Cuddio Rhestr Erthyglau

3 erthygl ar y dudalen hon

DENBIGHSHIRE1 COUNTY COUNCIL.i

Newyddion
Dyfynnu
Rhannu

DENBIGHSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL. THE LLANRWST COURT-HOUSE. THE ASYLUM DRAINAGE. FARMERS AND THE LIGHTING BYELAWS. The quarterly meeting of the Denbighshire County Council was held at the County Build- ings, Wrexham, on Friday. Mr. J. Watkin Lumley piesided, and there were also present: —Sir W. Williams Wynne, Col. Mainwaring, Sir R. E. Egerton, Col. S. Gregson Ellis, Messrs. James Coward, W. G. Dodd, E. Hooson, Christ- mas Jones, Steele L. Roberts, Gomer Roberts, Boaz Jones, John Jones (Llanrhaiadr), John Jones (Llandyrnog), William Jones, Evan Ro- berts, Bennett Jones, W. E. Samuel, A. O. Evans, R. F. Graesar, Howel Gee, John Hughes, Dr. David Lloyd, O. Isgoed Jones, Thomas Morris (Llanymynech), A. Foulkes, the Rev. John Ellis, W. Howelfryn Jones, John Roberts (Plas Heaton Farm), R. J. Powell, R. Myddleton Biddulph, Benjamin Harrison, John Allen, John Harrop, Joseph Roberts, J. S. Boydell, E. Lloyd Jones, D. Roberts, H. Hughes (Llys Dinmael), Thomas Morris (Llan- silin), and J. W. Evans. The following officials were also present The Deputy Clerk (Mr. John Roberts), the County Surveyor (Col. Lloyd Williams), the District Surveyors (Messrs. R. B. Adams and Ellis W. Jones), the County Accountant (Mr. R. Humphreys Roberts) the Inspectors of Weights and Measures (Messrs. J. Clarke Jones and Noah Price), the County Treasurer (Major Conran), and the Chief Constable (Major Lead- better). APOLOGIES. Letters of apology were received from Cap- tain Griffith-Boscawen, Sir R. A. Cunlifte, F. E. Rooper, J. H. Darby, Henry Dennis, J. T. Millward, and Edwin Bellis. THE LATE CLERK. The Chairman said that, before proceeding with the business of the Council, he had, with very much regret, to officially announce the death of the late Clerk, Mr. Adams, and to submit for adoption the following resolution in connection therewith:—'That this Council places on record its deep regret at the death of Mr. Llewelyn Adams, the late Clerk of the Peace, and expresses its appreciation of the valuable services and the esteem and respect in which he was held by this Council, and also, that a vote of condolence be forwarded to the members of the family in their bereavement.' Mr. Adams, as they were all aware, had been their clerk since the County Council came into existence ten years ago, and upon him mainly had devolved the onerous duty of putting the Council on the proper line to carry out the Local Government Act. On all occasions, he gave every assistance possible-legal and other- wise-to the members of the Council in the discharge of their duties. Mr. Adams was ap- pointed by the Lord Lieutenant. That was 15 years ago-five years previous to the establish- ment of the County Council. At present, the appointment was vested in the Standing Joint Committee, and that Committee had al- ready taken the preliminary steps in the direc- tion of making an appointment to fill the va cancy. They had appointed a Deputy Clerk of the Peace-who was acting that day-in the person of Mr. John Roberts, and he (the Chair- man) thought the Council should congratulate Mr. Roberts upon the selection made by the Standing J oint Committee (hear, hear). Mr. Hooson, in seconding the motion, said he was sure the members of the County Council would miss Mr. Adams very much. He was always courteous, and, personally, he (Mr. Hooson) deeply regretted his loss. The motion was carried unanimously. THE FARMERS AND THE LIGHTING BYELAWS. AGRICULTURAL CARTS TO BE EXEMPTED. Mr. John Jones, Plasynllan, Llandyrnog, moved, in accordance with notice previously given, that 'byelaw No. 7 with regard to lights on vehieles be amended by eliminating there- from the following words at the end thereof, viz., within a distance of half-a-mile of the homestead of the owner thereof.' Mr. Jones went on to say that his proposal meant that carts used solely for agricultural purposes should be exempted altogether from the opera- tions of the Act. It was a wellknown fact that many farmers had fields at a distance of more than half a-mile from their homestead, and it was ridiculous that farmers under such cir- stances should be compelled to carry lights on their carts. He proposed the motion with every confidence that the Council would agree to it. Mr. David Roberts, Coed 12,1, seconded. Col. Saxon Ellis did not see why a vehicle should be exempted from carrying a light sim ply because it was the property of a farmer (hear, hear). Moreover, this byelaw had been adopted by other adjoining counties, and if all these counties were of opinion that it was to the safety of the public that one kind of vehicle should carry lights, he failed to see why the public safety should be endangered by an agri. cultural cart. lfor the protecrion of the tra- velling public he thought the byelaw should stand as it was at present. Mr. H. Venables Kyrice said he wished to endorse the remarks made by Col. Ellis. His experience was that farmers' carts were the worst offenders of any (Oh, oh, and