The Glamorgan Monmouth and Brecon Gazette and Merthyr Guardian

HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 10. EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER. Mr. C. GRANT moved the order of the day for the second reading of the East India Company's Charter Bill. The order having been read, Mr. BUCKINGHAM rose to oppose the second read- ing of the bill. He could not see any good grounds .for confiding to this body of merchants a power and a terri- torial sway under this charter which would be denied to any other corporation of a similar character in the world. He should oppose this bill, and he hoped the government would postpone it to the next session, particularly as there were so many ether subjects of great importance pressing on the immediate attention of Par- liament. lIe should conclude by proposing a resolution. -The hon. gentleman handed his resolution to the Speaker, but on the question being asked, Who seconds it ?" nobody answered. Mi. Hume having on the instant risen to address the house, Mr. Buckingham pointed to the hon gentleman, supposing he rose to second his re- solution, but Mr. Hume declined doing so, and the reso- lution dropped. ° Mr. HUME said he was of opinion lhat instead of postponing the question for one year, the house ought to go on from day to day, until the whole measure was completed. With this view he should vote for the second reading of the bill. Mr. W. WHITMORE was friendly to the principles of the bill, and would vote for the second reading, for he considered that the changes contemplated by govern- ment would ultimately lead to the benefit of India, and to the improvement of our commercial relati6ns ith that country. He objected, however, to the clause giving an interest of GO years to the holders of land in India and he further objected to the system of taxation under which the people of that country were placed. He confessed that the government of India by a body of private individuals was an anomaly that ought not to be allowed to continue. Air. MACAULAY observed that in coming to the consideration of this great question he was happy to hnd that all parties agreed in the justice and necessity of throwing open the trade with China, and he was glad to find that not one member of the legislature had as yet raised his voice in defence of the monopoly which the East India Company had so long exercised. The hon. gentleman entered at some length into the commercial and political history of India, with a view to show that owing to the complexity of the accounts of the Company inconsequence of the mixture of teiritorial debt wirh debts of another description, namely those incurred in carrying on war with the native tribes, it was found im- possible to adjudicate between the claims of the Company and those of his Majesty's Government, and therefore it became necessary that a compromise with the Company should take place. In a case so dark and complicated it was enough to show that no undue advantage had been taken by resorting to u compromise. He thought that the Company ought 10 be satisfied with the 030,0001. a year which they received as the interest arising trom their com- mercial property and he thought it was desirable, that the present system of government in India should be continued. The warmest friends of representative institu- tions agreed in opinion, that they were wholly inappli. cable to the present state of India, and It would therefore, in his opinion, be most unwise to give to that country a representative assembly. (Hear, hear.) It would be still more absurd to imagine, that the British House of Com- mons had either time or inclination to discuss the various questions connected with the affairs of India. A broken licad in Coldhaih Fields excited more interest than three pitched battles in India. (Cheeis and laughter.) It was therefore impossible to suppose, that the affairs of India could be fairly administered by the House of Commons, occupied as it was with questions that came more home to the feelings ar.d interests of the British people. He admitted that the government of the East India Company was an anomaly, but so was the country over which thoy ruled. (Hear.) He was convinced that the East India Company was the body, of all others, who were best adapted to govern the affairs of India. He felt it necessary to allude to one portion of the bill which admitted all classes of native Lillians to offices of the slate, no matter what might be their caste or colour. (Hear, hear.) He had heard it said that the natives of India could never be admitted to offices of trust. He de. nounced that illiberal and unjust assertion, and despised its policy. (Cheers.) It would be vain to conjecture what fate was reserved for our Indian possessions. It might be that in some future age the people of India would demand European institutions. The sceptre might pass away from our Lands but the triumph would be ours of having found a great nation sunk in a state of ignorance and bar- barity, and having rescued its people from their benighted state to tihare in the civilized blessings of free institutions, enlightened commerce, temperate laws, or beneficent reli- jgion, literature, arts, and sciences. The honourable and learned gentleman in resuming his seat was loudly cheered. Mr. C. WYNN said that iie was lost in the admira- tion which he felt in listening to the speech of the honour. able and learned gentleman, a speech which was eminent- ly distinguished for the purest eloquence and the most liberal and enlightened reasoning. (Hear, hear.) He was old enough to remember that Lord Grey, 20 years ago, said he could see no security for the Indian empire be- ing continued in our possession if such a measure a, the present were carried and even so late as five years ago, in 1828, a similar opinion had been expressed by several members of his Alaiesty's present government. He hoped therefore that ministers would pause before they passed the measure as it stood into a law. Mr, ANDREW JOHNSTON expressed a hope that provision would be made in the bill for the established religion of this country in India. Air. O'CONNELL rose to express his admiration of the speech of the hon. gentleman who moved the second reading of the bill. His admiration quite overbalanced him. It was one of the most eloquent he had ever heard, while it had the merit ot not possessing one meretricious ornament. He approved of the bill as a whole, but he thought that some of its details ought to be remedied. He was opposed to the granlingja 24 years' lease of India to the company; he objected also to the bargain in a pecuniary point of view. However, these,, with other matters, would be for the consideration of India. He was not at all satisfied with the plan for the government of the natives. Nothing could be more true than that the natives should be governed for their own benefit; but could they ever be elevated so long as the principal source of taxation was a land revenue ? They never could be elevated till some Jaw was made giving them fixity of title in the land. Mr. CHARLES GRANT would not detain the house forar.y lengthened period of time. He fully sympathized with the opinions which h'd been expressed respecting the splendid speech of his hon. friend, the member for IJeeds." He was delighted to find that there was so ge- neral. a feeling of approbation of the principle of the bill manifested by the house, and that whatever objec- tions were made applied to the details of the measure. He trusted hon. members would excuse him if he did not answer those objections seriatim. He could assure the house that in all the legislation of his Majesty's ministers relative to India, the great object they kept steadily in view was, the improvement and well being of its vast population. He considered it indis. pensable to the a abitity of the British dominions in the East, that the natives should have every protection afforded to their persons and propeny which was enjoyed by Europeans. He would never consent to remove a sin- gle restricl ion to the admission of Euiopeans to India, un- less he was previously perfectly assured that that admis- sion could bo made with most complete safety to the na- tives. Whether he should live to see that day or not, he knew that a rich harvest of blessings would arise to this country from its doing justice to the teeming popula- tion of India. Mr. C. FERGUSSON would suggest to his right hon. friend the propriety of pausing before he-made any derangement of the systemof slavery,whichwasonlyanotfier name for servitude, which had so long existed in thai country. He feared that great mischiet would follow any interference with that system. Mr, C. GRANT said, in an?^.er a question from Sir Robert Inglis, that he intended the bill should go into committee on Friday morning. The bill was then read a second tinie without a divi- sion. The house then adjourned at a quarter before two o'clock.

