The Weekly News and Visitors' Chronicle for Colwyn Bay Colwyn Llandrillo Conway Deganwy and Neighbourhood

Cowlyd Water-Supply Board. At the Conway and Colwyn Bay Joint Water- supply Board's meeting, at Conway, on Friday morning, February 28th, the Chairman (Rev. W. Venables-Williams) presided, and there were also present the Mayor of Conway (Councillor Humphrey Lewis), Alderman Hugh Hughes, Councillors Dr. R. Arthur-Prichard and John Hughes, County-Councillors Hugh Owen and John Roberts, County-Alderman Thomas Parry, and Messrs John Porter, Daniel Phillips, John Davies, and Robert Evans, and the Clerk (Mr T. E. Parry) and the Engineer (Mr T. B. Farring- ton, C.E.), and the Clerk of the Works (Mr Moses Willms). The only ratepayer present who was not a member or official ot of the Board, was the Colwyn Bay and Colwyn Urban District Council's Surveyor (Mr William Jones, A.M.I.C.E.). THE ENGINEER'S REPORT. Mr Farrington read his report, which was as follows "Municipal Offices, Conway, 28th February 1896.-To the Chairman and Members of the Conway and Colwyn Bay Joint Water-Supply Board.—Gentlemen,—I beg to report to you as follows The Contractor is now making satisfactory progress with the Works at the Lake, he is engaged in constructing a coffer-dam in the Lake for the purpose of fixing the two last pipes and standpost. The ground is at present very favour- able for this purpose and I do not anticipate any serious difficulty in completing this portion of the work. The whole of the 24-inch pipe-line is now laid except the two last pipes referred to above.— The Guage Chamber is also completed and the Glenfield Co. are now at work fixing the machin- ery for regulating the compensation water.—The Contractor is now getting on wit h the embankment. I have had trial holes sunk at the place where the byewash is to be constructed, and the ground proves to be favourable for the purpose of the intended works, and I have given the Contractor instructions to proceed with the construction of the dam and overflow, and he is now at work excavating for the foundation of the necessary walls. The whole of the puddle trench on the west side of the stream is complete, and we are now at work on the puddle trench on the east side.—The present position of the works is that with the exception of the 2 last pipes, each six feet in length, and the standpost, the pipe-line is now complete; and the works at the embankment will be proceeded with as rapidly as possible. The whole of the machinery and pipes required for the work are now upon the ground.—In con- junction with Mr Jones, the Surveyor to the Colwyn Bay District Council, I had the 6-inch main between Sarn Mynach and Colwyn Bay cut in a great number of places, and it was in some instances very badly corroded, I produce a piece of the main for your inspection. We had a long length of rods and carefully scraped the pipes as far as we could reach, and though we did not come across anything in the shape of a compact foreign body which we could say caused the obstruction in the delivery of the pipe, still upon flushing out the pipes after scraping, the water was very thick and highly charged with the corroded matter scraped from the pipes, and since we finished the work I believe that the pressure has been satisfactory at Colwyn Bay.—Since we turned on the Cowlyd water on the 12th of December last, the pressure has been constant and unvarying.—I am, Gentlemen, Your obedient servant, T. B. FARRINGTON." Alderman Parry said that he had been at the Lake the previous day, and he quite agreed that the work would be completed in a very few weeks. The Contractor said 3 weeks, but he (Mr Parry) considered that, if it were finished by the end of April, they would be quite satisfied as a Board. [Hear, hear]. They could not go on very fast, because there was no room for them to work, but he thought that more men might be put on. The Engineer said that he had given the Con- tractor instructions to that effect, and he had promised to put as many hien on as he could, as soon as possible. Alderman Parry said that he was glad to see that they were below the bed of the river,—about two yards,—and the river ran through as if through an iron tank, none dripping out in it. He was quite satisfied himself with the embankment. [Hear, hear.]. The Chairman: I am sure the report of the Engineer is quite satisfactory. [Hear, hear.]