Rhyl Journal

RHYL URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL. MONTHLY MEETING. I THE FORYD FORESHORE -AN UNAUTHORISED CONSERVATORY FOR THE PROMENADE PLANTS. ROADMEN AND PRIVATE WORK —THE SANI- TARY INSPECTORSHIP PLAYING FAST AND LOOSE WITH THE SURVEYOR —ASSESSMENT OF THE WATER UNDERTAKING SUCCESSFUL APPEAL.—ELECTRIC LICHTINC MORE TROUBLE ANTICIPATED —THE BAND QUESTION—NORTH WALES RAILWAY SERVICE. MONDAT.—Present Mr H A Tilby (chair- man). Dr W T Girdlestone (vice-chairman), Messrs A L Clews, J H Ellis, J Frimston, F J Gamlin, D Griffiths, J Hughes, A Lewis Jones, J W Jones, T D Jones, A Maltby, S Perks, J Williams, W Winterbottom, A Rowlands (clerk), A A Goodall (surveyor), L G Hall (water and gas engineer), and E H Wright (electrical engineer). Plans. It was reported that plans had been disposed of by the Road Committee as follows :—Nine- inch sewer in West Kinmel Street, by Mr Peter Evans, approved greenhouse in Butterton Road, by Mr David Owen, approved new street off King's Avenue, by Mr J T Shepherd, disapproved three houses in King's Avenue, by Mr T Whitley, ppproved two houses in Sandringham Avenue, by Mr Thos Williams, disapproved. The Tennis Court at the Marine Lake. In reference to the above, the Road Com- mittee renewed their previous recommendation that the court be ashed at a cost not exceeding JE35. Mr T D Jones thought it would be a regrettable mistake to ash the court when, in his opinion, a thorougly good job could be made of it at the same price by sodding it. He proposed that the matter again be referred back. Mr Gamlin, in seconding, reminded the Council of what took place on the same subject at the last meeting, and agreed with Mr T D Jones that to sod the court would make it an eyesore. Mr Ellis said the Road Committee had thoroughly re-considered the matter, and with the Surveyor they had gone thoroughly into the question of costs, both as to ashing and turfing. The Surveyor's estimate for turfing was £60, including an allowance for the deposit of a considerable amount of soil in the place of the present virgin sand. But if Mr T D Jones would guarantee that the amount for turting would not exceed £35, the Committee would be only too glad to fall in with his views. They wanted the work carried out thoroughly and economically, for they felt there was a great want of a court of this kind in the town. Up to the present, however, they had had no help from Mr T D Jones in the matter, although his name was mentioned in connection with the subject at the last Council meeting. Mr T D Jones replied that he had never been summoned to any meeting of the Road Committee. But he could say this much —that the Council would be perfectly safe in allotting JE35 for turfing the court and making a thoroughly good job of it at that figure. Who looks after the bowling green1" asked Mr Jones MrEllis The Town Surveyor. The Surveyor The Bowling Club pay for it being kept in order, and I arrange for the work to be done. Mr T D Jones thought this raised a very important point, and being evidently anxious to "have it out" with the Surveyor, he asked whether it was not a fact that men in the Council's employ were engaged on this work. The Surveyor That is so, but the Bowling Club pay their wages for the time they are there, and the time lost to the Council is deducted. Mr T D Jones thought it a most unsatisfac- tory method, and would have proceeded further but for the interference of The Chairman, who said opportunity might be given later on for discussing the point. At the same time he hoped the Chairman of the Road Committee would make a note of the objection. The Vice-Chairman having spoken of his experience of the satisfactory working of ashed courts, Mr Jones' amendment was carried. An Unauthorised Greenhouse The Surveyor Called to Account Arising out of the question of tenders for sheds in the Town Yard( which the RoadCommittee have resolved shall be built of brick or stone, and not iron), Mr Winterbottom asked whether the Committee had sanctioned the erection of a greenhouse in the gasworks yard. Mr Ellis That matter does not come under this heading (laughter). Mr Frimston But a greenhouse has been put up there without the consent of the Council, and I think it is important that the matter should be investigated. Mr Ellis at the suggestion of the Chairman rose to explain. lie said it was true a green- house was being erected in the gasworks yard, and for this reason. As was well known they werejvery desirous as a Council of beautifying the Promenade, where they had flower plats that were admired and eulogised by townspeople as well as visitors. At this time of the year the geraniums which had been out of doors during the summer needed protection and warmth. Same time ago the Surveyor notified to him the want of a structure for the protection of the plants. He said he had a quantity of scrap iron at the gasworks and suggested that it should be sold and the proceeds devoted to the construction of a greenhouse, the cost of which he estimated at £10. He (Mr Ellis) replied that it was a very desirable thing, and if it would not disturb the estimates for the