No, no). They were always on the wrong side of the road (laughter). Mr. Borthwick said he rose to contradict the statement made by the lasc speaker. He had had 30 years of agricultural experience, and could only describe this new byelaw as a vexa tious one, and one that militated against an in- dustry which they should all encourage (hear, hear). Agricultural carts were wholly different to all other vehicles. They did not travel at an excessive pace, and the horses attached to it were generally led and not driven. It was un- reasonable that a man, after going a distance from his home and overtaken by darkness, should be taken up by the police when quietly leading his horse, and then fined 10s and costs. Sir Watkin Williams Wynn protested against altering a byelaw before it had been in opera- tion for 12 months at least. This byelaw had not yet turned out to be a failure, and, there- fore, it should not now be tampered with. Be- sides, all farmers in the county had already purchased lamps, and attached them to their carts; and it was, therefore, late in the day to make any alteration in the law. He failed to see why an agricultural cart should be treated differently to a bic., cle. Col. Mainwaring said be was going to vote for Mr. Jones' resolution. It was most absurd that farmers should be compelled to place a lighted lamp an their carts, especially on a beautiful moonlight night (hear, hear). Mr. John Roberts said* there was a very strong reason why the motion proposed by Mr. Jones should be carried. Since the passing of the byelaw as it now stood, there had been a County Council election, and very strong feel- ing had been shown in the Denbigh district on the matter. It was a very strange coincidence that every one of the defeated candidates in the last County Council election voted for this byelaw (Oh. oh, and No, no). Sir Watkin I voted for it, and I was not defeated. Mr. John Roberts But you do not represent our part of the county. Sir Watkin I am here as a representative of the county of Denbigh, sir. Mr. Kyrke I voted for it, and I was not de- feated. Mr. Saxon Ellis: And I voted for it, and was not defeated (laughter). Mr. John Roberts said that his point had been misunderstood. Everyone of the defeated can- didates had voted in favour of the byelaw, but he did Dot think there was a case of ane man who voted against the byelaw being defeated. That, in his opinion, was a very strong reason for altering the byelaw. Mr. Boydell and Mr. Steele L. Roberts spoke against any alteration. Mr. Foulkes said he represented an agricul tural district, and voted for the byelaw, but was not defeated. The Council ought to be glad of the improvement wrought in conse- quence of the passing of this byelaw. Mr. Thomas Morris (Llansilin) spoke in favour of the motion. The Chief Constable, having received the per- mission of the Chairman to speak, expressed a hope that the Council would hesitate before rescinding this byelaw. As the officer respon- sible for carrying out the law, farmers might take an assurance from him that it would in no way be carried out in an aggressive maimer. In no case would a farmer be prosecuted with- out good reason. A resolution, passed by the Llangollen Dis- trict Council in favour of exempting farmers' carts travelling not more than four miles from their homestead, was read. There was also a petition, signed by 139 persons-all farmers from the district represented by Mr. David Roberts—in favour of Mr. John Jones' motion. The Council then divided, when 24 voted for the motion, and 20 against. The announcement of the figures was received with loud applause. It was explained that the byelaw would be in force for the present, as it would be necessary to obtain the sanction of the Home Secretary to the alteration.. LLANRWST CODRT HOUSE. Mr. Simon Jones moved and Mr. Foulkes, seconded, the adoption of the report of a com- mittee of the Council upon the question of erecting a Court House at Llanrwst. The re- port recommended that in order to prevent any further delay and without prejudice to the merits of the question of the powers of the county or the Standing Joint Committee respectively, that the tender of Mr. Hugh Hughes, builder and contractor-9709 be accepted, and the work proceeded with. The Chairman said that before putting the matter to a vote, he wished to draw attention to the recommendation of the Finance Com- mittee with reference to this matter, viz., that the County Council be recommended to pro- vide the necessary amount JE713 10s., bv a way of loan from the Public Works Loan Board at 2| per cent. per annum under the provisions of the Publie Work Loan Act of 1897. That would be done and the work proceeded with as soon as the money was obtained. The motion was carried. SHEEP SCAB. Mr. W. E. Samuel having moved, and Mr. Benson seconded, the adoption Sof the Main Roads Committee report for the Wrexham district which amongst other items contained the following recommendation with reference to sheep scab That the regulations made on the lines sug- gested at the Conference before referred to be, and the same