DUELLING.—For some time past duels have been unusually frequent in and near Paris. On Wed- nesday, two were fought, ill the Bois de Boulogne, between four young men, two of whom were dunge- rously wounded. An encounter also took place in the Plain of Grenelle, where about ten soldiers of different regiments fought with the sabre; two gre- nadiers were wounded. At Vincennes, an artillery. man killed his brigadier in a Iluel. Other meetings are said to have taken place on the Plain of Mousseaux. and near the Barne.e de Charonne- |

FASHION AND LITERATURE acrb«r His Majesty arrived iu town attended by Sit Taylor, about halfpast one o'clock Wednesday 8^ter^f from the palace at Windsor. The Duchess of was at the palace to receive the King. f His Majesty held a levee at two o'clock, at vhic pie. Baron de Blome, Envoy Extraordinary and 111118ter. Co nipotentiary from the King of Denmark, had an audle lit of his Majesty, to which he was introduced by Palmerston, as Secretary of State for Foreign ^ir>Q(re. conducted by Sir Robert Chester, the Master of the mon ies. j Baron de Vet'atolk de Soelen, Minister Plenip°teI)t' on a special mission from the King of the had an audience of the King, jo which he was by Viscount Palmerston, ami conducted by Sir Chester. ar Lord Albert Denison Conyngham was ried at St. George's, Hanover square, on Saturday,JJ. sister of Lord Forester and the Countess of Chestff

LITERA TURE. SAFETY LAMTFOR MINES. (From the London Guardian of July (J-) The Insecurity (,f Sir H. Dvy's tJ. demonstrated by a series of chemical exprrimeDIII, felf the perfect security of Upton and Robert/Newjg, Lamp proved by the same chemical facts." 8ro. 1833. ifi. This is a most important little pamphlet, the ficates of several eminent chemists and natural P f) sophers seem to prove, in the most conclusive u14" sophers seem to prove, in the most conclusive OlIF tbe f the sophers seem to prove, in the most conclusive u14" the supeiioriy of the new safety lamp over that ° (,ri I illustrious Davy. The series of experiments, ho* is not complete; none appears yet to have been .^j, with the fire damp in the actual state in wilicil 'SOO I found ill the mines. Artificial combinations of 99 b f $tic may approximate very nearly to it, but in a caseo. vital importance, nothing but the most positive be relied on. We think highly of the talents and fessional knowledge of Messrs. Partington and perelf but we would have preferred a set 01 experiments formed by Dr. Faraday, the worthy pupil and suet the of Sir Humphrey Davy. It was a delicacy due tj,»t memory of that great man, it is due also to the publlC' jp a new invention should be put to the severest teS order correctly to ascertain its just claims to Patr0.nil^|aiTiC Accidents have certainly occurred where the has been etrployed, and it may fail in instances in pot Messrs. Upion and Roberts have succeeded but n 1 11)$0 cases arise in which theirs would be found defective The investors will say No, but this assertion is "cif t belief not knowledge, and whoever has drawn up pamphlet has rendered them an ill service in sPea^)^^l, contemptuously of Sir II. Davy's lamp, wtiicii h*^ approved by the highest scientific authorities, 8,1 stood the test of experience for many years- jell high tone of perfect security" assumed for lamp is, lo say the least of it, premature. ji impression is from the certificates, that lhe ne« |jijt a great and valuable improvement 00 the old oi'e we repeat it, farther experiments are necessary to** the owners of mines to abandon Davy's lamp for i'* It is to be re^refted that the pamphlet does p° ,f vey the slightest hint as to the nature of the iBjP ^jll ments, and not knowing them, every scientific be staggered by the assertion that the new laWP secure even when the gauze was perforated so as to I e 011 duce a quill into the damaged part! This re the part of the inventors is injurious to their rests we cannot pin our faith on another's we must have a reason for it, and that reason mu.t bei given, before any invention, however perfect it fid can command general introduction, and especially tjt* present case, where life 3nd property to an immen .pt tent is at stake. A full account of the new imp'0* «tS' will be read with great interest by th» public, and 1 U. and R. will consult their own in giving it. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SIR,—The observations you have made in y° t[,i cellent publication of this day on our Pan0P f* S0tfe lamp, we must admit, are candid and judicious. I yjUi few points, however, we cannot entirely agree par icularly where you state, that the series 01 ments is not complete, because the lamp was "j mi* by some actual fire damp obtained from a CO" tta, Firedamp has been so frequently analyzed that 0, certainty now remains as to its component parts. Davy says, in his work on the safety lamp (Page j'jii^ analysis of various specimens of fire damp sho*e that the pure inflammable part of it was light car^ A,o&ft hydrogen, or, as Dr. Henry had before observed,by" combined with carbon. It is true the inflammable r#(!|i of the fire damp may vary, but it never c.n»P^ that of oxy.hydrogen RSS. With the propriety °^fo' suggestion, that Mr. Faraday, the pupil and suC,fe co&' Sir H. Davy, ought to have been applied to at mencement of ihese experiments, we perfectly c Had Mr. Faraday been neglected on this occasio should deserve to be censured for not having n# with the respect and delicacy which his merits cg\11' situation in the scientific world entitled him to if' This gentleman was applied to before Mr. Pere,r vestigation commenced, but he declined taking l'|f wfiatever in experiments of lhat kind. His re"s.v# which lie will, perhaps, at some future time i public. Whether we have been, as you consider, t°° 0j on the alleged defects of Sir H. Davy's lamp of are probably not the best judges. If we have s3jlljifi*11 than necessary to prevent farther destruction of it life from this cause, we regret it but be that #s ptl we cannot shelter ourselves under the plea that of the pamphlet bearing our signature was wriftel' other person. To be very delicate on a subject,. your own words, where life and property to an 1 extent are at stake," when speaking plainly serve them from danger, would, we conceive, t^ wise nor just. 11 ow far we are justified in u<-eCt term perfect security, which you so decidedly as applied to our new lamp, we are willing to | the decision ot those who may by chemical tests tigate its powers. We can, however, assert th*1' j oxygen and hydrogen can be found in natural c°^ tion as gaseous bodies, a circumstance which ne be expected, this lamp cannot inee £ in coal mi»cS sq& places, unless produced by artificial means, plosive as those to which it has now been su bjelV<!r lhe principle on which the new