The North Wales Times

of that stone was the great amount of dust ich it produced in summer, and the question OW was, whether something should not be d ne to remedy the state of affairs by using a etter soone. The Surveyor now recommended oh., fc a quantity of Gwyddelwern stone be pur- chased to be laid on a level road within the Borough as an experiment. Mr. Rouw proposed that the test recommen- ded by the Surveyor be made, that 24 cons of Gwyddelwern stone be purchased, provided the cost would not exceed 6s. per ton. This was seconded, and carried. A discussion then took place as to what road the stone should be put on, Mr. R. P. Da vies suggested that it be Mwrog Street, which was not in a very satisfactory condition, but Mr. John Roberts pointed out that this was a main road, and proposed that the experiment should be made on a district road to be carried out at the discretion of the Surveyor, Mr. Thomas Williams seconded bub only 4 voted in favour of the motion, and it was, therefore, lost. Ultimately, it was decided, on the motion of Mr. T. J. Rouw, seconded by Mr.T. H. Roberts, that the matter should be left entirely to the discretion of the Surveyor. THE COAL FUND COMMITTEE. The next business on the agenda was to re- ceive the report of the Coal Fund Committee. Mr. John Roberts asked when was this Com- mittee appointed ? The May or It was appointed a long time ago. Mr, John Roberts Was it subsequent to the abolition o Committees The ME-yor replied that he had not taken the resolution decided upon on the 9th of Novem- ber to include anything but the Standing Com- mittee?. He did not consider the decision to abolish Committees to mean Special Commit- tees of the whole Council. Therefore, he had t £ fcen apon himself to ask every member of the Council to meet on the previous Wednes- day to consider the question of distribution. The report of the Committee was then read. After referring to last year's distribution, it stated that a cheque for fl4 10s. had been re- ceived as a result of the Charity Ball recently held in the town, and that Mr. Phillips and Mr. John Roberts had been appointed to revise the list of poor for consideration of the Com- mittee. Mr. Rouw moved the adoption of the report, and this, having been seconded, was agreed to. Mr. Mayor said he should formally announce to the Council that he had received from the Managing Committee of the Charity Ball a cheque for t' 14 10s., and he now begged to move that the Council thank the Committee for their services in this matter, and also that no charge be made for the use of the Assembly Rooms. In that case, the sum of 30s. usually charged for the rooms, would be added to the amount of tue cheque, so as to make the amount a r-and figure of £16 (hear, hear). Mr. Rouw seconded, and the motion was car- ried. The htyor then said that the cheque had been handed over to him on condition that the money shoful he distributed during the present season. He also explained that this was in ad. dition to the £ 17 already in hand. REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNOR OF RUTHIN GRAMMAR SCHOOL. Oa the motion of Mr. Iouw, seconded by Mr. William Williams, Mr. T. P. Roberts was unanimously re-elected a Representative Go- ve nor of the Ruthin Grammar School. Mr. T. P. Roberts having thanked the Coun- cil for the honour conferred upon him, said the school improved daily there were more scho- lars, and better reports (hear, hear). The school went on capitally, and it was an honour for Rathin to possess such a school. Mr. Rouw Hear, hear. THE MAIN ROADS QUESTION. AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY COUNCIL. The Mayor said that the difficulty between theui and the County Council had at last come I to a satisfactory conclusion, because the whole of the Corporation's claim for the year ending March last had been passed for payment by the I Scanty CouRcil, and also the condition under which they had accepted an arrangement for the next three yiars. ";The X300 would be paid early this month, and one-half of the amount due for the current year would also be paid. He thought they had reason to congratulate themselves on this result. On the motion of the Mayor it was decided to accept the agreement, and to instruct the Town Clerk to affix the seal of the Council thereto. THE ABOLITION OF TOLLS. MR. BYFORD'S MOTION. ANIMATED DISCUSSION. The Mayor said that the next matter on the agenda was a notice of motion by Mr. Byford to abolish the tolls ftn horses, cattie, sheep, and Ptr Byford said th\t, before moving his re- solution, he would ask the Town Clerk to read the resolution