Papurau Newydd Cymru

Chwiliwch 15 miliwn o erthyglau papurau newydd Cymru

Cuddio Rhestr Erthyglau

2 erthygl ar y dudalen hon

R UTHIN.

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Rhannu

R UTHIN. BOARD OF GUARDIANS. The fortnightly meeting of the Board was "Old on Monday. Mr. Henry Williams pre- yed, and there were present Messrs. E. R. jjvans, Thomas Williams (Plas Coch), E. £ owell Jones, John Garner, R. H. Pugh, Robert White, Owen Williams, Isaac Daniel, Evan Davies, G. H. Simon, Edward White, T. P. Roberts, Edward Jones, R. "Ones, W. G. Richards, Mrs. Lumley, Mrs. Edward Roberts, and the clerk (Mr. R. L. Humphreys Roberts). 1 ACKNOWLEDGING THE SYMPATHY OF THE BOARD. Mr. Owen Williams and the Clerk thanked the Board for the kind vote of sympathy Passed with them at the last meeting. H THE RELIGIOUS SERVICES QUESTION. AN INDIGNANT PROTEST FROM THE CLERGY AND MINISTERS. The Clerk read the following letters i J[hich he had received from the Warden of ftuthin and the Nonconformists ininisters Of the town, with reference to the strictures P&ssed upon them at the last meeting of the i Board:— i; The Cloisters, ? Ruthin, Feb. 22nd, 1899. DEAR MR. HUMPHREYS ROBERTS, I have read in the I Free Prss' to-day, the 18th inst., a report of the last meeting s! the Ruthin Board of Guardians in whieh »he following statement was madeMr. T. Roberts rose to call attention to the fact that practically no religious services were Jeld at the Workhouse. It is to be regret- te<* that Mr. Roberts, before making this Assertion, and giving utterance to severe Pictures on the conduct of ministers of which were neither charitable nor ?ceurate, did not trouble himself to make and ascertain the facts. When I w's çhairman of the Guardians, I arranged a rota by which several of the clergy from j^hose parishes the inmates of the Work- honSe were iderived, undertook to be res- ponsible for divine service to be held Weekly in the Workhouse. ",hese arrange- ments, however, not proving satisfactory, I lQtimated to the master that a service every week would be taken alternately by the CUrate of Ruthin and by myself, on receiving Notice from him of a convenient day and lIne of the day for the purpose; I wish I ?°uld add that these notices have been regu- sent but whenever they have been Sent to me, they have, with one solitary Caption, been uniformly attended to, and J service held. A similar remark applies to curate of Ruthin. We could not, pf eOtirFie, know without an intimation, on what Jay, and at what time of the day it would convenient that Divine service should b8. held in the Workhouse. Mr. W. G. ^ohards is reported to have said that the retention of the clergy and ministers should ?? called to this subject, and that unless was an improvement, the Board should (jNj&ed to appoint a chaplain. The Guar- have the statutory power to make rjs appointment, and it is for them to de. • '^0 whether they think it desirable, the folates of the Workhouse being drawn from an area of the country of considerable extent. Faithfully yours, BULKELEY O. JONES. I Ruthin, L Feb. 24th, 1899. Dear SIR, NWe, the undersigned, respectively have Received your letter of the 22nd inst. The Nonconformist ministers of Ruthin, apart from other services, have saved hundreds of Pounds to the ratepayers; but for these voluntary services we were unheard at the |ast meeting of the Board, and denounced in terms most offensive. We demand an un- qualified withdrawal of the unkind and uniustexpresaions made about us, and then "e are at your call to seriously consider any plan for a better and more efficient services at the Workhouse. We are, sir, Yours respectfully, ISAAC JAMES, Baptist Minister. EVAN STEPHENS, C.M. „ ROBERT LEWIS, Wesleyan.. „ DAVYDD JONES, Independent „ E. J. WILLIAMS, C.M. „ The Chairman: I am exceedingly. sorry Jhat remarks were made on this subject a fortnight to-day, but I might say that the as such did not endorse the state- ments made by some of the members. Un- doubtedly an arrangement was made many ^ears ago, whereby clergy and ministers of the town were to hold services in the work- house, but we have now a different set of Ministers altogether to what we had then, 'nd possibly they were not aware of the listing arrangement. Mr. G. H. Simon Will you kindly inform \18, Mr. Chairman, what the arrangement 1 The Chairman: That the churches and c?apels of the town should supply the reli- gious services in the Workhouse. Mr. Simon: Were they under this ar- ro,llgement to come here on week days ? nThe Chairman: Yes,^the clergy of the ^hurch of England. The Clerk: The arrangement was that he ministers of the different denominations 2jf' the town should hold services here on Sundays, and the clergy should also hold, lervices weekly upon receiving a notice from the master of the Workhouse fixing a Convenient day and hour for such service, ".ince then, we have made certain altera- tions which relieved the n from this ar- faugement to some extent, inasmuch as we have left the inmates to attend different Waces of worship in the town. Mr. E. H. Simon: But there are several folates in the house who don't attend Allch places. The Clerk: Yes, that is so. Mr. Simon: I understand from the report Ju the newspapers, that- no service had been held in the house since Christmas, and.it ^aa stated that no entry to that effect was the master's book. I now find that the Ambrose Jones was here three weeks ago. The Chairman: Was he here, and no 'entry to that effect made? ^?r. Tr.