are hereby approved of and adopted, subject to the other Counties named in the schedule, viz.:—Chester, Flint, Hereford, Montgomery, Radnor, and Salop adopting the said regulations.' Mr. John Roberts, PlasHeaton Farm pointed out that this recommendation was made sub- ject to the approval of the other counties named in the schedule, and wished to know .whether these counties had adopted the sime. Mr. Samuel Yes, I think they have adopted it. Mr. John Roberts then went on to aay that according to his information, they had not adopted it, and complained of the action of the Wrexham Committee in leaving out all refer encejto the Denbigh end of the County on this matter. The Chairman said that the point raised by Mr, Roberts was a very important one, and that when matters of this kind were brought before a Committee having executive powers, it should confer with the Committee at the other end of the County before coming to any decision. This matter with reference to the sheep scab was still under consideration in the Denbigh District, and a suggestion had been made to refer fche matter to a Joint Meeting of the two committees in order to agree upon joint action. He would suggest that this part of the report should be referred back to the Main Roads Committee of the Wrexham district, with a view of holding a joint conference on the subject. Mr. Samuel said no doubt his committee would be willing to agree to that course. Sir Watkin Williams Wynn asked whether it would not be better to appoint a Joint Com, mittee to consider the matter at once. Mr. Boydell pointed out that a conference had been held at Shrewsbury on the subject, and that no member from the western division of the County attended. The Council agreed to the suggestion of the Chairman, and it is understood that the two committees will be called together at an early date to consider the subject. THE LOCOMOTIVES ACT, 1898. It was also recommended in the report of the Wrexham Main Roads Committee that a Joint Committee representing both ends of the County he appointed for the purpose of considering the Locomotives Act which came into operation on the 1st of January this year, and to report thereon to the County Council. The report of the Committee having been adopted the following members were appointed on the above Committee. For the western division—Messrs. John Roberts, Plas Heaton Farm: A. Foulkes, J. W. Lumley, J. Howel Gee, Col. Mainwaring, and Col. Saxon Ellis. For the eastern division— Messrs. W. E. Samuel, J. Harrop, J. W. Evans, J. S. Boydell, Christmas Jones, and C. K. Benson. THE DENBIGH DISTRICT MAIN ROAD COMMITTEES REPORT. THE DENBIGH STEAM ROLLER AND ITS WORK. Mr. John Roberts, Plas Heaton Farm, moved the adoption of the report of the Denbigh Main Roads Committee. Mr. Boaz Jones seconded. Cot. Saxon Ellis said he noticed from the re- port of Mr. R. B. Adams, the district surveyor that he considered the main roads throughout his district to be in a fair state of repair when the time of the year was taken into considera- tion. He wished to know from the surveyor whether he was satisfied with the way the Denbigh Main Roads were being treated by the steam roller. On the previous Saturday when the roads were very wet and soft, he met the steam roller on Ruthin road what it was doing he did not know, unless they were taking it out for an airing (laughter}. They had only one water barrel attached to it, and he thought tha"; the water was carried by a tin bucket. He only noticed very smal, l plots of macadam having been put down. The Surveyor (Mr. R. B. Adams) said that in his report he was only referring to roads under his own immediate supervision and not those in the Urban districts. Col. Saxon Ellis: May I ask you are you satisfied with the main roads in the borough of Denbigh generally ? Mr. Adams: What has been done on the Ruthin road is not at all satisfactory. Col. Ellis said he drew attention to this mat- ter because it was a matter that should be watched. The Chairman The surveyor will watch it no aoubt. COL. HUGHES, YSTRAD, AND HIS LOCOMOTIVE. AN ALLEGED BREACH OF THE LAW. The Chairman pointed out that the report of the main roads committee contained a recom- mendation to the following eft'ect-' that the County Council be recommended to direct the district surveyor to summon Col. Hughes, of Ystrad, for using his locomotive tor other than agricultural purposes in contravention of the County Council byelaws. A letter had been received with reference to this matter from Col. Hughes, which 'le would ask the clerk to read. The Clerk then read the letter referred to in which Col. Hughes stated that he had been informed by Mr. Humphreys Roberts at Den bigh station, that a summons was to be taken out against him at the instance of the Main Roads Committee for using his traction engine without a license. He had never used the en. gine for any work except, for agricultural pur- poses, viz., the dragging and ploughing of land. It was true that on one occasion they had lent the engine to Messrs. Salisbury and Lloyd, Timber Merchants, of Denbigh, when they were in