. Having dealt with other points, Mr Artemas Jones expressed a hope that the relolb of the ioqairy woald be to convince Mr Behrens thac his oase rested on mere fear and suspicion, which had no solid fonndation at all. They all knew Sir Herbert Roberts and his mansion. la this case it was people frcm Manchester who planted a sanatorium near his property. Ia the case of Llangwyfan, it was also a Manchester gentleman, having only resided in the place six years, who threw the batrier of his own selfish interest against the interest of poor consumptives. He (Mr Jones) hoped that the inquiry would prove that the criticism leveUed against the Association was utterly un- founded, and would teach Mr Behrens to t ke a better balanced view of the matter. He hopod that in future Mr Bshrens would have the pleasure of looking throagh his window upon a number of poor and sick people epjoying that oi which no man, not even Mr Behrens, had a monopoly-the fresh air and sunshine of their native land (applause). The Commissioner was thanked by Counsel for his oonduot of the Inquiry, and subsequently he paid a visit of inspection to the Llangwyfan and the alternative sites.