The Welsh Coast Pioneer and Review for North Cambria

DENBIGHSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL. SMALL HOLDINGS. CRITICISM OF THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE. THE CHIEF CONSTABLE'S POWERS. (By Our Reporter.). A quarterly meeting of the Denbighshire Coun- ty Council was held on Friday at Wrexham, Mr A. O. Evans presiding. The other members present were Sir Foster Cuniiffe, Colonel Cornwallis West, Colonel C. S. Mainwaring, Dr. David Lloyd, Dr. J. Mcdwyn Hughes, Messrs Richard Middleton, John Ro- berts, George Bevan, Edward Allen, John Allen, D. Mac. Nicoll, Bennett Jones, Gomer Roberts, Thomas Jones (Wrexham), Boaz Jones, Evan Ro- berts, J. M. Porter, Godfrey Fitzhugh, W. J. Williams, J. D. Jones (Cysulog), J. R. Williams, Henry Williams, Thomas Joned (Llanynys), J. Stephen Jones, J. W. Evans, Thomas Evans, John Hughes, D. 0. Williams, Geo. Oromar, Hugh Hughes, F. A. Sturge, J. D. Jones (St. George), Robert Ellis, Robert Jones, J. D. W. Griffith, Simon Jones, James Frazer, Griffith Jones, E. Lloyd Jones, W. G. Dodd, R. A. Jones, Christmas Jones, Edward Hughes, J. A. Harrop, D. W. Roberta, J. A. Chadwick, Trevor Lloyd Jones, Edward Williams, Edward Roberts, J. Wilcoxon, Jonathan Griffiths, and J. T. Mill- wavd, with the Clerk (Mr W. R. Evans), and other officials. Apologies for absence were received from Messrs E. Seymour Jones and T. Rogers Jones. SMALL HOLDINGS. £1,500 TO BE BORROWED. It was formally reported that Ty'n-y-Caeau Farm, LlanJTynhafal, had been purchased by the Small Holdings Committee, at a sum of £1425. and that an expenditure of JB75 would be immedi- ately required in addition to pay for the land. JS200 would also be required to erect a house and buildings on one part of the farm in order to make it into suitable small holdings. The CLERK said the Inspector of the Board of "Agriculture had stated that he would report favourably to the Local Government Board and the Public Works Loan Board with the view of enabling the Council to secure a loan. What was now desired was, that the Council should sanction a loan of F,1500 to meet immediate require- ments. „ Mr W. G. DODD (Llangollen) moved that sanction be given. Adverting to a recommendation that tne L,oun- cil should further delegate its powers to the Small Holdings Committee, Mr SIMON JONES (Wrexham) hoped the Council would take this matter into serious con- sideration before deciding to delegate its powers, because that committee might involve the county in an expenditure of many thousands of pounds. In his opinion, powers of such an extensive char- acter ought not to be delegated and he objected t°Mr JOHN ROBERTS (Plas Heaton Farm) said that if the powers were not delegated, the committee might as well throw up the sponge altogether. If land was to be purchased, that would have to be decided upon in a very short 11The CLERK said that the Council had the protection of the Board of Agriculture in regard to the purchase of the land. If the Board once gave its approval, then the Council would be re- couped for any loss it might sustain. Mr SIMON JONES: That relieves the situa- tion very much. The Board of Agriculture are very kind (laughter). Mr JOHN ROBERTS, in referring to the work already accomplished by the committee, said that 683 acres of land had practically been acquired in the course of the last week or two, and negotiations were gomg on for the acquisi- tion of additional land. The special officer had been busy interviewing landowners and appli- cants, and the Commissioner (Mr John Owen) was very pleased with the work done by the com- mittee; in fact, Mr Owen stated that Denbigh- shire had done more than any other County Council in Wales to put the Act in operation (hMr TREVOR LLOYD JONES. (Llangollen) argued that small holdings would, in the course of time, be a source of revenue to the county. Mr D. MAC. NI COLL (Glan Conway) said that the ownership of land had its disadvantages, as well as advantages. There would be many diffi- culties to contend with, and before the Council would be many years older, he was afraid they would find out that the possession of small hold- ings would not be a source of revenue, but quite thCoToneTcORNWALLIS WEST said that if it was intended to give the committee the powers sucrfrested a fuller and more accurate description of its work should be given in its report, so that members of the Council could judge for them- selves at the end of each quarter what was going on. The committee should most certainly give very luminous reports each quarter of what was ieintr done (hear, hear). The CHAIRMAN: That has been done up to tiie I)r(,-sent. A detailed report has been given of everything that has been done. Mr GEORGE CROMAR (Rossett) contended that the Act could not b.e put in operation pro- perly unless the Council had confidence in the committee (hear, hear). He was sure the com- mittee would not commit the Council to anything that was unreasonable. Mr SIMON JONES said he had been chairman of the Allotments and Small Holdings Act Com- mittee of the Council for some years, and entered heart and soul into th work with the view of putting. the old Act into operation. At Isycoed six farm labourers-all suitable candidates ap- plied for allotments, but a complaint was soon made that they had selected the best and most convenient land on the farms. The rent was L2 per acre, but to the surprise and disappoint- ment of the committee the men threw the whole thing up. Such an experience should not be ^°Mr CROMAR. in reply to Mr Jones, said there was a different spirit abroad now, and a tendency to bring the people back to the land. Probably a large number of people would be desirous of acquiring land, and the Council should not bo discouraged by what Mr Simon Jones had just said (hear, hear). Mr SIMON JONES: I am only giving you the value of the Council's experience in the past. The VICE-CHAIRMAN: Is it proposed to purchase farms before applications for allotments arc received? Mr JOHN ROBERTS: No. After further discussion, the Council s powers were delegated to the committee, and sanction given to borrow £ 1500. THE PRICE OF LAND IN WREXHAM. The Main Roads Committee for the Wrexham district recommended the purchase of 332 yards of land in Wrexham as site for a new office of weights and measures in that town, and which at 30s per yard would amount to £ 498. The adoption of the recommendation having teen moved and seconded, Mr JOHN ROBERTS said this was an enor- n ou. price to pay for a site for such an jffica (hear, hear). It was not necessary to find a s:t'J in a principal street, and he moved that the n tter be referred back to the committee for re- consideration (hear, hear). Colonel CORNWALLIS WEST seconded. £!8 was a considerable sum of money to pay foi a few yards of land, and an office could certainly be procured without going to such an enormous expense (hear, hear). Mr GOMER ROBERTS (Llanelidan) supported. He did not deny that an office was required, but was it required in a place costing the county as much as 30s a yard? (hear, hear). A few years ago there was a great cry that the new county offices should be built in Wrexham, and had that been done the county would have had to pay an enormous amount for the site judging by tho sum asked for the land now in question. He did not think the Council would be justified in going to this expense. Mr J. M. PORTER argued that JB498 would po verv far in buying c dwelling-house, let alone a site for an offlte. The recommendation of the committee was supported by Messrs Edward Roberts, John Allen, J. A. Chadwick, and Thomas Jones (Wrexham), who said that Wrexham was always very moderate in its demands on the Council ("Oh," and laughter). Mr GEORGE BEVAN (Colwyn Bay) also sup- ported, saying that the convenience of the trades- men of a large town like Wrexham ought to be considered in the matter. On a division 32 voted for the amendment, and 22 against, and the amendment was declared car- ried. DENBIGH DISTR!CT MAIN ROADS. The Main Road Committee for the Denbigh District recommended that application be made to tho Local Government Board for an Order limiting the speed of motor cars within the bor- ough of Denbigh, the Conway rural district, and in respect of the main road from Colwyn Bay to Llanrwst, to ten miles an hour. The adoption of the recommendation having been moved by Mr Gomer Roberts, and Seconded, Mr GEORGE BEVAN (Colwyn Bay) said it seemed to him ridiculous to schedule portions it seemed to him ridiculous to schedule portions of a country road like that from Colwyn Bay to Llanrwst from the limit of speed to ten miles an hour. He would have no objection to do that in the village of Glan Conway, but there were certain lengths of road between Colwyn Bay and Llanrwst wlhere hardly a house could be seen, and he moved as an amendment that tflie recommendation be referred back to the committee. Mr D. MAC. NICOLL seconded, and it was agreed to. ASSISTANT INSPECTOR OF WEIGHTS AND MEASURES. Forty-seven applications for the appointment of assistant inspector of weights and measures for Denbigh district had been received. The list had been reduced to four, viz-, David Wil- liam Davies, Pentrelleeb, Llanrhaiadr; Douglas W. Gnruths, BtEw1.