. Mr John Roberts: Is it very likely the foundations will be very costly? The Engineer No, we shall have to go in the middle deeper than the provisional plans show, but it can't amount to a great deal,—nothing to be alarmed about. Alderman Parry The bed of the pipes down to the guage-chamber, that was sinking very much when I was there last, about two months ago. Have you any reason for that ? The Engineer No that drain, in the deepest part, is 19 feet. But it does not occur to me that the settlement there is more than the usual settlement. Councillor Owen It is the filling up that is settling, is it not ? The Engineer Yes the loose earth settling down. Mr Moses Williams said that the last frost had affected it very much. APPLICATIONS FOR WATER. A number of these had been received, and it was proposed to defer the consideration of them, but, in reply to Alderman Parry, the Engineer said that the Red Lion at Ty'nygroes had been supplied with water without him knowing anything about it. It was done by the contractor, the connexion being made in December, 1894. Nobody could do that now. Alderman Parry said that the Contractor had no right to do it. The Engineer No; but, if we can get paid for the water, —— Councillor John Roberts I propose we cut the connexion till we make an agreement with them. The Engineer suggested that an agreement be entered into with the people who were being supplied with water, for payment. People of the class of the Caer-Rhun people would pay without having the water cut off. Alderman Parry thought that this was a very big matter, and one that must have their fullest consideration [Hear, hear.], what we intend to do for each parish. It was very wrong for any person to cut in and tap the main. If that sort of thing became general, neither Colwyn Bay nor Llysfaen could get enough water. The Chairman Nobody is tapping the main ? The Engineer No. Alderman Parry We must pass some scheme for every parish to have their own reservoir. The Colwyn Bay Surveyor said that he was as anxious to prevent the main being tapped as any- one in Colwyn Bay. The Chairman thought that it was a matter that required a very considerable amount of information to discuss it properly. The Clerk observed that the schedule price for water was 1/6 upon the rateable value. Mr Porter thought that Alderman Parry was quite right. Every parish should have reservoirs, otherwise the pressure would be lessened. The Engineer said that the Board might rely on it that that main would not again be tapped, except by the instructions of the Board. On the motion of Mr Porter, it was decided that the mains shall not in future be tapped without the Board's instructions. Councillor John Roberts asked whether it was a fact that the Board's mains and those of Llandudno were entirely disconnected. The Engineer said that that was so. Councillor J. Roberts Will you satisfy us that no one will be able to connect them without our knowledge ? The Engineer: No, sir; no more than the Llandudno people can be sure that we don't do it without their knowledge. Councillor Roberts Well, I propose that we distinctly disconnect them altogether. The Engineer said that he would try and consider some means whereby the thing could not be interfered-with without both parties knowing about it. Alderman Parry: I wish to understand at whose cost it will be. The Chairman The cost of the contracting parties, I suppose. Ultimately, the Clerk was instructed to write to the parties concerned, with reference to their water-supply. A PROPOSED GOVERNMENT INQUIRY. The Clerk read a letter enclosing a copy of a resolution passed by the Colwyn Bay and Colwyn District Council, to the effect that, in view of the unsatisfactory proceedings of the Cowlyd Water Board and the enormous cost already incurred, the Council urge the Local Government Board to grant an Inquiry into the Water Board's proceedings. The Council further considered that each of its members should be supplied, by the Cowlyd Board, with copies of all documents relating to the Scheme. Councillor Dr. Prichard (briskly) I propose that that letter be laid on the table. The Mayor I beg to second that. The Chairman Any amendment. Councillor John Roberts considered that the Engineer's report should be sent to the Colwyn Bay District Council; and he thought that that would satisfy the whole thing. The Mayor: Oh, they will get it in The Weekly News. [Laughter.]. Councillor John Roberts But not officially. The Mayor: Oh, it will be sufficient. [Laughter]. The Clerk Will you put it on the minutes ? The motion to lay the letter on the table, was then put and carried by a considerable majority. ANOTHER LETTER FROM THE COLWYN BAY DISTRICT COUNCIL. Another letter from the Colwyn Bay District Council was read, requesting the Cowlyd Board to lay a nine-inch main from Sarn Mynach to Eirias Bridge, and a six-inch main from Eirias Bridge to Llysfaen. Councillor Roberts said that he thought it only reasonable to get a main large enough to supply the District. He was sure that the Engineer would tell them that a six-inch main was too small. They had Llysfaen beyond the District, and it was the Joint Board's duty to supply them with a main. It