lamp is cO' t and by which it is rendered safe, will be re dily 110,110, I stood by your scientific readers, when they are (II' the air admitted is confined to the support of t to only—and thus, as little or no pure air can PaS^ed ii1 other part of the lamp, all combustion is dfstr0^iU except at or near the wick. This explanation f\ haps render it unnecessary to account for the M Pereira staled, of this lamp being safe, althoUj» t was a perforation large enough to admit a jj wire gauze cylinder. We are aware, from tions we have hitherto met, that it may require t?' I to be said and shown before the Davy lanip all e ,III tirely removed from the miners' use. The faolo boll has, and must ever attend the name of Sir H« 1 ju I it is too true, long given a dangerous confi**cn | lamp. But facts are stubborn things, and the chemical tests are the facts, as well as tlie sjn6^ I accidents which have happened from explosion p introduction, by which Sir II. Davy's lamP j, I condemned. ^ijf We admit to its full extent, since reading J^e (1% j servatior.s, the justness of jour charge, I omitted in our pamphlet much that ought to t(riufJ • inserted. Our reason, at that time, for not c*1 !•* I fully into the subject as we now see we oug(e* done, was the fear of writing more than would I Your inserting the afcov%rpll greatly oblige | Your obedien1P'trvants, UM'ON and ROB** 66, Basinghall street, 9th July, 1833.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULV 10. The House (which sat on appeals in the morning) re- sumed at five o'clock. The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition from the Welsh residing in London, complaining of the clergy appointed to livings in Wales not being acquainted with the language; one from Paisley, signed numerously by merchants, bankers, and traders, stating that the episco- pal Church in Ireland had been the cause of great dissatis- faction, and praying for its total abolition also, one to the same effet from the ministers, elders, and others of Glasgow. AGRICULTURAL LABOURERS' RATE BILL.

SUMMER CIRCUITS. ..4 (From the London Gazette.) Crown Office, July 2. Day3 and Places appointed for holding the Summer As- sizes, viz. 1 NORTHERN CIRCUIT. The Right Honourable Sir Thomas Denmnn, Knt. Lord Chief Justice, and Ilr. Baron Bolland. Yorkshire—Saturday, July 13, at the Castle of York. City of York-The same day, at the Guildhall of the City of York. ■Durham—Saturday, July 27, at Duthim. Northumberland—Wednesday, July 31, at Newcastle- upon-Tyne. Town of NeivcaslIe-rtpon'Tyne—.The same day, at the Guildhall of Newcastle-upon- Tyne. Ctimberl(,tnd -Saturday, August 3, at Carlisle. Westmorland—Thursday, August 8, at Appleby. Laitcasliii-e-Monday, August 12, at Lancaster. OXFORD CIRCUIT. The Right Honourable Sir Nicholas Conyngham Tinddl, Knt. Lord Chief Justice, and Mr. Baron Gurney. Yorkshire—-Thursday, July 11, at Abingdon. O.rfordshit-e-Saturday, July 13, at Oxford. Worcestershire-,ritursday, July 18, at Worcester. City of Worcester—The same day, at the City of Wor- cester. Staffordshire- Tuesday, July 23, at Staffon'. Shropshire—Tuesday, July 30, at Shrewsbury. lIet-efordshii-e-Saturday. August 3, at Hereford. Monmouthshire-Wednesday, August 7, at Monmouth. Gloucestershire—Saturday, August 10, at Gloucester. Cit of Gloucester— The same day, at the City of Glou- cester. NORFOLK CIRCUIT. The Right Honourable John Singleton Lord Lyndhurst, Lord Chief Baron, and Mr. Justice Littledale. Buckinghamshire — Thursday, July 18, at Buckingham. Bettfordsktre—Monday, Jll]y 22, at Bedford. HHn/inpdoJMA.re-Thur.day, July 25, at Huntingdon. Camb,^MAu-e-Saturday, Juiy 27, at Cambridge. Svffi,r\ 1iday\ Ju'y 31, at Bury St. Edmund's. Norfolk Saturday August 3, at the Castle ot Norwich. City of Norwich— The same Day, at the Guildhall of the City of Norwich. J HOME CIRCUIT. Mr. Baron Bayley, Mr. Baron Vaughan, and Mr. Justice James Pilrke. Hertfordshire Wednesday, July 10, at Hertford. Essex ^Vlonday, July lr>, at Chelmsford. Kent Monday, July 22. at M«idstone. Sussex—Saturday, July 27 at pwe, Surrey-Thursday, August 1, at Croydon. MIDLAND CIRCUIT. Before Mr. Justice Park and Mr. Justice Taunton. -Northamptonshire-alonday, July 8, at Northampton. Tjuttand—Friday, July 12. at Oakham. Lincolnshire—.Saturday, July 13 at the Castle of Lin- coln. City of Lirtcoln-Tlie same day, at the City of Lincoln. NottmghamsJnre-Fnday, July 19, at Nottingham; lown of Nottingham-Th same day, at the Town of Nottingham. Derbyshire—Wednesday, July 24 at Derby. Leicestei-shi,-c -Saturday) July 27, at the Castle of Leicester. Borough of Leicester-The same day at the Borough of Leicester. City of Ci)ventiy-Tilursday, August 1, at the City of Coventry. Warwickshire—The same day, at Warwick. WESTERN CIRCUIT. I' Mr. Justice Alderson andi;, Justice Patfeson. So u thii mplo?t -Tuesday, July 9, at the Castle of Win- chester. Wiltshire—Saturday, July 13, at New Sarum. Dorsetshire-Thursday, July 18, at Dorchester. Devonshire—Wednesday, July 24, at the Castle of Exeter. City of Exeter—The same day, at the Guildhall of the City of Exeter. Cornn,all- Wednesday, July 31, at Bodmin. Somersetshire Tuesday, August G, at Bridgwater. City of Bristol-Alonday, August 1*4, at the Guildhall of the City of Bristol. CIRCUIT for the COUNTY of CHESTER and PRINCIPALITY of WALES. Mr. Justice Gaselee and Mr. Justice Bosanquet. Glamorganshire Saturday. July 6, at Cardiff. Carmarthenshire—Saturday. July 13, at Carmarthen. Borough of C(ii-marthei&I'he same day, at the Bo- rough of Carmarthen. Montmomery shire—-Saturday, July 13, at Welch pool. Merionethshire—Wednesday, July 17, at Dolgelly. Pembrokeshirc-Satur(hy, July 20, at Haverfordwest. Town of Ifaverfoi-dwcst-The same day, at the Town of Haverfordwest. Carnarvonshire—Saturday, July 20, at Carnarvon. Cai-diganshire-Wedneedaty, July 24, at Cardigan. Anglesey-Wednesday. July 24, at Beaumaris. Denbighshire-Saturday, July 27, at Ruthin. Rrecknockshire Saturday, July 27, at Brecon. Flintshire—Wednesday, July 31. at Mold. Radnorshire—Wednesday, July 31, at Presleign. Cheshire—-Saturday, August 3, at Chester. CILeshire-Saturùay, August 3, at Chester.