-5r.5- Goxcage, ttutnm; I. Ifor Williams, Kington, Hereford (a native of Ruthin), and J. Leonard Hughes, Vrongoch, Denbigh. The latter withdrew his name, and the three first named now appeared before the Council to be interviewed. Eaoh was proposed and seconded. The first voting resulted as fol- I-o-,N-s:-I)aviec, 22, Griffiths 19, Williams 12. In the second vote Griffiths obtained 28, and Da- vkis 24. Then, on the motion of Mr J. WIL- COXON, seconded by Mr J. STEPHEN JONES, Mr Douglas Griffiths was unanimously appointed. SHEEP SCAB AND DIPPING. The Board of Agriculture had communicated with the Diseases of Animals Committee for the Denbigh district to the effect that in view of the prevalence last season of sheep scab in the area to which the Dipping Order of 1908 applied, the Board did not think any modifica- tion of its requirements as to dipping could properly be made during the current year. Mr JOHN ROBERTS (Plas Heaton Farm) said he had called at the Board of Agriculture a short time ago, and was informed that the subject of revoking the Order would be recon- sidered if the Council made a further applica- tion and gave reasons. This matter would, therefore, come before the next meeting of the committee. THE MINERA MOUNTAIN DISPUTE. A special meeing had been appointed to con- sider the dispute re access to the Minera Moun- tain for t'he purpose of enjoyment, the gather- ing of whin berries, etc., and it now recommended that if the Wrexham Rural District Council ap- ply for consent to aid persona in maintaining righti of common over the mountain, such consent be given, and that any other assistance which could properly be given by the County Council to aid in maintaining such rights be given. It was explained b; Mr J. WILCOXON that the question in dispute affected a population of over 80,000, who had liitherto enjoyed right of ac- cess to the mountain Mr BENNETT JONES (Bylchau): Can we recover any expense that might be incurred from the Rural Council ? The CLERK: There will be no expense to t.he county The recorrinMndation was unanimously adopted. PUBLIC HEALTH. Col- OORNWALLIS WEST moved the adop- tion of the report of the Public Health Act) Committee, and in doing so particularly referred to the Dairies and Cowsheds Order, and said that many Welsh farmers were ignorant of the fact that dairies ought to be conducted on principles of absolute cleanliness. Dirty dairies and cowsheds were a source of extreme danger, especially to young children. Men and women, upon whom devolved the duty of milking", often did it with dirt-V aprons and hands; and local authorities ought to be very particular indeed in insisting that the Order should be observed (hear, hear). "With regard to the Llandyrnog and I langynhafal water supply, he was glad to say that a scheme was at last about to be car- ried out (applause). A competent engineer had been employed, and plans were being made t-à be submitted to the Local Government Board. The health of the county as a whole had improved very largely. DR. VENABLES WILLIAMS' NEW APPOINT- MENT. Mr CROMAR seconded the motion. Among other matters contained in the report was a recommendation that the resignation of Dr. Frazer as inspector of midwives and medical inspector of schools for the rural districts of Llanrwst and Glan Conway and the urban dis- tricts of Llanrwst and Colwyn Bay, be accepted, and that Dr. G. Lewis Travis be appointed as from the 31st of December next, his successor for the districts named. Mr EDWARD ALLEN (Colwyn Bay) pointed to the fact that Dr. Travis had not succeeded Dr. Frazer as medical officer of health so far as Colwvn Bay was concerned. That district had appointed its own officer, and he moved as an amendment that Dr. Venables Williams be ap- pointed as medical inspector of midwives and schools. Mr DEVAN seconded, and after an explana- tion from the CLERK, the amendment was car- ried unanimously. With this modification the report of the com- mittee was adopted. THE BUDGET. ANOTHER INCREASE IN THE RATES. MR GEORGE BEVAN'S PROTEST. The Finance Committee recommended the levy- ing of a rate of 6d in the £ for general county purposes, 6d^for elementary education, and i<l for higher education, to provide for the esti- mated expenditure during the ensuing si months. When the last rate was levied the Education Committee anticipated the necessity of a five-penny rate for the period now dealt with, but the estimates now falsified this expectation. The total rate for the year 1908-9 thus amounts to 2d in the £ as compared with Is 10d in the year 1907-8. Mr GEORGE CROMAR, the chairman of the committee, in moving the adoption of the minutes, attributed the increased expenditure in the county to the alarming advance in the cost of maintaining the main roads. With regard to the Education Committee's increased estimate, he pointed out that there had been a large fall- ing off in the attendance at the schools on ac- count of epidemics and