trouble, but he had not and did not lexpect payment. He had lent it to a neighbour in what was considered to be a case of emergency. The Chairman: We can scarcely take notice of a letter of this kind. In one way, it is an admission of the offence, and I think that the letter might very well be used as evidence in the place where the prosecution will be heard. Col. Saxon Ellis: Have we to pay the costs of the prosecution ? The Chairman: Yes, unless we get a convic- tion. Col. Ellis then proposed, that the recommen- dation of the committee be eliminated from the report. Mr. Hooson: I should like to hear the reason for that proposal; whoever transgresses the law relating to this matter, all should be treated alike, and I don't see why a different treat- ment should be made out in this case. Sir Watkyn Williams Wynn said that a law suit in reference to a traction engine some years ago cost the Council JE120. He did not say that a prosecution in the present case would cost that amount, but the Council should be careful. This was the first he had heard of the matter, but from the letter read he felt doubt- ful whether the justices would convict. The engine had merely been lent to help other people out of a hole, and it would be a mistake in his opinion to take proceedings in such a case. Mr. Hooson: I take it that the Committee who sat upon this matter, and made this recorn mendation have taken all the circumstances of the case under their consideration. The Chairman Oh, yes. Mr. Borthwick then seconded Col. Ellis's motion In reply to Sir Watkin, the Chairman said that the breach of the bye-law in this case was for using a traction engine withont a license for other than agricultural purposes. It had been used for hauling heavy boilers from the Station to the Asylum. Col. Ellis asked whether it was a fact that the boilers had stuck on the road, and that Col. Hughes' engine had been called in to assist in getting them out. Several members here shouted, No, no. The Chairman The only explanation given so far is this-Col. Hughes' traction engine was used to remove, boilers, and Col. Hughes has no license. Sir Robert Egerton: Has Col. Hughes re- ceived any remuneration ? The Chairman: We know nothing about that. In his letter he says no. Col. Mainwaring said the explanation now given by Col. Hughes was very different to the one they had before them in the Main Roads Committee. Having heard that explanation, he thought that proceedings in this case should not be taken. The motion was then put to the meeting, when 27 voted for it, and the recommendation was therefore eliminated from the report. ELECTRIC MAINS AT LLANRWST. A petition signed by the principal tradesmen in Station road and Market place, Llanrwst was read, requesting the Council to give per- mission for the laying of electric mains under- ground, in the main roads within the town of Llanrwst. The Chairman pointed out that a similar application from Mr. Peers, o! Manchester, had been before the Main Roads Committee, but a motion in favour of granting permission had been defeated by 6 to 5. Mr. Isgoed Jones said he should like to know as represeutative of the district, the grounds for refusing the application in the committee. Mr. John Roberts (chairman of the com- mittee) said there was no communication at all on the subject from the Llanrwst District Council. There was a letter from Mr. Peers, but nobody seemed to know him. That was the only reason for the defeat of the applica- tion. Mr. Isgoed Jones: Thank you; I am satis- fied with the explaination. But I should like to point out to you gentlemen that Llanrwst is moving forward (' Oh dear' and loud laughter). You must give us credit for that, and I am going to move that this matter be referred back to the Main Roads Committee for further consideration. Mr. Hooson seconded. Mr. Dodd moved that permission be given. Col. Mainwaring seconded. On a division, the amendment was car- ried. THE PROPOSED BRIDGES AT PANDY, HENLLAN. The report of the Denbigh Main Roads Com- mittee contained the report of the County Sur veyor with reference to the plans, and specifica tions submitted by the Denbigh Town Council for the proposed new bridges over the streams at Pandy, Henllan. In this report, the county surveyor suggested several important altera- tions in the plans, &c., saying that he was of opinion that the Local Government Board, in case the money were borrowed, would not be satisfied with the character of the bridges pro- posed, or the weight it was intended they should carry. Mr. A. O. Evans a9ked what observations had been received from the Denbigh Town Council, and the St. Asaph (Denbigh) Rural District Council, on the county surveyor's re- port. The Clerk said that the report had not been forwarded to them, and could not, until it would, be adopted by the County Council. The subject then dropped, and the report of the Main Roads Committee was adopted. MR. R. B. ADAMS' SALARY. APPLICATION FOR AN INCREASE. Mr. R B. Adams, surveyor of roads for the Denbigh District had applied to the Main Roads Committee for the Western Division, for