year he was willing for the suggestion to be carried out. Accordingly when a sub-committee proceeded to inspect the site of the proposed new shed in the Town Yard, the Gas Committee having given them notice to quit their premises—(laughter)—they were asked at the same time by the Surveyor to visit the place where it was proposed to erect the greenhouse. They did [so, and much to their surprise, and to his, too, they saw the foundations were laid and that the building had been raised to the proposed height. This, then, was the cause of all the consternation, and the fact that blue bricks had been used for the foundations of the building instead of common bricks seemed to add fuel to the fire, so that altogether the Sur- veyor was quite put on his mettle (laughter). A further explanation as to the selection of the site was that for the purpose of heating the greenhouse it was proposed to make use of the waste steam from the works besides which it was urged that the erection of a greenhouse in the yard would prevent a lot of pilfering of plants during the winter. This explanation was accepted by the sub-committee as very reasonable. The Surveyor also stated that the total cost of the building would be about .£15 instead of £10 as he first estimated. The whole bone of contention now appeared to be this difference of £5. He was sure, however, no one would deny that such a building was required, for they had thousands of geranium plants that needed protection, if they were in years to come to make use of the great space available for displaying them. These being the facts of the case, [he believed the Road Committee felt, although the action of the Surveyor might be termed ''ultra vires/' that the matter might now be looked over. Of course there was no doubt as to the opinion of the Committee that the Surveyor ought not to have incurred any such expenditure without their authority. Mr Perks: properly Has the scrap iron? Mr Ellis The Road Committee's. Mr Perks Then did the Road Committee sanction the sale of it i Mr Ellis The Surveyor had my permission to do so (laughter). Mr J W Jones thought a very important principle was here at stake. He felt they were overlooking these irregularities far too fre- quently, and that was why their estimates got i out of gear year after year. He agreed that as long as they went in for landscape gardening it I was necessary to have some place for storing the plants when out of season, but if they continued to make outlays after this fashion he was afraid they would find themselves in a very serious position at the end of next March. Mr Frimston I am afraid our officials are getting into the habit of taking upon themselves to spend money and to do work without con- sulting the various committees, and I certainly take this opportunity of protesting against any such action. Continuing, he said he was glad the Chairman had allowed the matter to be brought forward, for it was high time they let their officials know they must not exceed their duties. He considered it the height of extravagance to build the greenhouse walls with bricks costing 45s a thousand, when bricks quite suitable could have been obtained at 25s a thousand. But seeing a pile of good bricks handy, the Surveyor no doubt thought they would do very nicely for the purpose. Mr Perks We have heard the Chairman of the Road Committee's pathetic appeal in which he seems to promise that such a thing shall not happen again, but it strikes me that a promise of that nature should come from the official concerned. Mr Ellis I consider myself an official. Mr Perks You are too much of an official (laughter). As the Surveyor remained silent upon the subject, the next business was proceeded with. More about the Foryd Foreshore Negotiations: Office of Woods again Taken to Task. The Road Committee reported having had under consideration the correspondence between the Clerk and the Office of Woods, &c., relating to the purchase price and rent of foreshore proposed to be acquired or rented by the Council, and according to which the Office were prepared to state the price and rent if the Council would pay the cost of valuation. The Committee recommended the approval of the Clerk's letters and that he be authorised to agree to pay a sum not exceeding £5 for a valua- tion. Mr Perks said he did not concur with this recommendation, although he was a member of the Committee. It was an entirely unusual course of procedure, and one which no private individual negotiating for the acquisition of any property would think of pursuing. He proposed that they make a further appeal to the Office of Woods. This seemed to be the only Govern- ment department that cared anything about economy, while amongst other departments there had been considerable activity respecting the purchase of three-legged horses (laughter). Mr Hughes seconded. Mr Ellis assured the Council that the Clerk had exercised to the utmost his mild and suave powers in the hope of inducing the Office of Woods to forego the price of the valuation. He had approached them in the most courteous manner, but their latest reply was to the effect that not only