was very urgent that something should be done, and he proposed that what was requested in the letter just read, be done. The Chairman knew very well that Sarn Mynach was a mile beyond the boundary of the Colwyn Bay Council's District. Mr Robert Evans, seconding, hoped that the Board would all agree with the application. It was a very important matter for Llysfaen. The Chairman asked the Engineer what he had to say on the subject. The Engineer said that he thought that it was advisable that the nine-inch and the six-inch mains should be laid, because the present main was not big enough. The Chairman And at the cost of this Board? The Engineer No, sir that is a matter for the Board to decide, not me. [Laughter]. Councillor Dr. Prichard proposed that the Board do not do what was asked in the letter under discussion. They had heard a great deal about Colwyn Bay, and Colwyn Bay controlling the whole scheme. It was not fair to the out- lying Districts that were constituents of that Board, that further expense should be incurred solely on account of Colwyn Bay. The mains re- ferred-to, were part of the Colwyn Bay system, and it was very well known that the great expense to which the Board had been put during the last two years, was simply the fault of Colwyn Bay. Councillor Owen, seconding, thought that it would be unjust for that Board to replace the main from Sarn Mynach. They had mains at Llangwstenin which they at Llangwstenin had laid down at their own expense, and he thought that it would be quite as reasonable to take them in as well. It had been said that Llysfaen demanded water. Well, let them do what was necessary. Mr Robert Evans asked whether the Board was willing to refund the money already paid by Llysfaen. He considered it very unreasonable that Llysfaen should contribute towards the cost of laying the main to Sarn Mynach, and leave it there, about 5 miles from their parish. Mr John Roberts I think the Engineer agreed some time back that this Board should bear the expense of main to boundary of our parish, at any rate. The Engineer: No; what I said was that I should not object, — that I should think it a reasonable thing, for the Board to extend these pipes. I think that it is only fair that the Colwyn Bay District Council should have an opportunity of tapping it on the edge of their District. It is only fourteen hundred yards. Mr Evans What about Llysfaen ? The Engineer That is quite a matter for the Board. Councillor Roberts pointed out that the rateable value of the Colwyn Bay District, had increassd more than that of the Conway Corporation and Rural Llangwstenin as well, and they were now paying 7d. in the 1 towards the cost, and no doubt they would increase and double in the next 15 years. It had been said that everything had been done for Colwyn Bay. Nothing of the kind! Colwyn Bay wanted water. No doubt Colwyn Bay was the backbone of the Scheme. Neither Conway nor Llangwstenin would venture such a big Scheme as that. Here they were, going to oppose the request of Colwyn Bay to take the main to their boundary. Well, he could not think what Llysfaen would do. It was not the business of Colwyn Bay to get water. It was right that they should carry the main on, and he would venture to tell them that Colwyn Bay would pay iod. in the 1/- a few years hence. Alderman Hugh Hughes You might pay it all. Councillor Hugh Owen: You must bear in mind that you get more water. Councillor John Roberts said that, if they got more water, they paid for the whole Scheme. If they did not get water at Colwyn Bay in the height of the season, it was no use to Colwyn Bay at all. If Colwyn Bay dwindled to nothing, how would Conway keep up this Scheme? By stop- ping Colwyn Bay having a larger main to its own boundary at least, they stopped their own in- terest. How could a little six-inch main supply three or four other branch-mains ? They required all the 24 hours' supply in 4 or 5 hours. A twelve-inch main to Colwyn Bay, would not really be too large. It was no use reckoning up what a six-inch main could supply in 24 hours. They did not want the water at night-time. He thought that, if they modified the resolution, and asked that Board to bring a nine-inch main right to the boundary of the Colwyn Bay District, it might be accepted. The Chairman I was going to suggest that this resolution be cut in two. Won't it be better to carry the main up to the boundary of the Colwyn Bay District ? Then the other becomes quite a separate motion. Councillor Dr Prichard We have given you every facility we have helped you to lay the main as it has been, to Sarn Mynach. This is a new thing altogether. Because Colwyn Bay has grown larger, is not our fault. We have also given you facilities for carrying a Bridge over the River. So don't think that