an ad- vance of £ 20 in his salary. Mr. Adams in his ap- plication, pointedout thatit was understood when he received the appointment in 1890, that both District Surveyors should be treated alike, that they were to receive the sanae amount of salary, that an additional 3 miles of road and two joint bridges had been added to the dis- trict since 1897, that the surveyor for the Eastern Division had been granted an increase of 9-25 per annum in October 1897, that the area he had to cover was very extensive, that there were no less than 139 county bridges and their approaches, and 26 joint bridges in his district. When the application came before the Main Roads Committee, it was referred on the motion of Mr. Lumley to the Finance Com- mittee with a recommendation that an advance of X20 be granted. The Finance Committee now reported that the matter had been con- sidered by them, and that it had been decided by 3 votes against 2 (the other members pre- sent not voting), that the increase be not granted. On consideration of the Finance Committee's report, Mr. A. O. Evan", moved, and Mr. Boaz Jones seconded that the subject be referred back to the Finance Committee for further considera- tion. Sir Watkin pointed out that when this matter came before the Finance Committee that no one, with the exception of the chair- man, seemed to know anything about it, and he (Mr. Lumley) didn't say very much either for or against it. The matter had not indeed been thoroughly discussed there, and for a while, no one seconded the motion in favour of an increase. The Chairman said Sir Watkin's statement was perfectly correct. Mr. Samuel thought this matter should stand on its merit, that is, that the surveyor should make his application without contrasting in any way his own district with that of Wrexham. He did not wish to oppose the increase, if the committee were unanimous. Sir R. E. Egerton, and Mr. Hooson said they should like Mr. Adams to make his application on his own merits. Mr. Isgoed Jones said that but few members from East Denbighshire knew the value of Mr. Adams. He was thoroughly worthy of the little increase he asked for (hear, hear). But should his application be granted now, the Council should have a thorough understanding with both surveyors that there should be no incessant application of a similar nature in future. The amendment proposed by Mr. A. O. Evans was then agreed to by a large majority, and the Finance Committee's report was adopted. THE DISPUTE BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND THE STANDING JOINT COMMITTEE BE COUNTY BUILDINGS. A short discussion took place with reference to the draft case to be submitted to the High Court under the provisions of section 29 of the Local Government Act 1888, as settled by the Standing Joint Committee. Sir Robert Egerton proposed that the case be agreed to as drafted. Mr. Saxon Eliis seconded. Mr. Gomer Roberts proposed as an amend- ment that the case be referred to the following committee, representing the County Council —Messrs. J. T. Millward, Christmas Jones, Boaz Jones, David Jones, Howel Gee, John Harrop, William Ellis, Steele L. Roberts, R. F. Powell, and W. E. Samuel, with the addition of Captain Griffith Boscawen, and Mr. Lumley as chairmen of the Standing Joint Committee and County Council respectively. This matter as it now stood, had not been before the County Council, and so far, the draft case had only been considered by the Standing Joint Committee. The gentlemen he had nominated on the com- mittee were with the exception of the two latter, members of the County Council, and not of the Standing Joint Committee. Mr. W. Howelfryn Jones seconded. On a division, 34 voted in favour of the amendment, and 6 against. The amendment was then pnt as a substantive motion, and declared carried. DENBIGH TOWN COUNCIL AND THE ASYLUM SEWERAGE SCHEME. The next business on the agenda was to con- sider a letter from the Local Government Board, enclosing copy of a letter which the Board had received from the Town Council of Denbigh as to the drainage of the North Wales Counties Lunatic Asylum, forwarded by the Local Government Board for the observations of the County- Council thereon. The Chairman, observing several members proceeding to leave the room, said this was a very important matter, and hoped they would remain to discuss it. The Clerk then read the following letter sent to the Local Government Board by the Town Clerk of Denbigh:— Town Clerk's Office Denbigh, 28th October, 1898. SIR, Adverting to your letter of the 18th inst, enclosing copy of one which your Board has received from the visiting committee of the North Wales Counties Lunatic Asylum, I am directed by the Town Council of this Borough to reply thereto as follows. The Council observe that your Board has been furnished with a copy of the correspondence which has passed between the Council and Asylum Com- mittee with reference to the sewerage of the Asylum, and they desire me to point out that they have not declined to construct or provide a sewer for the Asylum, but are of opinion that the matter is