INCENDIARISM.—Between the rng off work on Saturday week and their ment on Monday morning, some wickedly t( I sons had, by means of what is called a (fu'^jje*1y scendi d the main pic of Earl Fitzwiliam's e°^t 0" | Rawmarsh, and actually contrived to set the [t\i It appears, from the depression of the coa' 1 other circumstances, that the establishment (tf been reduced in the number of the workmen, a considerable reduction of wages made wl ujo** the rest; it is, therefore supposed that froi» 40' arisen the provocation to this vile deed. closed up with a view to smother out the fiflWj^ the known difleulty of accomplishing such >°<y where the mines are extensive, it is feared must elapse before ihey can be permanent'? J) Sheffield I i-it. ,f hotig, THE SEASON IN THE NORTII-' twe set) per the weather has been changeable during th pc por Ib' a large quantity of hay has been secured i° counties, and a week or two of fine weather 0 great bulk of the present crop fairly in the wheat and other corn crops want sun and other respects the prospect is promising.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 9. At five o'clock, the Lord CHANCELLOR, the Marques? of LAXSDOWNE, and the Duke of Iticil- MOND, took their scitis as Lords Commissioners, when (the house of Commons having been summoned, and the Speaker with many members having appeared at the b ■ r] the RIJlal Assent waj given to the Exchequer Bills Bill, the National Debt Reduction Bill, Sergeant's Inn Bill, and three private Bills. TTh,Kr,r1^ V^NARV0N took t,!e 03tl|s a«J his seat. IRISH CHURCH TEMPORALITIES BILL. On tlit- Irish Church Bill being brought up, The Duke of BUCKINGHAM seeing the noble earl at the head oi the government in his place, wished to know fro;.1 hun when he meant to move the first reading of the Irish Church Bill ? Earl GREV said his intention was to pursue the very same course with it as with other bills, that was imme- diately to move that it be read a first time, and appoint.a day tor the second reading. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM understood that there were matters in it that would affect the prerogative of the crown. He wished to know whether the noble earl was authorized to bring down a formal message to show that his Majesty approved of the bill. Earl GREV said he was prepared to give his Majesty's consent in the usual manner. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM apprehended that when a surrender of the prerogative was asked for it was necessary for the ministers to bring down a regular message. ° E .rl GREY believed that the noble duke was wrongly informed. The usual course was that his majesty's cn. sent should be expressed to the house by one of the ministers of the crown besides, their lordships had been recommended to take this subject in'to their considera- tion in his speech from the throne at the beginning of the sessions. The Duke of CUMBERLAND said, that there had been so many alterations in the bill since presented to the House of Commons, that he defied any man to be ac- quainted with the cxict terms of it. The Fa. I of ELDON said that it was rather curious that the noble earl opposite should oppose the motion for obtaining his Majesty's consent before the first reading of a bill reciting that consent. The bill was then read a first time. THE LOCAL JURISDICTION BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the third read- ing of the Local Jurisdiction Bill. Lord Wll ARNCLIFFE rose to move as an amend nirnt to the motion made by the noble and learned lord that this bill be read a third time that day six months. (Hear, j He had given no opposition to this bill hereto- fore, as he was anxious that their lordships should have the biil before them in the most perfect way that its author could wish, in order that they should really understand the value of the measure, and the grounds of opposition to it. He trusted that in coming to a deci- sion upon this measure, their lordships would not be intimidated by what was said out of doors. (Hear, hear.) It was said that the poor wanted this measure, and that their lordships had no right to prevent them having it (Hear, hear,) that the eyes of the country were upon fliem, and that in fact unless they passed this measure they would place themselves in direct opposition to the wishes of the people. (Hear.) Were they to be intimidated by such threats from doing their tluty ? (Heir, hear.) No; they would pursue the right path despite of threats, no matter from whom they came. (Hear.) He thought that it was their peculiar duty to look to the measure before the house, for from the num. b(r of noble peers who were in that house, and who for- merly belonged to the legal profession, they were much moie eapable of considering its provisions than any other body. (Hear, heJr.) He had deeply considered this bill, and the result of his- consideration was this, that this bill would inflict injury rather than confer benefit upon this country. (Hear, hear.) Under it the poor man would not be more benefited. Though expensive law was, yet the poor man (such was the state of society) always received the most humane con- sideration of a British jury. (Cheers.) The Sheriff's Courts of Scotland had been instanced as an example of the good which was likely to arise from this bill but he thought the Sheriff's Court in that country was any t iing but a satisfactory proof or' the reisults that might be anticipated from the present measure. From the im- pression on his mind, and that arising from the deepest conviction of the impolicy of the bill, he felt it to be his duty to move that it be read that day six months. Lord LYNDHURST said that he had to apologize to the house for presenting himself so early to its considera- tion; but in' doing so. he thought it right to assure the house that he would discuss it without the ulightest animus. He should take a calm review of the subject, though he was accused out of doors of being influenced by political feeling. That he did disclaim. When l ie noble und learned friend proposed the measure, he told nig noble and learned friend that he would oppose it. For the present bill he would say that such never was offered to the house before. It gave to his noble tnd learned friend the appointment of as many judges as he chose at a salary of 2,0001. a year- It might so haPI en that, at some future period the exalted situation roij. hi be filled by a person, though of as great talents as his noble and Iearnned friend, yet not as much pru- dence, and this patronage might be most uncon. stitutionalJy exercised. Therefore it was from the conviction that 110 minister of the crown ought to possess such a patronage, that he felt it his impera- tive duty to oppose the measure. Another ground was that of the expense, for by this bill by his noble and leared friend's own estimate, the whole expense of the administration of ih, laws in the superior courts did not amount to more than 100,0001. while under the pre- sent bill, for doing only a part of the business, it would cost upwards of 150,0001. annually. He agreed with the noble earl who had spoken last, that if there was no other objection than the resident judges, they, from the narrow limits of their jurisdiction must from their local knowledge become acquainted with every person in ir, even the juries, so mu,.h so, that they must become biassed and influenced by local prejudices. (Cheers.) The noble lord then went on to contend that it was a measure pregnant with evil. If the principles of the an- cient law were maintained, they were that judges ought to be actual strangers to every person and thing except the merits of the question before them. (Cheers.) He would then call the attention of the house to the provisions of the bill. The present measure would transfer all the business of Wistminster Hall to the local courts; and could there be a fair trial there ? No. certainly not for it was already tried in the gossip of the town. The average number of cases in the superior courts were for sums under 501., the sum li. mited by the bill of his learned and noble friend. But his noble and learned friend had, he thought, found no remedy for the removal of causes from Westminster, for bv giving security for damages and costs it could be removed back again to Westminster. The rich man could certainly a»kerhe,irVty; !