Conway is against you, and, as regards Colwyn Bay, it is all for your benefit that the place has enlarged, but also don't forget that Deganwy is growing as well. But I say this, that you have no right to come here, and ask us as a Board to just lay your mains. You ought to have considered that in the first instance. You must remember we have helped you to carry it to from our boundaries to Sarn Mynach. Councillor John Roberts And we helped you from Conway to Cowlyd. At Mr Robert Evans's request, the Clerk read Article 13 of the Provisional Order, and it was to the effect that the purpose for which this Board is formed is to provide a common water-supply for the Joint District Mr Evans then asked the Clerk whether, according to that Article, the Board was not bound to take the water to the District. The Clerk It does not say that. It says to provide a common supply of water for the United District." No doubt, if you don't get a sufficient supply of water, you have a right to complain. The Chairman It is proposed that a nine-inch main be laid from Sarn Mynach. The amend- ment is that such a main be not laid. Those in favour of the amendment ? Alderman Parry: If the amendment will be carried, I will put another amendment on it. The Board then divided, the amendment receiving seven votes, and the motion four. The amendment was therefore carried. Alderman Parry I beg to propose that the mains be carried to the Colwyn Bay boundary as far, about, as Tygwyn, or wherever the bouudary is. I think, gentlemen, ——— The Engineer It is about 1500 yards. Alderman Parry I think it is a very reasonable request, and I hope you won't object for a moment. Councillor Dr Prichard On behalf of Conway, I do object. Alderman Parry I think Conway is in a fight- ing mood to-day. [Laughter.]. Mr John Porter seconded the amendment. Councillor Dr. Prichard I think this is an amendment to the original motion. I beg to propose we don't entertain this amendment. Councillor John Roberts You can vote against it. Alderman Hugh Hughes seconded Dr Prichard, for several reasons. The Order was that the Board should carry water to Sarn Mynach. Mr Robert Evans I deny that. Alderman Hugh Hughes Mr Robert Evans has been on his feet four times already. I wish you to call him to order, Mr. Chairman. Once we take our line of pipes further than Sarn Mynach, we don't know where we shall end, and I should be very strong against extending our mains any further. We (the Corporation of Conway) have laid mains in our Borough, and carried out an extension of this waterworks, at a cost of ^2000, and we propose spending L500 more. But we don't come to Colwyn Bay. to ask them to pay for these mains. I think, if this Board were to pass a resolution allowing Colwyn Bay to extend this 9-inch main, it would be quite as much as is due to them. [Hear, hear]. Councillor J. Roberts (sarcastically) Very graceful! Alderman Hughes Of course it is upon the Board's decision. Alderman Parry I don't quite catch. Alderman Hughes To allow Colwyn Bay. Alderman Parry Where are you going to ask permission ? Alderman Hughes Here. Alderman Parry Where ? Alderman Hughes Here. Alderman Parry: Where? Alderman Parry HERE here, on this Board. Councillor John Roberts I think we can correct Mr Hughes. We are laying miles of mains in Colwyn Bay. The Chairman I think we had better decide whether this Board will lay a 9-inch main from Sarn Mynach to Dolwydd or not. Councillor Roberts Could they supply Deganwy without a Bridge and without a main. Alderman Hughes Yes, sir we could. Councillor Roberts And is it not a fact that the mains is miles from the Conway Corporation ? We can't enter into Llansantffraid without a Provisional Order ourselves. I hope this Board will not go wild against its own interests. Talk about the Conway Corporation A still old town, and will be so for another generation Councillor Dr Prichard (laughing): I hope so I sincerely hope so. Councillor Roberts And to go against a new place, and talking about helping us from Sarn Mynach The Chairman Are these, arguments worth answering, Mr Roberts ? Councillor Roberts I don't know. Anyhow, if we lose this motion, the time has come to go in for a new document, and there we shall lick you. [Laughter]. Alderman Parry I humbly beg to appeal to you The Chairman Never mind the humble. [Laughter]. Alderman Parry I can't go on my knees under the table. [Laughter]. Proceeding, Alderman Parry said that the extension would cost so little that it was not worth dividmg about, and he hoped that the Board would grant it. It was a very reasonable request. The Chairman I think you have put it so prettily they will withdraw their opposition. [Laughter]. Councillor Dr Prichard On condition that they will pay for our mains to Deganwy and Eglwys- rhos. The Chairman We