would they not agree to accept JE5 as the cost of the valuation, but they would require 10 guineas. Chorus of Voices Ten guinea3 Mr Ellis Yes. I should like the Clerk to read the correspondence. This the Clerk did, with the result that Mr Ellis' statement was fully borne out, the exact words in the letter from the Office being, The cost of the proposed valuation would probably not exceed 10 guineas." To this the Clerk had replied that a person who proposed to purchase land never dreamed of paying the vendor for his own valuation, and a further letter had been received from the Office to the effect that the proposal that the Council should pay the cost of the valuation was in accordance with the usual practice of that department. Mr Perks proposed that the Council reply protesting against any such charge, pointing out that although it might be the usual custom in that department it was certainly an unusual custom anywhere else. In his opinion the Council were certainly entitled to have the price of the property stated as well as the opportunity of purchasing it without being put to this expense at all. Mr Clews seconded. Mr Ellis sincerely hoped that, though they considered R5 alone exorbitant for valuation, the Council did not intend to throw up the sponge. According to the correspondence before them another candidate for the purchase of the foreshore was in the field-a gentleman who had no sympathy with the prosperity of Rhyl. It behoved the Council, therefore, to do its utmost to prevent the foreshore going into alien hands. It would be the worst thing the Council ever did to allow an outsider to have control and command of the foreshore at the estuary of the river, that being the place where it was most convenient for steamers calling at Rhyl to land their passengers. He proposed that the Crown valuer be paid the 10 guineas asked for. He agreed with Mr Perks that it was most unusual to ask the prospective purchaser to pay for the vendor's valuation of the land, but it would not do for them to relinquish their hold on this matter. Replying to Mr Frimston, Mr Ellis went on to state that according to the letter it was intimated that if after the valuation the Council were not prepared to take the whole of the foreshore, Mr Horton, of Rhos-on-Sea the outside party referred to-was prepared to take the remainder, in which case the cost of the valuation of the whole of the property would be divided between the two parties. While there was still an opportunity he thought the Council ought to embrace it, and if the valuation turned out to be exorbitant they might allow Mr Horton to acquire the property if he thought fit. Evidently this man was pre- pared to give the Office all they asked for the foreshore. Mr Perks What if we lost the 10 guineas ? Mr Ellis I think it will be 10 guineas well spent. Mr Williams, in seconding Mr Ellis' motion, agreed that it was highly desirable that the Council should have control of the foreshore at Foryd, especially as that was the place steamers-which they wanted to see calling at Rhyl as much as at any other seaside town- could most conveniently put up at so far as the Rhyl shore was concerned. Mr Perks said he still kept his motion of protest before the meeting. Mr Clews pointed out that if Mr Perks' pro posals were carried they could still await the reply of the Office of Woods before committing themselves one way or the other. They had had a long-standing grievance with the Office of Woods, it was true. Land-grabbers they might call them, for they had the worst repu- tation of any of the Government departments and he thought it would be as well for the Council to let them see that they were not going to blindly conclude negotiations with them. Whatever their answer might be, the negotiations would not at any rate be broken off by their refusal to accept the Council's view as to the cost of valuation. That was one of the reasons why he heartily supported Mr Perks' amendment, and he felt that if it were passed unanimously it would carry more weight with it. Mr Ellis] then withdrew his motion, and those proposed by Mr Perks were unanimously agreed to. The Employment of Council Men on Private Work. An item in the Road Committee's report referring to the Marine Lake gave Mr Frimston another opportunity of alluding again to the employment of Council men on private work. He protested against their having anything to do with clubs or anything else. He proposed that from that day onward the Surveyor be instructed not to allow the men to do outside work during the hours they were expected to be working for the Council. If the Bowling Club wanted a man let them tind one from elsewhere, for he was sure it was not to their advantage as a Council to allow their men to run about at anybody's bidding. The Vice-Chairman seconded. Mr Clews said it was to the interest of the i no, Council and the town at large that the bowling green should be kept in proper order, and he felt it was more likely to be well kept if tended by their own men. If such an arrangement I were sanctioned, the time the men were working on the bowling green could be fully charged I against