>Ut tH# P°Zr mu° C°Uld not' a"d he would their lordships was that the poor man's bill ? 1I mid SR.. TI" N"B,E •"•D 'ERN,!D I°"1 .H„ Pr«s«nt measure, in the event of a iarv find- ing, from caprice or any other cause, a verdict against evidence, admitted of no redress. The -bill he contended, g0 far from being a protection to the he hadianThr ^e mean'! of dePrivi"g him of that which H I. I'K u f.1,^ may himself commit an error in law. He had by this bill todecide on his own error, and there was no obligation to grant anew trial, as in the higher courts at present. J he noble and learned lord concluded a most eloquent speech with adverting to many other provisions of the bill, and sat down amidst great cheering. Lord PLUNKETT rose, he haid, under the deepest feelings of interest. The noble and learned lord who had just sat down had objected to the principle of the bill, upon the ground that it would interfere with the courts of Westminster; but he would say that when those courts were established, there might have been the same objections to them. But times haJ changed, and they then were entitled to adopt any changes in the laws which the changes of the times justified. The working of the bill alluded to in Ireland was a sufficient guarantee that the present measure deserved the greatest possible attention. He did not see how the minor jurisdiction would take business from the superior courts. He was willing to sympathise with his noble and learned friend in the eulogium pronounced on the English bar, but he would say, that the establishment of the present measure would not deteriorate from the merits of the bar. His noble and learned friend had ridiculed the idea of the present bill being the poor man's bill. He contended that it was the poor man's bill, for if the poor man was not able to pay, he had only to appear before a commissioner, and if he then surrendered what he possessed it was taken in satisfaction for the debt or it he did not surrender hi* property, he would then suffer a just punishment. The noble ,lord went through many details of the bill, and took the same view which has been already before the public. The noble lord conctuded by supporting the bill. Lord WYNFORD said that the speech of his noble and learned friend fully answered all the arguments of the noble and learned lord who last addressed the house. The patronage in this bill was a most unconstitutional one; and he would ask the noble lord on the woolsack, how many applications he had already received from members of parliament for situations under this bill ? (Cheers and laughter.) He was anxious lhat there should be a more efficacious and a cheaper method of recovering small debts than that which at present existed (Hear )-but he objected to the plan now suggested for -a, P'^P0- This bill was said to have the concurrence o t e aw comurisgior.efs. He denied this in toto, and he had authority to make the denial. Every judge also to whom he had spoken was hostile to this bill. By this bill there could be no appeal. Now he would be glitd to hear any noble lord who knew any thing of the ope- ration ot law to get up and define this part of the bill. (Hear.) Why should such a power as this be given to an inferior judge, when the judge of the superior courts had it not ? (Hear.) He was anxious, as he before said, to facilitate the recovery of small debts, but seeing as he^ did so many objections to the bill before their lordships, he must oppose the third reading. The LORD CHANCELLOR assured their lordships that it was with great anxiety he rose to address them upon this important subject-upon a inc isure looked at with importance, r.ot only by their lordships, but by the people out of doors—(hear)—and in saying this, he meant nothing more than to refer to the feeling which in reality existed on this subject. (Hear.) He should ud- dress their lordships as shortly as possible, and first he would advert to the arguments used by his noble friend (Lord W ynford,) and in doing so he should be as brief a possible—not because he had not great respect for the intelligence and ability of his noble and learned friend, but because he appeared to be perfectly unacquainted. not merely with the principles of the bill not merely. with the details of the bill, but with the very documents in his own hands. (Hear, hear.) For example, the noble and learned lord had said that local courts were boundless throughout the country, and that they were not used by the people. Now, what was the fact ? Why, that in the Palace Court 921 causes were tried in 1832, while not less thin7,000 writs were issued out of the very same court 19 the same year, and al! this his noble and learned friend could have ascertained if he had looked at the documents in his hand. (Hear.) The noble lord had deprecated the principle of local judges and yet the great iame of his noble friend, his purity of character, shone foith with greatest lustre in his capacity of local judgf- namely, as Chairman of Quarter Sessions and yet his noble friend, although a political character— although one who could bear personal affection and entertain personal enmity (a laugh)-yet the purity of his high character was never sullied by the breath of slander, by saying that he acted in opposition to the principle of justice an I foir doling. (Hear, hear.) and yet this is the noble lord that comes down to de- nounce local Judges as being liable to become prejudiced (Hear.) Yes, that noble lord, notwithstanding his political feeling and his strong prejudices, was no more likely to ot charged with illiberal, unjust, and corrupt conduct as n local magistrate than either of his noble and learned friends were in their capacity of judges in the higher courts of law. (Hear, hear.) His noble and learned friend the Chief Baron had made statements respecting the bill not justified by the fact. He stated thdt there were to be four