passed by the Council with ) reference to this matter five or six years ago. Mr. John Roberts asked whether Mr. Bv- forn, having entered into a contract for the tolls within the Borough was in order, seeing that he was directly pecuniarily interested in the question before the Council—whether he had a right to move this resolution, unless he wished to do so at the risk of incurring a penalty of £ 50 ? Mr. Byford said he would risk f50 or jEaOO for the matter of that, and this was not a ques- tion where quibbles should arise, or personal remarks be made. He had declined to enter into a contract with the Corporation in fact, the question was never entered into at the last Council meeting, and he should like to know whether the fact that he was a party to the compromise of jE5 arrived at in the previous meeting, was what could be considered entering into a contract with the ratepayers of the town. He was not going to be gagged Mr. John Roberts said he had asked for the ruling of the Mayor on the matter. The Mayor said that, according to the Act, a member of the Council should not vote, or take part in any discussion, in which he was directly, or indirectly, by himself, or by his "partner, pecuniarily interested. There were exceptions to that rule, but so far as he could see, Mr. Byford's case did not come under any one of those exceptions. Personally, he felt very loth to rule a discussion of that kind oat of order upon a technical point, and he should much prefer, if it was possible, to let Mr. Byford go on with his motion, but at his own risk, of course and so far as the Act of Parliament itself went, it might probably be left there, but the question came under a sche- dule of the Act of Parliament, and any pro- ceeding which was contrary to the wording of that schedule became illegal, and although much against his will, be was bound to see whether the proceedings in connection with Mr. Byford's motion were, under this schedule, legal or otherwise. He could not help, from his own reading of the schedule, to come to the decision that a proposal made by a member of the Council who was directly or indirectly concerned in the abolition of tne tolls, was ir- regular, and, therefore, could not be allowed. He should like, personally, to have the matter thrashed out, and the best way for Mr. Byford would be to ask some other member, not di- rectly or indirectly interested, to make the proposal, and to give notice to that effect. He ought to remind the Council that a resolution was passed to abolish the tolls, but never put in force, it being felt at the time that they were really moving in the dark, and that it was a question whether it could be carried out under the Charter of the Borough. Several letters passed between the Town Clerk and the Local Government Board. The Board wanted to see the Charter, but no Charter could be found and although careful search had been made, it had not been found up to the present day. However, the final answer of the Local Govern- ment Board was, that if the Corporation had power under the Charter, they could use it, without asking them for permission. That was the reason the resolution was not carried out, { but he thought that they should know what ( I their powers-Vere, and should forthwith apply ) to the Record Office for a, copy of the Charter in order to know what their powers were in respect of the tolls (hear, hear). His Worship then read the resolution re- ferred to, dated 20th of December, 1889. Mr. Rouw said he had great pleasure in sup- porting the Mayor's suggestion, viz., that the subject be postponed until they had found the original Charter, or secured a copy of it. Mr. T. H. Roberts asked what per year they took in tolls? The Mayor replied that last year they took from horses £17 14s. 9d.; cattle, £24 lis- 2d.; sheep, f,3 18s.; pigs, f,22 2s. 4d.; fowls, X29 10s. id.; butter, £ 16 9s. 9d.; and, with the amounts taken from the standings, the total srm was 9130 5s. 5d. Mr. Byford said he was quite willing to with- draw his motion until the Charter was secured, but if the Council meant to say that he was di- rectiy interested in the matter, or had a per- sonal motive to serve in bringing it forward, then he could only say that that was not the case and if Mr. Roberts' mind would be re- lieved by his (Mr. Byford) paying the £ 5 al- ready referred to, he was quite willing to do so irrespective of any other matter. He wanted to do what he considered best for the interest of the town and neighbourhood. The Mayor Since there is a doubt in the matter, why not postpone it until a copy of the Charter is received