must go to a division. The amendment opposing the laying of the main to the Colwyn Bay boundary, was carried by seven votes to four. Councillor John Roberts (to the Clerk) Please find the Clause as to a reconsideration of the Provisional Order. I give notice to-day that we shall go in for a Provisional Order and amend it. [Laughter]. The Clerk then read a letter from the Llysfaen Parish Council, with a copy of a resolution passed by that body, asking the Board to lay a nine-inch main from Sarn Mynach to Old Colwyn. Alderman Parry proposed that the request of the Llysfaen Parish Conncil be conceded by the Board. Mr Porter It's no use. Alderman Parry Well, never mind I beg to propose that, and I beg to inform this Board that we in future will not pump a drop of water for the Llysfaen District. We can't do it. We have spent hundreds of pounds, this last few years, on pumping. I beg to propose that this be granted. Never mind us losing it; we shall lose many times perhaps. The Chairman It is proposed —— Mr Evans I second it, and beg to correct Mr Hugh Hughes. This Board is to supply the whole District. Councillor John Roberts supported the motion. Councillor Dr Prichard I beg to propose that the matter be not carried out. It is all very well to threaten us. Llysfaen supply is there, and, if you don't supply it, they will come 011 you (the Colwyn Bay District Council) for damages. Alderman Hugh Hughes seconded Dr Prichard. Mr Evans I beg to say The Chairman You can't speak again. Mr Evans Oh, very well, if you rule me out of order. The Chairman I do rule you out of order. Mr Parry has the right to reply but you have not. Alderman Parry It is no use saying any more; it is not a bit of use. The Board divided, the amendment being carried by seven votes to four. Mr Robert Evans I propose the names be put on the minutes. The Chairman Number 6. Councillor Dr Prichard I beg to propose that it be not entertained. The Chairman Stop a bit. you don't know what it is yet. [Laughter]. Number 6 was an account of Z35 10s. from the Colwyn Bay Urban District Council for breaking mains. Councillor Dr Prichard I beg to propose we don't entertain it. This will bring us into a position that Colwyn Bay have got into on their own responsibility. Their Engineer has all along been acting for them upon this main pipe. They complained about the water-supply, and, through the kindness of this Board, our Engineer was asked to assist their Engineer, and therefore it is a matter for Colwyn Bay to pay, and not us. That shows you that our position is a strong one, after your own Engineer did this work of his own accord, and therefore I think it is very hard that you should ask us to do what you do, only for the kindness of this Board to assist your Engineer. Alderman Hugh Hughes seconded Dr Prichard. He would like the Engineer to show the Board the section of pipe referred-to. They had heard that there had been no fault whatever with this six-inch from Sarn Mynach, and that all the difficulty was over at Conway, or between Conway and Cowlvd. And now Mr Roberts had intimated that they agreed that this pipe should be renewed or a larger pipe be put in, and it had been entirely through this pipe being corroded that Colwyn ¡ Bay had been short of water. Councillor Roberts Nothing of the kind. Alderman Hughes I second that we have nothing to do with it. Councillor Roberts moved that the account be paid, and demanded the production of the minute showing that the Engineer had been appointed to do the work. The Chairman (to the Clerk) Is there a minute on our book to the effect that our Engineer be requested to assist the Colwyn Bay Surveyor? The Clerk said that there was no such minute he thought the arrangement was made outside the Board. The Chairman A private arrangement ? Councillor Dr Prichard Yes the Surveyor of this Board was so harassed on every side about this water, that he offered to meet the Surveyor of the Colwyn Bay Council, and find where the fault was. Alderman Parry seconded Mr Roberts's motion. Mr Robert Evans I should like ———— The Chairman Mr Parry is on his legs now. Alderman Parry I think it is only reasonable. I never ask this Board only what is reasonable. [Laughter]. Oh, you may laugh, gentlemen. Councillor Dr Prichard You laughed yourself. Alderman Parry 0, yes I did. Very well. I ask you to show that pipe, and you will find nothing in it but the usual corrosion. It has been there about ten or twelve years. Neither Mr Farrington nor our Surveyor at Colwyn Bay has found anything in the pipes that could be said to obstruct the water, except the usual corrosion, and it is not fair to put this saddle upon us. We had plenty of water when Llandudno was supplying us we had no trouble at all with it. And we had plenty of water now and then from