Judges in the vfest Riding of York. Where his noble and learned friend learned this he could not say, and his noble friend's statement cn this subject would have done credit to the correctness of his noble friend the late Chief Justice of the Common Pleas. (Hear, and laug' ter.) Lord WYNFORD-I will not be held up to ridicule by any one. (Cries of Order.) The LORD CHANCELLOR assured his noble and learned friend that he had no such intention. He onlv adverted to the inaccuracy of his noble and learned friend arising from his not having perused the documents which were accessible to him. Dean Swift remarked that Lord WYNFORD again rose, amidst cries of order and hear, and begged to request that the 15:h order of their lordships' house should be read by the clerk. (Hear.) The Clerk then read the order, amidst laughter, which was created by the peculiar phraseology of the order. It said that all persons shall avoid saying any thing sharp to another, or tax him—but that nothing was to be taken offensively (laughter) if nothing was offensively meant. (Hear.) And that if a party make a fair explanation (a laugli), this sliall be received. (Laughter, and cries of hear.) Earl GREY rose, but The LORD CHANCELLOR interfered, and said that he would conform to the modern usage as respected the order in question, and say nothing taxing I a laugh) or sharp, and he trusted that nothing would be ill taken that was not ill meant. (Hear.) He took no offmce at the sharp and taxing speech of the noble Chief Ba. run, although it was certainly both sharp and taxing. (Hear, hear.) He denied t^at the expense of the new judges would be 150,0001. a year, as hinted by the noble lord (Lord Lyndhurst) on the contrary, it would not exceed 60.0901. of 70,0001. But even this expense Nould not be borne by the country, for it would be made up out of small fees. The noble and learned lord then entered into an explanation of the patronage which was said to rest in his hand, in consequence of the passing of the Bankruptcy Bill, and proceeded to show that it was less than that enjoyed by former chancellors undtrthe old system. Hii noble and learned friend the Chief Baron was pleased to be jocose in describing the bill before the house as the poor man's bill. He (the Lord Chancellor) contended that the appellation was perfectly correct, for to all intents and purposes the bill was for the benefit of the poor man, who, under its provisions, would be enabled to obtain not only cheap but speedy law, and he hoped as the poor man's bill, it would obtain the sanction of their lordships. He would not believe that they would refuse to pass this bill. He was not there to flatter their lordships, but he would state the plain truth, and it was (his, that if this bill was tl rown out, it would in no degree relax his exertions in favour of law reform. (Cheers.) Whoever thought so reckened without their host, and mistook their man. (Renewtd cheering.) lie begged to say that in accepting the high office which he filled, his great object and desire was to amend the abuses of the law, (hear, hear, hear.) and whatever might be the fate of this bill, he would never relax his exertions to procure cheap law for tile poor man. But how would the hopes of the country be damped if this bill were lost ? Would not the people feel that their lordships were regardless of the wants and wishes of the poor. (No, no, no.) Well, then, they were not regardless of the wants of the people, and that being the case, he claimed their votes for this bill The noble and learned lord concluded by putting the amendment. The house divided, when there ai)i)eared- PEERS PRESENT. Contents 81 Non-contents 81 XT PROXIES. Non-contents ,r>3 Contents 41 Majority against the amendment -12 1 lie Din was then read a third time. On the question that the bill do pass, there appeared- Contents • (jg Non-contents 76 Majority against the bill —8 Objections were then taken to three of the peers who had voted against the bill, on the ground that they were not present when the question was put. The objections were admitted, when the numbers stood thus- Contents (that the bill do pass) 68 Non contents 73 Majority 5 The bill was consequently thrown out, Adjourned at a quarter te Two o'clock. We should observe that the gallery was not opened to strangers during the discussion that took place on the question which was put last, and there was some difficulty in procuring the result of the division. HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 9 Mr.C. FERGUSSON rose to bring forward his motion on the subject of Poland. He said it was a subject that deeply involved the honour and character of this country. The motion he intended to lay before the house he had so framed as not to leave any grounds he hoped for an oppo- sition to it. He could assure his Majesty's ministers that he did not bring forward the present motion with any view to their embarrassment, but solely with the inten- tion of having the expression of the feelings of that house on this question. He would say without tear of contra. diction, that since the days of Herod there never existed a system of such barbaruus and heartless tyranny as now existed in Poland under the sway ot the Emperor of Russia. Five thousand families of Polish gentlemen were for ever banished from their native land, merely because they returned to Poland within the period limited by the decree of the tyrant Autocrat. Five thousand families of Polish gentlemen. Good God Let the house suppose for a moment that 5,000 families of Englishmen were transported to the wilds of Hanover without a crime, how would the English nation brook ouch an act-(hear, hear, hear)—yet this was done by a European Monarch in the present civilized age in defiance of an amnesty solemnly entered into. (Hear, hear.) There were now upwards of 1,000 Polish soldiers who were working in the fortresses of Prussia, and who preferred remaining there than avail themselves of the offer to return to their own country. because they doubted the hollow professions of the Em: Peror of Russia, and justly believed that they were meant but to betray. The sole object of the Emperor of Rus- sia appeared to be to exterminate the Polish nation and People their unfortunate country with hordes of Rujisian slaves. He cal!ed upon civilized Europe, and he called upon England in particular, to put an end to such a barbarous system of tyrarny as prevailed in Poland at this period. In the year 1793, Mr. Grey, now the Prime Minister of England, moved an address to his Majesty with reference to the second partition of Poland, which was described as an act of unprincipled cruelty yet that act was nothing in point of moial guilt or illegality compared with the system of unprincipled cruelty practised by Russia towards Pol. nd at the