such an important one to the ratepayers of this borough they they con- sider they are not justified in providing such sewer for the five counties of North Wales (the expense of which will be very considerable) without a compulsory order from your Board. The facts submitted by the Asylum Committee are not disputed, but the Council desire me to place a few more before your Board, and in order to better understand them, I am for- warding by this post a tracing from the ordnance survey plans. Denbigh is a Municpal town with a population of about 5,000, and its sewage is conveyed in pipes as shown in red ink on the plan to a farm (I A') about a mile dis- tant from the town. About half a mile beyond the town, and in the opposite direction to the sewage outfall is the asylum, which provides for five counties in North Wales, and extensive alterations and additions are now being carried out. The Asylum Committee have made pro- vision for their own gas and water supply, and the plans of the alterations and extensions of the premises were not submitted for the appro- val of the sanitary authority. The attention of your Board is especially called to the levels as shown in the plan, and to the fact that the asylum is situated 90 feet lower than the com mencement of the sewer at the point I C,' which entirely precludes the connection of the sewer at the point, even if the present sewer is large enough, which it is not, it being only six inches diameter, whereas the Asylum Committee require a 12 inch pipe at least. This being so, your Board will observe that if the asylum sewage is to be conveyed to the Town outfall, it will be necessary to lay a very long line of pipes in the direction D to E, and such pipes will be used solely for the Asylum sewage there being no houses en route,,or likely be. The Council also desire me to point out that the present system of drainage is barely able to cope with the Town sewage alone, so that if an additional 50,000 gallons a day is turned into the main sewer, it and the outfall tanks would be quite inadequate, and it would be necessary to lay another and larger main, and to find another outlet, in fact a completely new system would have to be provided. Further, the Council consider that the Asylum Com- mittee have ample land immediately surround- ing their buildings for the treatment of their sewage, and lands contiguous the owners and tenants whereof, the Council have no doubt, would be only too glad to take any surplus sew- age on to, and if it were so dealt with, the expense of the scheme would be very mater- ially reduced, and if borne proportionately by the five counties would be almost unappreciable The Council are advised that the Asylum Com- mittee in their recent application for sanction to borrow money, made provision, not only for the extensive alterations now being carried out and for the water supply, but for a new drain age scheme. I am further directed to submit to your Board that the Council deem it a great hardship that a small borough such as this is should be called upon to construct a sewer for an Asylum provided for five counties, and they consider that the expense should be borne proportionately by such five counties and not exclusively by this Borough. (Signed) J. Parry Jones, Town Clerk. Mr. W. E. Samuel: What is the rateable value of the Asylum, and what does it con- tribute for the benefit of the town of Den- bigh. The Chairman: The rateable value, or the assessment of the Borough is £ 20,831. The Asylum is rated at 91,714, or one twelfth of the whole assessment of the borough. Mr. Samuel: The Denbigh Town Council ought to make the drain then. The Chairman said he hoped the Council had uuderstood the question from the reading of the letter sent by the Town Council to the Local Government Board. This was a very important matter. The Asylum Committee had experienced considerable difficulty in getting the sanction of the Local Government Board to carry out what they wanted in con- nection wih this drainage scheme. At pre sent, the Board above had not given its sanc- tion for the loan necessary for the work. The Asylum Committee had deemed it necessary, upon the recommendation of their engineer, that the sewage of the Asylum should be taken clean away from the premises, and not to utilize it as a fertilizer upon their land. Pos- sibly, they might use some of it for that pur pose, but the committee had been advised that the best, and indeed the proper way of dealing with the sewage was to take it clean away. Acting on the recommendation of their engineer, and having obtained counsel's opin- ion favourable to their view of the case, the Asylum Committee took steps to call upon the corporation of Denbigh to make a sewer to take away the sewage of the Asylum Up to the present they haa failed to obtain from the Denbigh Corporation the necessary drainage system, and from the letter just read, it would be observed that they were making an appeal to the Local Government Board to assist, 'a poor corporation' as they called themselves- (laughter)—and to save them from the expense of making