bad weather, and this, of course, lost them a considerable sum in grants. The Government, too, had discouraged the send- ing to school of children under five years of age, and this had lost the county £ 1200. > Mr CHRISTMAS JONES (Cefn Mawr), in seconding, further explained that the increased cost of education was also due to advances in the teachers' salaries to the extent of JS653. It would be good news to the ratepayers that this year thev would pay the last instalment on the loan of £ 6000 which was obtained when the Act was ad- opted four years ago. He believed there was a reasonable expectation that they would not have to ask the Council for any increase in the rate next year. Answering public complaints that the cost of education in the county had gone up by leaps and bounds, he argued that this was not true in view of the fact that in the first year they levied a shilling rate, in the second a lOd rate, last year a lid rate, and this year it was to be Is Od. Mr D. MAC. NICOLL rose to move that the rate be not increased from 5d to 6d for elemen- tary education. Mr Cromar had held the Government partly to blame for this, and they were certainly to blame for many other things as well (laughter). When the Is rate was first put on, it was no doubt done so that there might be money in hand to put the Act first into operation. In May last, however, the Council was told that a lid rate would be ample, and although an in- crease of only a Id was proposed, it would really mean 2d owing to the increased assessable value of the county. The increase, he ventured to think was quite unreasonable. He was anxioua for efficiency, and what he complained of was the extravagant policy of the party in power. The Education Committee should be put on their beam ends with the view of economising, and the way to do that would be by refusing to increase the rate from 5d to 6d. On the "appointed day" there were 17,773 children on the registers, where- as in June last thev numbered 19,288, an increase of 1575, from which to draw additional grant. The teachers now numbered 723, as against 490 on the "appointe4 day." Where this increased "n'umber of teachers"Went to he did not know, but perhans the committee could explain. His amendment was that the rate be not increased beyond 5d. MR GODFREY FITZHUGH seconded, be- cause he did not see where they were going to got the Id extra worth of education. Mr G. BEVAN said he supported the amend- ment, but did so on different grounds to those who had already spoken. Too much licence had been given to the Education Committee, who had been most extravagant with the monies of the county. Many members of the committee were not responsible to the ratepayers, and their extravagance oompelled him, on behalf of the ratepayers, to make this protest. Colonel CORNWALLIS WEST said there was a feeling prevalent not only in that oounty, but all over the country, that this education business was really run almost at too great a pace. They had spent enormofis sums upon building magnificent schools and fur- nishing them in the most luxurious way. He urged that something should be done to prevent a continuance of this raising of the education rate. He also protested strongly against allowing rail- way fares to children attending County Schools at a distance from their homes in cases where the parents could well afford to pay the fares themselves. Mr CROMAR said he never heard Colonel West objecting to the spending of thousands of pounds on the Education Offices at Ruthin (laughter, in which Colonel West joined). He must confess there was a large amount of waste upon that undertaking. The rates would be re- duced as soon as they could be; but they were not going to reduce them at the cost of educa- tional efficiency. He challenged anyone to point to a specific instance of extravagance in the ad- ministration of the schools. Seven voted in favour of the lesser rate, and the Finance Committee's recommendations were then adopted. t THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE. I ANOTHER PROTEST. Mr EDWARD ROBERTS (Brymbo) moved that the powers of the Council under the Educa- tion Act be delegated to the Education Commit- tee for the next six months. Mr J. WILCOXON seconded. Mr GEO. BEVAN complained that the reports of the Education Committee only reached him by that morning's post, and that he had, there- fore, no opportunity of perusing them. The CLERK explained that the reports were sent out as soon. as possible after the meetings of the committee were held. Sir FOSTER CUNLIFFE thought it a de- plorable thing to give the Education Committee such extensive powers for such a long time. It was not by eny means a representative body, although elected by the