from the Record Office? Mr. Byford Provided that an opportunity be given of bringing this matter forward and have it thoroughly discussed before we make our next rate, I shall be quite willing to do as suggested. Mr. Rouw To relieve Mr. Byford's mind, I beg to give notice that I shall bring the matter before the next meeting of the Council. Mr. Byford said that if a public meeting of the ratepayers was held to consider the ques- tion, he would be quite willing to abide by its decision. The Mayor's suggestion was then agreed to, and the discussion dropped. THE CORPORATION WORKMEN. Mr. William Williams proposed that the Cor- poration men be supplied with waterproof caps, overalls, and hats. Mr. Rouw seconded, but it was ultimately decided to instruct the Surveyor to obtain specimens, and report. EDUCATION AND THE LOCAL SCHOOLS. It was arranged to adjourn the meeting to the 5th inst., when a conference would take place between it and Mr. Selby Bigge, repre- sentative of the Charity Commissioners, with reference to Ruthin Grammar School, and the establishment of an Intermediate School in the town. MR. JUSTICE GRANTHAM AND THE MAYOR AND CORPORATION. WHO WAS TIIE 'Buh;Y-BODY?' INTERESTING CORRESPONDENCE. The Mayor then proceeded to call attention to the remarks made by Mr. Justice Grantham in his charge to the Grand Jury at the last Assizes. He said that since they last met, they had, as a body, become notorious—their fame had spread abroad all over the world. Of course, they all knew the principal facts of the matter he was referring to but, at the same time, inasmuch as reflections had been cast- upon them as a body, it was his duty from that chair to call the special attention of the Coun- cil to the matter, and to state the facts offici- ally and directly. Remarks had been made by the Judge at the last Assizes, referring very pointedly to the Mayor and Corporation of Ruthin. He would not read the whole of his Lordship's remarks, as a few sentences would be quite sufficient. His Worship then"read the Judge's remarks bearing upon the matter, which have already appeared in our columns. Proceeding, the Mayor said he happened to be in Court at the time, and was astounded to hear his Lordship's remarks. They came upon him very suddenly, and with very great sur- prise. He, of course, was precluded from offer- ing an explanation in Court, and thought that the best course to adopt was to address the Judge by letter on the subject, and a letter was sent him. (This letter was also published in our last issue). He (the Mayor) send the letter to his Lordship on that particular day, and re- ceived the following reply:- JUDGE'S LODGINGS, RUTHIN, Monday. Sir-I am requested by Mr. Justice Gran- tham to acknowledge the receipt of your letttr. He is sorry that any misunderstanding should have arisen-but the reason is this:—When he was at Beaumaris he received a request to post- pone the Assize services from Saturday to Sun- day morning, so that the Mayor and Corpora- tion might attend, and naturally supposed that such a request was made with authority, and that there must have been some reason for its not being carried out. Mr. Justice Grantham quite accepts the Mayor's statement that no personal discourtesy was intended. Yours obediently, R. F. ROBKETSOS, Marshall.' The Mayfr, continuing, said it was not a matter of going to church or not. If the re- quest had come in a regular way, and placed before the Corporation at their regular meet ing and had it considered, whatever their deci- sion might have been on that point, he had no doubt but that they would have abided by it, and would not have minded at all what obser- vations were made by any Judge, because he believed they would consider themselves quite as capable of judging in the matter of going to church, or not going to church, as any Judge in the land (hear, hear). But that was act the question. The Judge had been led to believe that the Corporation of Ruthin were arranging to accompany him to church, and was requested to change the Assize services from Saturday to Sunday for that purpose, and that was the point that they, as a Corporation, had reason to complain of. This request ought not to have been made unless authority had been given for it in some way. The history of the matter was as follows :—A request came to him from a member of the Council, but he would not read the letter unless they so wished Mr. T. J. Rouw As I wrote the letter you refer to, I think it should be read, sir. The Mayor: Very well. This is the letter ST. PETER'S SQUARE, RUTHIN, North Wales, January 20th, 1897. Dear Mr. Mayor—As