a proper drain, and asking that the County Councils of the five counties in union be compelled to provide funds for the under- taking, aod also to pay rates out of their own pockets to provide drains for everybody else in the borough of Denbigh (hear, hear). He hoped that the Council would strengthen the hands of the Asylum Committee by passing a resolution that day approving of the action and conduct of the committee in respect of the Asylum drainage scheme. Mr. Foulkes: Does the £1,714: represent the assessment of the Asylum buildings as they stand now, or when completed? The Chairman As they now stand. When the extension of the Asylum is completed, it is likely that the assessment will rise to consider- ably over 92,000. Mr. Foulkes: Is it not a fact that the land available for utilizing this sewerage is already exhausted ? The Chairman Quite so. Mr. Foulkes: fherefore we must have some new outlet. Had we not better refer it to a Joint Committee? The Chairman I hope we won't defer it by referring it to a committee. It is an urgent matter, and should be dealt with at once. Mr. W. E. Samuel Is there any estimate for this main drain ? We do not want to put a tremendous expense on the corporation of Den- bigh. The Chairman: The Asylum Committee have accepted a contract for drainage work up to the point where our own responsibility ends. The amount is £ 2,000. The expense of the sewer which you call upon the corporation to construct would be about £ 1,000. If the coun- ties are called to do it, and the cost apportioned between them, the County of Denbigh's share would be about £250.. Mr. Foulkes: I take it that the Town Coun- cil of Denbigh would considerably benefit if the cost does not exceed 91,000. The rates will be materially benefited. Mr. Christmas Jones 1 think we are entitled to discuss this question finally to day. After lieaiing the bitter cry of the poor corporation of Denbigh that the five counties should do the work, I still feel inclined to propose a resolution to this effect' Having taken into consideration the letter of the Local Govern- ment Board, and the Town Council of Den- bigh, that this Council entirely endorses the action of the Asylum Committee in calling upon the Town Council to fulfil its obligation under the Public Health Act, and also that the Council renew its application for a loan to carry out the necessary work.' Considering that the assessment will rise to over 92,000, I think the borough of Denbigh has very little to complain of, and I don't think that the sum of XI,000 mentioned by the chairman as the probable cost of the sewer, should be a bugbear to the Corporation of Denbigh. Mr. W. Pendennis seconded the motion. Mr. J. Howel Gee said he represented the unfortunate town of Denbigh, and wished to say that there were several reasons why they dici not take up the sewerage scheme with any great amount of enthusiasm, as the County Council expected them to do. In the first place, they would have to experience great difficulty in carrying out the work. The Chair- man had ventured an estimate of 91,000, but he questioned very much whether the scheme could be carried out for anything like so small a sum. It was, in the first place, a matter of utter impossibility to drain the Asylum into the present sewerage system of the town, for the reason that that system started from a higher level than where the Asylum was situated. The present system of drainage could not possibly be available, unless the Asylum sewerage were pumped at least a height of 100 feet. Then, if the sewerage was not to be carried along the main streets of Denbigh, it would have to be taken across pri- vate property, and this would entail a trem- endous amount of expense. They would have to start de novo, and dispose of this sewage the best way they could, if it were decided that they should undertake the work. If the landowners refused to meet them with regard to the land required, then an Act of Parliament would have to be requisitioned to compel them to do so, and to enable the Cor- poration to carry the sewer through their land whereas the Asylum Authorities had already a good deal of land in the neighbourhood upon which they could easily dispose of the sewage.. Taking everything into consideration, he thought the Asylum Authorities should pro- ceed in this matter in a reasonable way, viz. by disposing of the sewage in the way they had hitherto done. He might mention the fact that the Asylum Authorities already possessed their own gas works, and had also arranged to have their own water supply. The same Act of Parliament that gave them power to ask for a sewer from the Town Council, also gave them power to ask for their wa-er, but that they knew perfectly well could not be done. He did not desire to go into law oa the question; at the same time, it was very difficult for the cor- poration to take up the drainage of any institution or indeed any place which was out- side the scope of their bye-laws. Another thing, the corporation was not consulted as to the drainage of the Asylum in any way, nor could they stop the Asylum Authority