majority on the County Council. The minority, however, represented about a third of the ratepayers, but they had nothing like that proportion of the Education Committee, and they were bound to bring be- fore the ratepayers the fact that they were not, in any sense of the tprm, responsible for what the Education Committee did. Last year he was in a minority of one in an assembly of 25, and although the minority had a right to about a dozen representatives on the committee, they had at present only five or six. He objected to the delegation of powers, because he thought it a bad principle all through. Mr BEVAN said his reason for not voting against the delegation of powers had been given on other occasions, viz., that the Education Committee was not responsible to the ratepayers, and were inclined to be extravagant. There were three parties that were continually pressing the Education Committee to spend money, viz., the schoolmasters on the one hand, and on the other the architect, whose inclination to spend money was getting proverbial—(laughter)—whilst they were also pressed by the Education De- partment. These were "terrible, strong powers," and it required something more than the strength of a co-opted person or an alderman to withstand it (laughter). Every request made by the school- master or the architect was at once carried through, at least that was the conclusion he had home to after a cursory glance through the com- mittee's report. He understood that owing to the pressure of a schoolmaster, the committee had agreed to allow children of ten years of age to be taken from the elementary schools to the County Schools (cries of "No, no"). Mr J. WILCOXON: No such thing, and I think Mr Bevan ought to apologise for saying it. Mr BEVAN: If I am wrong, I do apologise- (laughter)—but I understand it is a practice for children to leave the elementary school about the age of ten years, and as soon as they pass the fifth standard. Mr WILCOXON: No; not until they earn scholarships, and that will be about the age of 13 years. Continuing, Mr BEVAN said there were even now children in the Wrexham County School under 12 years of age, and this practice was proving a great loss oc revenue to the county owing to the consequent reduction in grant to the extent of about B2 per head. It would be very much to the benefit of the county if these children remained in the elementary school until 12 years of age at least. He agreed that the Education Committee was in an awkward position —too awkward indeed for a co-opted member and an alderman, who were independent of the ratepayers, to withstand (laughter). Replying to Mr Bevan, Mr J. WILCOXON said that a parent had a right to send his children to whatever school he liked, even to the County School if he could afford to pay the tuition fees. Mr THOS. JONES (Wrexham) said that out of 400 children in the Wrexham County School there were not a dozen under 12 years of age, and this did away with Mr Bevan's argument, so far .as Wrexham was concerned at any rate. Colonel WEST argued that it would ber im- practicable to bring elementary schools within a couple of miles to every child's home as had been suggested in the newspapers. It would be far better, in his opinion, to convey them in vans if they lived at a distance of three miles and more from school. Mr JOHN ROBERTS said he would lik6 to say a word in reference to the unfortunate crea- ture called an alderman (laughter). He happened to be an alderman, but had been elected by the ratepayers on seven different occasions, and not once rejected, as Mr Bevan had been (hear, hear, and laughter). He did not know why Mr Bevan should come there and sneer at the al- dermen. Mr D. W. ROBERTS said tha„t. several mem- bers of the minority had declined to act on the Education Committee, although nominated. They should, therefore, be sympathetic towards them- solves before making these complaints (hear, hear). Mr CHRISTMAS JONES (Cefnmawr) said that although an alderman he did not feel the personal reflection to such a degree as Mr John Roberts. It would be much better for Mr Bevan to make himself better acquainted with educa- tional questions than to come there to express himself on matters with which he was not con- versant (hoar, hear, and laughter). The motion was then carried by a large majority. THE CHEIF-COMSTABLE'S POWERS. THE CASE OF SUPERINTENDENT HUGH JONES. Mr GOMER ROBERTS had given notice of a motion to call the attention of the Council to the discussion which took place at the Quarter Sessions an the subject of the application of Supt. H ng-h Jones, of Llanrwst, for a pension, and the withdrawal of such application, and to move a resolution thereon. Mr GODFREY FITZHUGH pointed out that as