the club, so that there would be no loss to the Council. Mr T D Jones agreed that it was to the advantage of the town to have a green of this kind, but he did not see the advantage of Mr Clews' proposal, or rather suggestion, as to the maintenance of the green. To allow the men to have anything to do with private affairs during Council hours afforded them a loophole to run about anywhere. Mr Goodall must remember that he was town surveyor, as well as secretary to the Bowling Club. With these remarks Mr Frimston's motion was declared carried. The Duties of the New Sanitary Inspector and the Surveyor. The Sanitary Committee reported having directed the Clerk to advertise in certain papers for a Sanitary Inspector the applica- tions to be sent in on or before Nov 19, the Committee to meet on the 24th to report on the applications, and a special meeting of the Council to be called to mak3 the appointment on Dec 1. Candidates must have had at least throe years' practical experience of the duties in a town of not less than 10,000 population. At a joint meeting of the Road and Sanitary Committees the re-arrangement of the duties as between the offices of the Surveyor and Sanitary Inspector was discussed, and it was resolved (1) That the duties of the Inspector shall be as prescribed now or hereafter by the Local Government Board, (2) that the flushing of the sewers and street gullies shall be included in his duties, (3) that the charge of the pumping station (hitherto in the hands of the Inspector) shall be transferred to the Surveyor, (4) that the Inspector be appointed under the general order of the Local Government Board at a salary of R120 a year (one-half to be paid by the County Council), (5) that the Inspector shall possess a certificate of competency from the Sanitary Institute, (6) that a road foreman be advertised for at wages of 35s per week. I Mr Gamlin took exception to the third clause of the Joint Committee's report, re- marking that he was not present at the meeting, 'out some very good reasons must have been adduced to make them decide upon an innovation like this. For many years the pumping station had been in charge of the Sanitary Inspector, and to his mind it was especially a matter connected with the sanitary department. Bearing in mind the multifarious duties of the Surveyor, he would have thought it better to again delegate this matter to the Sanitary Inspector. For the purpose of debate he proposed that that clause be struck out. The Vice-Chairman seconded. Mr Ellis referred the Council to the second clause in justification of the Committee'sjaction regarding the third clause. Under the proposed arrangement they would save overlapping, and he might also state that the Committee were practically unanimous on these points. The Vice-Chairman did not see why the Road Committee or the Suveryor, who already had more to do than they could cope with, should wish to increase their duties. The chargej of the pumping station was essentially a sanitary matter, and he strenuously opposed the altera- tion, especially as the pumping slation had been so well conducted in the past. Mr J W Jones supported the amendment, remarking that if there was one matter more than another in which they had taken a pride it was in regard to the pumping station department. He saw no adequate reason for making a change. The Sanitary Inspector had never struck him as being an overworked official, and he thought he was far more com- petent to take charge of the pumping station than .vas the Surveyor, who was notoriously overworked. If they piled on the duties of the Surveryor in this fashion they would be having an application for an assistant. Mr Maltby You have done that already. Mr Clews supported the Committee, arguing that it was simply a give-and-take arrange- ment. The voting at first was even, Ibut when the names were called for the amendment was declared carried. Mr Gamlin, having so far been successful, proposed the elimination of clause six. He understood that it was in consequence of the extra duties devolving upon the Surveyor by undertaking the charge of the pumping station that it would be necessary that his other duties should be somewhat relieved by the appointment of a road foreman at a salary of £ 91 per annum, which amount had not been included in the estimates for the current year. But now that clause three had been struck out, he thought the sixth could also be dispensed with. He was strongly opposed to it at present, for the reason that there were in his opinion quite enough officials, also on account of their financial position. Mr Griffiths seconded the amendment. Mr Ellis thought the Council would agree with him that the great grievance and com- plaint was that their staff had not been able to look after things adequately. There were so many duties to attend to that proper supervision was lacking. It was agreed that the, Surveyor was overworked, therefore the Council ought to support the Committee in this matter, so that the town work might be done thoroughly and satisfactorily. He had no fault to find with the present foreman, except that his health had not