you, no doubt, are aware, Her Majesty's Judge of Assize will at- tend St. Peter's Church in state on Sunday next. Some of us in the town have thought that this might be a fitting occasion to pass a compliment to the High Sheriff by attending him to church. I feel confident that the towns- people will give you every support, as no per- son in the neighbourhood is held in higher esteem than Mr. E. 0, V. Lloyd. He gives his support to every good object in the town of Ruthin, and takes the greatest interest in its welfare. It is so seldom that the opportunity is given us to show our appreciation of a per- son like our present High Sheriff, that I trust you will be able to arrange for the Corporation to attend upon the present occasion. I am, yours faithfully, THOEDORE J. Rouw. His Worship, The Mayor of Ruthin. Mr. R. P. Davies When did you receive this letter, Mr. Mayor ? The Mayor replied it was on the Wednesday, and said it was too late then to call a legal meeting of the Council. Under the circum stances, he thought the best thing for him was to consult individual members of the Council, and see whether it would be any use for him to invite the Council to meet, with any hope of having a majority, or as a whole, to con- sider the question. He immediately saw several members of the Council, and he found from everyone he consulted, that there was really no necessity for what had been suggested. Several reasons were given for not entertaining the suggestion, but not one was given showing the slightest disrespect to the Church of En- gland, or to the High Sheriff-in fact, every member he consulted spoke very highly of the High Sheriff, and in favour of doing something to show their respect towards him (hear, hear). However, they did not consider there was any old custom to be carried out, and that to enter- tain the suggestion of meeting his Lordship at Church would be establishing an awkward pre- cedent. and they certainly did not think it wise to set up such a precedent in such a hur- ried inanner, especially as it was intended to move with a view of complimenting the High Sheriff in another way. Further, he understood it would hardly be of any use for him to invite the Corporation to appear on Sunday. On Sa- turday morning, however, he went out and en- deavoured to find a few more members, and ha found that they were of the same opinion. He then replied toMr. Rouw'sletterto the effect that he was satisfied it was not necessary for the Cor- poration to attend church, and that probably not more than half of the members would at- tend. He felt it his duty, in order to place this matter clearly before the Council, to explain how it had become to be mentioned by the Judge. No authority to make any statement in this matter was given by him, or through the Town Clerk, or in any other way. It was therefore evident, that someone had moved in the matter, and that the Judge had some reason for making the change in the services, and also making the remarks which had just been read: Under the circumstances, his Lord- ship's remarks were very natural. He had com- niutiicated, with the Under Sheriff in the matter, and had obtained a copy of the correspondence. The first was a telegram received by the Under Sheriff on the Wednesday in the fallowing terms: Puthiii, 20th January, 1897. Reply Paid.—To Parry Jones, Denbigh. Is Judge attending church in state on Sunday? Rouw.' The Mayor: The reply to that is as follows:— To Rouw, Ruthin.—Don't know Judge's movements until arrival. UNDER SHERIFF.' The Mayor: Then the Under Sheriff sends a letter to the Clerk of Assize, which runs thus Denbigh, 20th January, 1897. [Assizes]. Dear Sir-I shall be much obliged if you can inform me what time the Judge will arrive in Ruthin on Saturday, and whether he will go to church that day or on Sitndoy ? Enquiries have been made as to the church services. Thanking you in anticipation. I remain, yours, &c., J. PARRY JONES, Acting Under Sheriff. H. Crompton, Esq., Clerk of Assize, Beaumaris. [Private]. P.S.—Since writing I have been informed that if the Judge goes to church on Sunday, the Town Council, Volunteers, &c., will accom- pany him. J. P. J. The Mayor Then there is still another tele- gram: Denbigh, 22nd January, 1897. To the Clerk of Assize, Beaumaris.—Please wire me Castle Hotel, Ruthin, this afternoon Judge's movement to-morrow. UNDER SHERIFF.' The Mayor The reply to that is this :— Beaumaris, 22nd January, 1897. 