present moment. h Will you go to war with Russia ?" had been asked. No. he (Mr. Fergusson) would not go 10 war with Russia, but he would not shrink beneath her power. (Hear, hear.) He would Bot tremble at her name. (Renewed cheers.) He called upon his Majesty's ministers not to negating motion by moving the previous question upon it. If they did do be. he would only fciiy that they would be sunk lower in the depths ot unpoputa- rity tliun ever. (Cheers.) He called upon the house to support his motion with the view of showing to the Em- peror of Russia that free botn England was alive to >e wrongs of unhappy Poland. He had no wish to embarrass his Majesty's Ministers by bringing forward this motio-i, and lie was convinced that it' it were agreed to his Ma- jesty's government would receive additional strength in Europe. The honourable and learned enllemtln con. eluded by moving" An address to his Majesty that lie would be graciously pleased not to recognize or in any way give the sanction of his government to the present political state and condition of Poland, the same having been brought about in violation of the treaty of Vienna, to which treaty Great Britain was a party." he h°n and learned gentleman in resuming his seat was loudly cheered by the few members (about 30) who were in the house. Mr. THOMAS ATTWOOD seconded the motion. Sir It. 1NGLIS said great national sins were sure sooner or laier to be visited with national punishmen1. The great national, or rather European sin of the letfl century was the partition of Poland and he did feel tiiat the time would come when that enormous i and heinous crime would meet with its deserved punishment, He thanked God Great Britain had not, either directly or indirectly, been a party to that crime. He had only to add in conclusion, that he felt gratitude to the hon. member who had brought the subject of the wrongs of Poland before the house. Lord PALM MRS TON said, that as this country was a contracting party in the case of the treaty of Vienna, that house had an undoubted right to entertain and expreSs an opinion as to how far the terms of that treaty were fulfilled. When Poland was united with Russia it was to have a separate constitution of its own. That consti- tution was destroyed and he held that even the late rebellion against the authority of Russia did not give the latter power, on putting down the rebellion of the Poles, the right to abrogate the constitution of 1815. He did not justify the insurrection of the Poles in all its ob- jects. He had no hesitation in saying that the attempt 10 throw off all subjection to the Emperor was at once unjustifiable and uncalled for still he adhered to the opinion he had just expressed, that the treaty of Vienna was as binding on Nicholas after as before that revolu- tion. He could not but think, that however the house might conclude as to the construction of the treaty of Vienna given by his honourable and learned friend, that the house would be satisfied that his Majesty's govern- ment had ated justifiably in not having interposed on behalf of the Poles when Russia was attempting to crush the liberty and annihilate the independence of that gal lant people. Their non-interference was the only way, as will eventually be seen, 10 have averted a general war in Europe. lie had no idea that the decision of the house, though strongly condemnatory of the con- duct of Russia, would have the effect of making that power retrace its steps. Any interposition at the presem moment, on the part of this country 011 behalf of Poland, would be found to be wholly useless. Mr. O'CONNELL; trusted the enlightenment of the world would put an end to the barbarous course which Nicholas was pursuing. The noble lord stood up as the af ologist for Nicholas. lie represented that monarch as a generous and merciful man, and that he was only unfortunate in the choice of his servants. It was very strange that he should always find men worse than him- self. Mr. O'Connell then went into a detail of the per- sonal acts of the Emperor of Russia, in proof of his tyrannical and inhuman propensities. Good God is such a man to be held up as generous and merciful, and that too by a minister of the British crown ? He would challenge any man to contradict the state- that too by a minister of the British crown ? He would challenge any man to contradict the state- ments he had made relative to the personal atrocities ot the Russian monarch. (Loud cries of Hear, hear.) He would as soon associate with the greatest ruffian at the Old Bailey, as with the princely monster of Russia. There was no necessity for going to wilr-there was a moral feeling abroad in the world which would eventually and ere long put an end to the barbarities of the royal miscreant of St. Petersburgb. He repeated that it was of the utmost importance that both that house and the country should unite in disavowing all participation in the crimes which had been lately and were now practising towards the Poles. Lord JOHN RUSSELL deprecated in the strongest manner the violent language used by the hon. and learned member for Dublin in speaking of the Emperor of Russia. That was the very way to defeat the object he professed to have in view. When the hon. and learned member who introduced the subject saw how his motion had b en supported that it was supported by one hon. member who counselled a war in seek- ing to rediess the wrongs of Poland, and by another whose speech consis'ed of a coarse personal philippic against the Emperor of Russia-when he considered this he hoped he would see the propriety of withdrawing his motion. Lord ALTHORP said that he had hoped the hon gentleman who had brought forward this motion would not have persevered in it. The house would recollect that the present administration came inro office on the avowed principle of preserving peace. The government not shrink from war because of any dread «s to the re ^or he felt quite confident that so long aS l'rance '?i? "n8'and were united, there was nothing to fe»r e resi of Europe. He did however hope that the cala- 'f, ,°. ^ar would be long prevented. What situation V8 f^ajes,y be placed in if such an address «ere If m hat answer could he give to such an ad ress. flip t,43 difficult situation that induced him to oppose present motion^ by moving the previous question, nii 1 A«BURTON asked the house if it was pre- o hJ S 1(u.U '^e Pre8f;n' motion be carried, to fol ow 11 nnrt T| in a war with Russia ? He had sup- in ^laiesly,» ministers when they came into office xhnnhl ec'aration to maintain peace, and he cer ain y !i!pm in" now give a vote that would tend to embark inem in a war. (cheers.) If a war should be embarked ? !?nt of Poland, was the issue of such a war T- Whhout «>e concurrence of Prussia or of .1 was therefore, opposed