> certain he was here, Mr. T. P, Roberts But I understand the I faster to complain., that when he gave Notice to the different ministers that they not attend. The Olerk i better read what the master reported to hav* said at the last meeting, lihe statement madft by the master was ^hen read from ths North Wales Times.') JNow the Warden in his letter, states that ^ith one exception he has arranged to attend on week days to hold services, when he master reported to that effect, but that wished that the masters notices had taore regularly sent. I tie Chium*n (to the m&sten« You Leaf yni&t tha Waraea aays. Have you not sent £ ,?otjC8s regularly ? Master: They have not been regu- larly sent, because there is something going on in the house, especially at Christmas time, which prevents us sending, but during the rest of the year the notice is sent pretty regularly. The Clerk having read the letter which he had sent to the clergy and ministers on the question, said-I thiuk the great defi- ciency is in visiting the sick wards. The inmates of these wards are really those in need of services. The others are allowed to go to places of worship pretty regularly. Mr. T. P. Roberts: What I feel is this, that we have no right to reprimand people who give their service for nothing. They have attended here for years, and as one of the letters states, they have saved hund- reds of pounds to the ratepayers, and to turn upon them in the way it was done- I don't know who did—I don't think it was very wise or generous. If we paid them for their services, it would be another mat- ter altogether, but we do not pay. They give their services for nothing, and to threaten them in the way we did, was rather a peculiar way to bring the matter forward. The Chairman I don't think the Board as a whole, shared in the expressions made by one or two members last meeting. Bethania chapel is in connection with Bontuchel, and it is impossible for the ministers to attend here on Sunday morn- ing, when he is to preach at Bontuchel. Mr. T. P. Roberts said the chairman had given very excellent reason. The ministers could certainly not attend. He should like to know whether some arrangement could not be arrived at with the chapels, whereby the good deacons of the town could be made to attend the Workhouse to hold prayer meetings with the inmates. That, in his opinion, would be better than a sermon even. When the minister could not come with a 1 big' dry sermon, a prayer would perhaps reach the inmates' hearts and con- viction, and create sympathy in their mind towards the people that came there to minister to their religious want. A chaplain visiting the house in the morning, and run- ning, as it were, through his sermons, would not be very conducive to the good of the inmates. He was sure this arrangement would answer the purpose well. Mr. Evan Davies said he referred a fort- night ago to the subject dealt with by Mr. T. P. Roberts, and he was of the same opin ion now. It was most difficult for the ministers to attend the Workhouse when they only received a notice from the master late on the Saturday night previously. He would suggest that the ministers should at- tend the Workhouse every alternate month, rather than every alternate Sunday, so that each chapeljmight know what month it was expected to supply the minister. Also that a few deacons should be asked to attend. He would propose that a change of system in the way he had outlined should take place, and in the absence of the minister, that the deacons be asked to attend to hold a prayer meeting. The church at Pwllglas was willing to fall in with this arrange- ment. Mr. Robert Roberts said he did not think that the ministers and the clergy were so innocent from the charge as they attempted to make out in their letter. There was no doubt that they had promised to come to the house in their turn to hold religious services for the purpose of keeping down the rate. As they were guilty of neglecting this arrangement, the censure passed upon them was to some extent deserved. They should certainly have considered the poor paupers, and even if they received no notice from the master, they should have visited the house. The Chairman said that the inmates who were able to go out of the house were not great sufferers in this matter. What was really wanted, was a system of visiting the sick. He was sorry to hear Mr. White speaking as he had just done, as his re- marks would undoubtedly tend to further hurt the feelings of the clergy and ministers. He was also sorry that the subject had been dealt in such a manner at the last meeting. Mr. Owen Williams said that he was not present at the last meeting, and regretted very much that such an unwarrantable attack had been made upon the ministers and clergy of the town. Before putting the resolution proposed by Mr. Evan Davies before the meeting, he thought their first and foremost duty would be to pass a re- solution expressing their regret at the remarks made at their previous meeting with respect to the clergy and ministers, and that then some means be ten with the view of bringing on some arrangement which would be acceptable to the ministers and the BoaTd. Mr. Thomas Jones said he was also, of the same opinion as Mr. Owen Williams, and would second his motion. Mr. T. P. Roberts: I would also suggest that the clerk in communicating with the ministers, would explain that the Board were not unanimous on this question at its last meeting. The motion was then agreed to. Mr. T. P. Roberts said he spoke with Mr. Fisher, the curate of Ruthin, on this mat- ter, and understood from him that he had never refused to attend the house at funerals, &c.,t,when