Cowlyd, and, ever since this has been done without finding anything in the pipes, there is plenty of water again from December, and that water could be sent up to Llysfaen without pumping it, and I think it is only reasonable for us to have what we spent. The matter came out this way. Our Engineer asked me if our Surveyor could go through, and inspect the pipes. I quite agreed; if there was something wrong, let us find it. The Engineer That is so. Mr. Evans It is in the Engineer's report. If you will read the Surveyor's report, you will find it. The Engineer said that on the 15th November he reported that he had had several complaints, from the Colwyn Bay Surveyor, of the insufficient supply of water to his District. He (Mr Farring- ton) had repeatedly called attention to the neces- sity of seeing to this six-inch main, and all along contended that it was something in the pipe. That, of course, was proved very conclusively, because, since they had scraped the pipes, the pressure of water at Colwyn Bay had been satis- factory. [Hear, hear]. They had scraped about half-a-mile of piping altogether, and the probability was that, if the pipes were scraped all through, they would get a still better supply of water. Councillor Dr Prichard Were not these pipes in the charge of the Colwyn Bay Surveyor until Mr Farrington offered his services ? After some further discussion, the Board divided, when there were:—For paying the bill, four against, seven majority against, three. The Chairman I may be allowed to express a very great regret on my part that friction has arisen between two independent Authorities and that there has been so much voting on party lines. Councillor John Roberts I suppose the District Council of Llysfaen can serve us with a man- damus ? The Chairman You must go to the lawyers. [Laughter]. Councillor Dr Prichard You have got a notice of motion. Councillor Roberts I think there are other members besides Dr Prichard. Alderman Parry I wish to call your attention —is every one of the seven members who voted against us this morning, a member of this Board? The Clerk: I think so. Alderman Parry: I thought every member had to attend regularly. I see one gentleman here- The Chairman: Name? Mr John Davies: I think he is right to name him. I have had notice of every meeting. The Chairman: Is there a Clause that, if a member absents himself for six months, he vacates his seat ? The Clerk There is no such Clause. Alderman Parry: Well, I think we ought to put a Clause. [Laughter.] I think it is only fair and right that every member should attend, and take his share of the work and trouble of this Board. When there is some particular matters coming before us, the whip can bring certain members here. The Chairman I think you have whipped them enough. [Laughter.] A MYSTERIOUS LETTER. The Chairman said that a letter had been addressed to him as Chairman of the Board, dealing with something that had been said outside the Board. Personally, he thought such letters need not be brought before the Board, but he was entirely in the Board's hands. The Clerk: It is in reference to something said at a public meeting. Alderman Parry said that there could be no harm in reading it. However, it was finally decided not to read it. THE FINANCE COMMITTEE. Alderman Parry, as Chairman of the Finance Committee, read the minutes of that Committee, which were of a routine character, and proposed their adoption by the Board. Councillor Dr Prichard I second Mr Parry this time. [Laughter.] The minutes were then confirmed, and the meeting terminated. The subjoined letter has been handed to us for publication. It was produced but not read, at the Cowlyd Board's meeting on February 28th :— [COPY]. COWLYD WATER WORKS. The Chairman & Members, Gentlemen, I have wanted the General Meeting of the Board to reply to a statement made by Mr Thos. Parry at a meeting of Ratepayers as reported in the C. & D. Herald of the 3rd of J a nuary, 1S96. First, Mr P. says I had £ 1000 to buy horses and carts. The _I-iooo was advanced after I had made an incline costing Liioo, delivered 100 Tons I pipes and materials value Z400 total, ^2100. The Ciooo was advanced in consequence of the Board being unable to give me possession of the land, but the jQ1000 was deducted by your Engineer in equal portions from the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Certificates, although the incline was useless for 18 months. Secondly, the Contractor was paid £ 900 for the 18 months stoppage; this I totally deny. Thirdly, the Contractor received L3000 for 6 Furlongs if so part of this sum must have been due at an earlier date. I wish to add whether intended or not the erroneous statements made by Mr P. and two others, has done me great injury as a Contractor. Yours truly, THOS. BUGBIRD.