'Under Sheriff, Castle Hotel, Ruthin, Judge arrives 4 17. Church Sunday morn- ing. CROMPTON.' The Mayor Two other letters had passed on the subject, and are as follows :— 'Beaumaris, 22nd January, 1897. Dear Sir—The Judge will arrive at Ruthin by the train due at Ruthin 4-17 to-morrow (Saturday). He will go to church on Sunday morning. Commission will be opened on Mon- day morning at the sitting of the Court. Yours very truly, HENRY CROMPTON. J. P. Jones, Esq., Under Sheriff.' 29tli January, 1897. To W. Lloyd, Esq., Town Clerk, Ruthin. Dear Sir-In reply to your letter of yester- day's date, I added a Postscript to my letter on he 20th inst., addressed to Mr. Crompton, in consequence of a rumour which was current here that the Mayor, &c., would accompany the Judge to church if he went on the Sunday, you will observe that such postscript is marked private. Yours faithfully, J. PARRY JONBS. Under Sheriff.' The Mayor, continuing, said that in the post* script to his letter, the Under Sheriff stated that he had been informed that the Corporation would accompany the Judge to church, if he changed the day of the service from Saturday to Sunday. More than that he (the Mayor) was unable to say as to who was the informant; but the Under Sheriff, in a further letter, stated a rumour was current that he Mayor and Corporation would attend the Judge. All he had to say on this was that, if the Under Sheriff acted upon a mere rumour, he had done so on a very shadowy foundation (hear, hear). On the other hand, if he was informed, his in. formant must, to say the least, acted very in- discreetly and irregular, and had no authority for giving the information, whoever he might have been. He (the Mayor) had no informa- tion on bhe subject; but he might say, the least thing that could have been done before chang- ing the day of the services from Saturday to Sunday, was to communicate, with the Mayor or the Town Clerk, and to see whether they had decided to accompany the Judge to church or not. The Corporation, the Town Clerk, and the Mayor, were certainly not to be blamed in the matter. Mr. T. J. Roberts: I think it should be as. certained who gave this information. The Mayor I do not know how that can be done. Mr, John Roberts It would be highly satis- factory if we could, because if it turns out it was a member of this Council, I do not think he is worthy of a seat in the Council (hear, hear). Mr. T. J. Rouw: 'As I am the person that sent the telegram, I think, Sir, I should make an explanation Mr. Edward Roberts asked whether Mr. Rouw sent the telegram as a Town Councillor, or Churchwarden ? Mr. Rouw: I do not intend to tell you, Sir and you have no business to ask such a ques- tion Mr. Edward Roberts: Is he speaking here now as a Churchwarden or Councillor? (laugh. ter). Mr. Rouw (warmly): I am speaking here now as I always do, Sir-as a Councillor. I may be an irresponsible person, Sir, as stigmatised by you (the Mayor) The Mayor When ? Mr. Rouw In your letter to the Judge The Mayor: Pardon me, Sir. What I stated in my letter to the Judge was this The only eommunication I received on the subject was a letter received from a member of the Town Council written upon his own responsibility.' That does not say you are an irresponsible person (hear, hear). It states that you wrote on your own responsibility, and is that not so? Mr. Rouw. then apologised to the Mayor for his mistake, and said that the telegram already referred to was the only communication he sent to the Under Sheriff on the subject. Mr. R. P. Davies said there had been a mis- take somewhere jand he was sure there was no reflection on the Mayor of any kind. He read his Worship's letter, and considered it very satisfactory. He thought they had better leave the matter now, as they'knew the whole cir- cumstances. Mr. T. J. Roberts No, we do not know all the circumstances. The Mayor; We are entirely In the dark, 7 and I hope nobody will be suspecfe-J icntil know. Mr. Byford There is a strong feeling at this end of the table that I am mixed up with it (laughter). The matter titen dropped. COMPLIMENTING THE HIGH SHERIFF. The Mayor moved that steps be forthwith taken to present the High Sheriff (Mr. E. O. V. Lloyd) with a congratulation address, on his retirement from the office of High Sheriff for the County. Mr. Edward Roberts seconded. Mr. Rouw wanted to know whether there was any precedent for presenting the High Sheriff with an address? He understood that Col. West, Mr. Jesse, and others who had held this office, had not been the recipients of such addresses, and he objected to the proposed pre- sentation to Mr. E. O. V. Lloyd, as it only added insult to injury. The motion was then carried, the cost of the address not to exceed 10 guineas. Mr. Rouw abstained from voting.