to any declara ion 0 lhe Pa" °f 'his counrry that might embroil us with — "rep"ei •• Mr. HUAlii said that he considered the conduct of Russia as not only a violation of treaties, but o< the first principles of humanity. He did not intend to repeat any language which he might have used on a former occasion as to lhe Emperor Nicholas. He had then spoken under 6 eCT u-1"88' which might be excused in consideralton *f he subject that called it forth. He did not wish to embaik his Majesty's government in a war with »•»««, e wished to have such a declaration from that Mr'siS P^vem the possibility of a war. Mr. J.1 ANLEY was not surprised at the declaration of sympathy that he had that night heard from so many hon gentlemen towards Poland! because the subject was one that must call forth the best feelings of every man who loved the sacred cause of freedom. There were other .u.B" .1 1 1 powers in Europe, whose interests were more deeply involved in the treaty of Vienna than England was and was it not just to look at the manner in which those other powers viewed the construction of tilat treaty ? (Hear.) Hia noble friend (Lord Palmerston) had told the house that he not only differed with the government of Russia as to the construction of the treaty of Vienna, but that he had remonstrated with Russia as to the con. duct of that power towards Poland but this could only be a friendly remonstrance, for an angry remonstrance could only lead to no good end. Was there any man in that house who called out for war ? If so, let him stand forth. Let the advocate for war, blood, and slaughter, stand up and avow himself the disturber of the peace of Europe. (Cheers.) Here the right honourable gentleman paused for a moment, and then exclaimed—" What, not one for war A voice calicd out, 14 1 am for war." but we could not learn from whom it proceeded. Mr. STANLEY in continuation—He should not de. tain the house longer, but would give the hon. gentleman who declared for war an opportunity of staling his reasons for that declaration. lie still hoped that his honourable friend (Mr.C, Fergussr)n) would withdraw his motion but if in this he should be disappointed, he must vote for the rejection of the motion by tupporting the previous question. Lord D. STUART said that the very arguments of his Majesty's Ministers convinced him that they felt the badness of their own cause. They said that the present motion was linked lIh a declaration of war but he denied that it was so. But suppose such were the case- was England, he would ask, the only country that was afraid of war ? Was Prussia, he should like to know, desirous of a war with this country ? He did not think she was in a situation for such an encounter. (Hear.) They were told that the Emperor of Russia Willi a most amiable and excellent man but what had this to do with the question? He cared not what the private character of the Emperor Nicholas w-s-all he looked at was his conduct towards Poland. It was his poliiical system and his atrocities in Poland that they had to consider. The contest in Poland was not over yet. The Poles still had blood in their veins, and would yet shed that blood, or else be free. (Cheers.) An Hon. MEMBER said that he was sure that house and the country would respond to any answer his Ma- jesty would be pleased to give to the address on the con- duct of Russia. (Cheers.) Mr. SHEIL said that the hon. gentleman who had brought forward this motion ought to have well consi- dered this question before he brought it under the consi- deration of the house, for had he not brought it forward it was clear the house would not be in the dilemma it was then in. (Laughter.) Hating, howtver, propounded his motion to the house, it would be a matter of still more serious consideration tor the hon. gentleman if he would consent to withdraw it at the request of his Ma- jesty s ministers. He recollected that the honourable gentl-jnian had on a former occasion withdrawn a similar motion on a similar request. What would be the conse- quence of thus withdrawing the motion ? Why, it would tie nothing less than an admission that we were afraid of Russia. (Hear.) It would only show that we could make speeches in the English Parliament and leave Poland to pt-rtah. (Cheers.) He was no advocate for war, but he would prefer the horrors of war to the igno- miny and disgrace of England. (Cheers.) Mr. C. I< ERGUSSON said that, in reply to the hon. gentleman who had just spoken, he could only say that he had well considered his motion before he brought it for- ward, and that having brought it forward, he would abide by it. (Cheers.) Sir R. PEEL said, that he should at that late hour confine the few observations he had to make within as small a compass as possible but as the hon. gentleman who had brought forward this motion had expressed his intention, to press it to a division, he could not refrain from assigning his reasons for not supporting the hon. gentleman on that division. He considered the language of the motion as too vague and indefinite to be sanctioned by that house, and he could not advise the crown by an address of this nature to interfere in a manner that could produce no result. The hon. gentleman had said Hiat he expected no good to arise from his motion. To what end then if such were the case did he bring it forward ? Was this to be only a mer. brittum fititreit to Russia? (Cheers.) He was not an advocate for adopting such a useless course, because if there were real grounds for the interference of this country, we ought not to shrink from the consequences of asserting a right. No man could sympathise more strongly in the fate of Poland than he did, and if the statements of the honourable gentleman were correct, he could not sufficiently express his regret that Russia had pursued such a course. Nothing could be more repugnant to the feelings of humanity than the car- rying off into slavery the children of Poland, who were not orphans. Russia herself, in the case of Greece, had interfered on the express ground that the conduct of Turkey was in violation of the common rights of huma- nity. He had heard that the removal of the Polish children as had been described was intended for their benefit but the case as now stated, if true, gave the transaction a very different complexion. The present motion, however, was not the mode by which any evil of the kind could be remedied, and he could not, therefore, give it his support. Lord SANDON opposed the motion on the ground, that it would, if carried, be only holding out delusive hopes to Poland which could not be realized. The gallery was then cleared for a division, when the numbers were- For the motion 95 Againstit 177 Majority • • -82 The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the house adjourned at three o'clock.