been good of late, and the Committee rightly recommended that his services should be retained, but that his wages be 24s a week as compared with 21s a week for the ordinary workmen. That would be reducing the present foreman's wages, but he understood from the Surveyor that the man was quite agreeable to the proposal. He felt sure that if this recom- mendation were carried the Council would have no cause to regiet it. For a certainty one man would be dispensed with under such an arrange- ment, and in all probability under the agile supervision of the new road forrman—(laugh- ter)—a second man would also go, while they would also make sure of more labour and greater efficiency. He hoped the Council would agree to the Committee's proposal without regard to creed, politics, or nationality (laugh- ter). Mr Williams supported Mr Gamlin's view, and asked what was the good of keeping a high-class foreman when they were short both of labour and m&terial. Mr Clews You mean to say there is nothing to supervise ? Mr Williams I do (laughter). Mr Ellis, replying to Mr J W Jones, who wanted to know whether the proposed foreman was to be a velvet-gloved gentleman, took it that he would be a working foreman. Mr J W Jones thought the more satisfactory method would e to get a competent man to do the draughtsmanship in the Surveyor's office, thus liberating the Surveyor to go about and properly supervise everything. He protested against the appointment of a new roadman as an absolute frasto of money. The Vice-Chairman said his only objection was that no provision was made for such an appointment in the year's estimates. Mr Ellis: We shall save by the arrange- ment. One man for certain will be knocked off, representing XI Is a week. The Vice-Chairman I would support Mr Ellis if I thought the estimates would not be exceeded. I have no complaint to make against our present foreman, but the town is growing larger, and it must consequently be admitted that the work is increasing, necessitating greater supervision. Mr Maltby, as a member of both Com- mittees, said he was satisfied that they had arrived at the right conclusion. In fact, it pleased him down to the very ground to see how they all agreed on this matter (laughter). At first the amendment was declared lost by seven votes to five, but Mr J W Jones chal- lenged the accuracy of the voting. The names were then called over, and it was found that there were six aside. The Chairman gave his casting vote in favour of the Committee. Mr Gamlin, as a parting shot, said he would like the Council's sanction to instruct Mr Goodall to act as substitute for Mr Hughes, the late sanitary inspector, during the interregnum. Mr Ellis Is he not overworked already ? ) Mr Gamlin Mr Goodall seems to me to be impervious to overwork (laughter). He came to me to-day, and said he was willing to do this. But perhaps the proposed new road foreman could take the matter in hand. It would give him something to do by way of a start. Mr Williams supported Mr Gamlin's request. Mr Ellis So do 1. At the same time I hope you will deal kindly with the Surveyor. It appears to me the Council are playing fast and loose with him just now. One time he is doing nothing, and another time he is over- worked (laughter). The suggestion was agreed to. Gas Committee's Report Increased Consumption. The report of the above Committee referred bo the turning off of the gas supply for the town last Thursday, for the purpose of connec- ting new plant at the works. With regard to the Town Yard it had been decided to give the Road and Sanitary Committees notice to quit on March 31st next the yard and outbuildings which they at present rent from the Gas Committee, there not being sufficient storage accommodation for the gas department at present. The application of Mr J T Linnell, assistant in the Gas Engineer's office, for an increase of salary from 1:1 to Ri 5s per week was deferred for a month. The Committee had discussed the question of simple hire cf gas fires, and the manager had been instructed to look into the matter, also to see if better terms for hire purchase could not be given to cus- tomers. Mr Shepherd's application for a main in a new street off King's Avenue was granted, subject to the usual guarantee being entered into. The Engineer's monthly report showed that 4,763,500 cubic feet of gas were delivered during October, the increase on the corresponding month of last year being 483,700 cubic feet, or 11-3 per cent. The acceptance of Mr Cuddy's tender for scrap iron, at 35s. per ton for heavy iron and 15s. per ton for light pipe, was recommended and agreed to, after a little inquisitiveness on the part of Mr J W Jones, who wanted to know whether this was the scrap iron spoken of in the green- house affair. Mr Ellis: Oh, let that subject drop (laughter) Water Committee's Report i The Reservoir Scneme: Assessment of the Water Undertaking. The Water Committee reported having been informed that so far no agreement had been arrived at with the several owners in connec- tion with the reservoir scheme. The majority of the owners had chosen Col. Hughes, Den- bigh, as their arbitrator, and