he received notice from the master. The Master said this was so. The Chairman: We do not complain of the obsequies over the dead. We want ser- vices for the living (laughter). Mr. E. R. Evans asked whether it would not be possible to appoint a committee of three or four to confer with the ministers, and to make any arrangement they deemed fair and just. The Clerk said the difficulty was this. The ministers gave their services for nothing, and a gift horse should not be looked in the mouth. It was for them to suggest and not the Board. Mr. Richard J ores said he agreed with Mr. E. R. Evans. T<>. appoint a committee would certainly be vi constitutional way of dealing with the nntter (laughter). A thorough understanding should be arrived at between the Board on ti." one hand, and the ministers and deacon. on the other. Personally, he thought thel) was no ne- cessity for raising the questicti at the last meeting, although some good 11J ight result from it. He was afraid, however, that their action in the matter only gave the Philis- tines cause for laughter; but it was sin- cerely hoped that the good work would con- tinue, and that better understanding would prevail in the future (hear, hear). Mr. W. G K Jd he did not ouite i agree with th-.1 "atu now before the meeting. To hold religious services in the Workhouse under fife present system was a labour of love, and the ministers themselves were the proper persons to draw out a j scheme for holding these services regularly la the future. He tailed to see what would be gained by appointing three or four Guardians as a committee to consider this matter with the ministers. Personally, he | was not "orry .that the subject had been raised at the last meeting. On the other j hand, he was rather glad of it, and he would ] venture to say that those who spoke at the previous meeting had no intention what- ever of injuring the feeling of anyone. The discussion was caused on account of there being no entry on the minute book as to religious services, and when the resolution was placed before them, it was unanimous Iy agreed to. Since then, the reply of the ministers and clergy had been received, and it was now a question for the master of the Workhouse—whether he bad in all cases served the responsible ministers with a sufficient notice requesting their atten- dance. He wished to know whether the ministers, after having read the notice, had neglected to attend ? The Master replied, that sometimes the ministers would not be at home when the messenger arrived. That was the case with the Rev. I. James. Some members of the family would be seen, and they always pro- mised to inform Mr. James himself. The same might be said of the Rev. D. Jones, Pendref. Mr. Simon Did one of them attend here yesterday ? The Master: No. Mr. T. P. Roberts: I suppose they have 'striked,' and follow the example of the miners (laughter). Mr. Richards said they as a Board could not get over the fact that the ministers had agreed to hold regular religious services in the Workhouse. The Master said the present ministers of Ruthin had not agreed to do so. Mr. Richards remarked that every new minister that came to Ruthin bad fallen in with the existing system, and some time or other had officiated at the house. That in itself was proof positive that they recog- nised the arrangement in vogue at the time. Under all the circumstances, he thought the resolution passed at the last meeting, a fair and reasonable one. The Chairman: It is not the resolution that has caused offence, but the remarks made by some of the members who spoke on the question. Mr. Garner thought the resolution pro- posed by Mr. E. R. Evans a very fair one all round. Mr. T. P. Roberts: Let us have it in the form of a suggestion, instead of a resolu- tion. Mr. E. R. Evans: In proposing my reso- lution, I do not mean that we should claim the services of the ministers, but simply as a means of arriving at some mutual un- derstanding. The Clerk: The carrying of Mr. E. Davies' resolution means that the master may at any time send a notice calling upon the ministers to come here. Mr. Thomas Jones was of opinion that the master had, to some extent, neglected to carry out properly the arrangement existing previously. A minister receiving notice late on Saturday evening, could not be expected to attend. He would support the motion of Mr. E. R. Evans. After further discussion, Mr. Evan Davies' resolution was carried. The Chairman: Then I take it that Mr. E. R. Evans' motion may be considered as a rider. The Board agreed to it in this form, and on the motion of Mr. Owen Williams, secon- ded by Mr. Richards, the following were appointed on the committee:—The Chair- man, Mrs. Lumley, Mr. T. P. Roberts, Mr. Evan Davies, the Rev. J. F. Reece, and the Master. On the suggestion of the clerk, it was also decided to keep a chaplain's report book, in which the visits of the ministers and the services held be hereafter recorded. THE RECENT INQUEST AT RUTHIN. THE CORONER AND THE RELIEVING OFFICER. The Clerk said that he had received a letter from the coroner (Dr. J. R. Hughes), with reference to the resolution passed by the Board at its last meeting, desiring to know from the coroner whether his stric- tures on the relieving officer for the Ruthin District had been correctly reported in the press or not. The letter was to the follow- ing effect 1 Sir,—As a matter of courtesy, I acknow- ledge the the receipt of your letter.' (Signed), J. R. Hughes. Mr. T. P. Roberts: He is a bard I see, singing in good blank verse (laughter).

. DENBIGHSHIRE ASSIZES.