building how, and where they liked But when the Asylum Authorities got into a difficulty as to the sewerage, they came upon the Town Coun- cil, and asked them to arrange for the disposal of the sewage. He might point to other things in connection with this matter, but these were few of the contentions which the five counties should consider before dropping upon the small town of Denbigh. Mr. Boaz Jones said he wished to endorse the remarks made by Mr. Gee, who had very clearly explained the position of the Corpora- tion of Denbigh. The Town Council were very anxious to do all they could in the matter, but were in great difficulty in coming to a decision. As to the estimate of £1,000 given by the chairman, he thought the Denbigh Town Council would vote that money, if the Asylum Authorities would undertake to do it for that sum (laughter). Sir Robert Egerton asked whether the Denbigh authorities were consulted at all as to the matter, and their objections to this point considered, or was this matter decid- ed entirely with the view of conveniencing the Asylum. The Chairman said the corporation had been told of the decision of the Asylum Au- been told of the decision of the Asylum Au- thority. With reference to what Mr. Gee had said, he did not think there would be any necessity to have a pumping station to pump the sewage up the hill. The sewage of the Asylum could not be sent through the present drainage system of the town, as it was in a very bad state indeed. Mr. Howel Gee: Question The Chairman reiterated his statement, and then proceeded to explain that the sewage of the Asylum would have to be taken direct to a meadow which stood at such a high altitude as to provide a sufficient fall to the sewage farm. A member of the Denbigh Town Council had already told them that their system of drain- age was not a very satisfactory one, and that it would be very expensive to carry out the requirements of thb Asylum Committee. No doubt it would be expensive. But the Asylum authorities were large ratepayers in the borough, and were entitled to the same privileges as other ratepayers. Mr. Benson If the Asylum is taken away from Denbigh, the borough will be poorer even than it is now (laughter). The Chairman then put the motion to the meeting, when it was carried by a majority of 21 against 5, those voting against it being Messrs. Howel Gee, John Roberts, Evan Ro- berts, John Jones, and Boaz Jones. The following letter, drawn out by the chair- man, was then directed to be sent to the Local Government Board on the subject Ruthin, January 28th, 1898, Asylum Sewage. SIR, Your letter dated the 16th November, 1898, with the accompaning letter from the Denbigh Town Council were duly submitted to the County Council at a meeting held on the 27th inst, and I was directed to forward to your Board the enclosed copy of a resolution adopted with reference thereto. The Council directed me iI1 transmitting the resolution to say, that they | considered it unnecessary to reply in detail to the several points referred to by the Town j Council, as they understand that these have already been replied to by the Asylum Oow- j mittee, who were closely acquainted with the f actg. The Council consider that as the coulLI ties in union, through the Asylum Committee contribute largely to the rates of the town, and may anticipate having to contribute to 110 greater degree in the early future, the request [ that the Asylum should be treated equally as well as any other house-holder cannot in any sense be considered unreasonable, and it woula be most unjust to the other ratepayers of this County to be called upon to pay towards the cost of any sewage disposal works at the Asylum which may be considered necessary, in consequence of continued neglect of the Town Council to fulfil it statutory duties. The County respectfully hope that considering the manifest importance to the public health that such an institution as the Asylum should be properly drained, your Board will at an early date sanction the loan for the drainage works, and also issue an order upon the Town Council to provide for the disposal of the sewage.' It was also decided that a copy of the letter be sent to the Asylum Committee, the Denbigh Town Council, and the clerks of the Rve counties in union. THE LATE MR. GEE. A letter dated 27th October, 1898, was read from the chairman of the Anglesea County Council expressing on behalf of his Council the great sense of the loss Wales had sustained bY the death of Mr. Thomas Gee, and also express, ing sympathy with Mrs. Gee and family. THE REMOVAL OF CIRCUSES, MENAGERIES, &c. ON SUNDAY. On the motion of Mr. Boaz Jones, seconded by Mr. Hooson, the Council by a large major- ity, considered a resolution adopted at the North Wales Wesleyan Synod, in favour of making a bye-law to prevent the removing ot menageries, circuses, and other shows, &c., of the Lord's Day, and decided to lefer the same to the Byelaws Committee. This concluded the business of the Council.

DENBIGH. /'-"""""'-/'\--/''-_./"'r'''''''/'

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