Mr W Dew, Bangor, had been appointed arbitrator for Mr Wynne, Garthewin. The arbitrators had appointed Mr Wainwright, of Liverpool, to act as umpire. The Committee upon learning this resolved after discussion (1) to offer to the parties an increase of 20 per cent on the valuation of Major Birch (without prejudice) with the view of a friendly settlement, (2) to employ counsel (on report of a solicitor) to act for the Council before the arbitrators-failing settlement by agreement, and (3) to pay Major Birch for his services for the business to the finish. These terms were confirmed by Major Birch. In connection with the reservoir undertaking it was reported that the wages estimated for the month of Novermber, amounting to F.150, had been passed. The question of the appoint- ment of resident engineer has been deferred, and Mr C H Jones, Princes Street, was recommended for the post of time and store keeper at 24s. per week. It was also recom- mended that the men be insured and that the Clerk and Engineer make the best terms they can in the matter, the insurance of the boiler being also left to the Engineer. With regard to the purchase of land it was recommended that Mr W C Bell, surveryor, and Mr LI Jones, reservoir caretaker, be called to give evidence at the arbitration. The Engineer had been instructed to write to Mr Baldwin Latham and others as to terms for appearing at the arbitration and giving evidence as to adapta- bility, &c. The offer of Mrs M Roberts (through Messrs Geld Edwards and Co.) to let two fields to the Council for two years at a rent of JE3 per acre per annum was recommended for acceptance. As to right of access through Mrs Roberts' land, instructions had been given to Mr J Pierce-Lewis to make enquiries. Mr Gamlin wanted to know whether Mr Hall had carried out the instructions with regard to the obtaining of expert evidence at the arbitra- tion and if so, to whom had he written. The Engineer I have written to Mr Baldwin Latham and to Mr Hill, late consulting engineer for Manchester Waterworks. Mr Gamlin Let us have three others besides Mr Baldwin Latham. I want a bit of com- petition in this matter. Surely there are experts whose opinion we can rely upon as much as Mr Baldwin Latham's. No doubt he is a competent expert in affairs of this kind, at the same time I don't see why we should be fast-bound to him tor every scheme. This suggestion was accepted, and the report adopted. The recommendation of the Committee that 4-inch mains be laid in Sandringham Avenue, over Gladstone Bridge, in King's Avenue, and in Alexandra Road, Abergele, subject to the usual guarantees being entered into, was agreed to; also the recommendation that the water trough at St Asaph be supplied for an annual charge of 10s. With reference to the "claim by Mr A 0 Evans' (Denbigh) client, Mr Williams, against the Council for £37 10s. plus 12 guineas for the valuer and his own expenses, it was decided to offer £35 in full discharge (without prejudice). Failing the acceptance of this offer the original offer will be adhered to. Thd Chairman of the Council reported to the Water Committee the result of the appeal against the assessment of the water under- taking, namely, that the Assessment Commit- tee had reduced the valuation from £2,150 to £ 1,500. The Committee passed a very cordial vote of thanks to the Chairman for the able manner in which he had stated the case for the Council before the Assessment Com- mittee. The Committee are of opinion that the assessment is still too high, and that a further appeal should be made. With regard to Brynffynnon water supply, Mr W Conwy Bell having complained of insufficiency, all information and correspondence bearing on the subject is to be considered at the next meeting of the Committee. The Engineer's report showed that during October 12,478,000 gallons of water were delivered throughout the district, this being equal to 25'5 gallons per head per day for all purposes, and the popula- tion supplied being estimated at 15,750. Com- pared with October of 1901, there was an increased supply by 664,000 gallons. The reservoir on October 31st contained 43,200,000 gallons. The School Attendance Committee. reported that six prosecutions had been ordered on the recommendation of the local committee. Mr Gamlin Have those prosecutions taken place ? The Chairman They have. Mr Gamlin And with what result ? The Clerk A fine in each case, I think. Electric Lighting. The Electric Light Committee reported having invited the directors of the Queen's Palace and their Engineer to meet the Com- mittee and Mr Trentham, the Council's con- sulting engineer, to try to arrive at a settle- ment as to what should be done to remedy the cause of complaint in connection with the lighting. It was reported that all the faulty cables on the seafront had been replaced and the resistance boxes re-sealed, Mr Wright, the engineer, certifying that these were now satisfactory and free from leakage. With regard to the town cables it was proposed that thb overhauling of these should be postponed for the present. As the Engineer had no doubt that there would be trouble with them before