the terms of the resolution were not stated in the notice of motion it would be out of order to move any resolution on the subject. He asked for the ruling of the Chair on the matter. The CHAIRMAN: I am afraid you arc right, Mr Fitzhugh, but Mr Roberts can move the sus- pension of the Standing Orders. Mr FITZHUGH: Why are you afntid, Mr Chairman? (laughter). The CHAIRMAN: I am not afraid, although I used the word. Mr FITZHUGH: I appeal to you for an im- partial decision. The CHAIRMAN: And I have given it. On the motion of Mr CHRISTMAS JONES, seconded by Mr BENNETT JONES, the Stand- ing Orders were then suspended, 30 voting for, and 9 against. Mr GOMER ROBERTS said he was rather afraid that there was something in the minds of his "friends" there, pointing to the fact that something terrible occurred at the last meeting of the Standing Joint Committee (laughter). It was so terrible indeed that the Quarter Sessions took some time to discuss it; and it was the first time, so far as he knew, since the passing of the Local Government Act, for the Quarter Sessions to take any steps at a* to criticise or endorse any- thing done by that committee. Therefore, some- thing terrible must have occurred (laughter). But, really, it was a very simple thing. Mr ROBERTS went on to review Superinten- dent Hugh Jones' resignation^ and to state the circumstances under which he withdrew his re- signation—facts which are already within the re- collection of our readers. The representatives of the Quarter Sessions voted one way on the sub- ject, and the representatives of the County Coun- cil the other way, and the latter that day hap- pened to be in the majority. At their next meeting, the Quarter Sessions washed their hands from such an atrocity (laughter). In the eyes of a certain class, the members of the County Council on the Standing Joint Committee did something shocking, and that was the reason why ho raised the matter up that day. Rising to a point of order, Colonel CORN- WALLIS WEST protested against the line taken by Mr Roberts. The rea-son which the Quarter Sessions had for discussing this matter was be- cause they thought that the Standing Joint Com- mittee had acted ultra vires. Proceeding, Mr GOMER ROBERTS said he rose to defend the action of the County Coun- cil's representatives on the committee. Supt. Hugh Jones, on being asked a question, said he wished to retain his post, and the majority of the committee thought that he should be allowed to withdraw his resignation. They did that on several grounds. They knew that the officer was capable of serving the county for many years. The very mild resolution he wished to move was "That this Council desires" to place on record its entire approval of the action of its represen- tative on the Standing Joint Committee in sup- porting the application of Supt. Hugh Jones for permission to withdraw his resignation." It had been said at the Quarter Sessions that to allow the withdrawal of the resignation amounted to a vote of censure on the Chief-Constable. That he denied entirely (hear, hear). And why were mat- ters such as resignations and the granting of pen- sions brought before the committee at all unless its members had something to say about these things? He was quite sure that every member representing the Council on the Standing Joint Committee was quite as loyal to the Chief-Con- stable, and to the good government of the police as any other member (hear, hear). They were not friends of disloyalty or indiscretion, but they believed, and rightly believed, that Supt. Hugh Jones ought to be left where he was until he showed more signs of infirmity than at present (hear, hear). They had been blamed for extra- vagance by a certain section of their friends. They were blamed in the press by the very same section, and on the platform, if they could get a platform at all-(loud laughter)—for extra- gance, and yet those who were blamed had saved the Pension Fund to the extent of JB108 per an- num. Besides this, they had the confidence of the police force, because they showed their ap- preciation of long and faithful services (hear, hear). Colonel WEST again rose to a point of order. lIe wished to protest against any allusion being made to the force. Bearing in mind the powers of the Chief-Constable, it was not fair to make such remarks. Mr GOMER ROBERTS said he rather liked to be interrupted, because the interruption caused him to remember a great many more things (laughter). The last interruption had brought to his mind the fact that the Chief-Constable s power over the force was granted under a very old Act of Parliament, passed in 1839. It was r,lc now 69 years of age—some years older than the Superintendent, and lie thought it was one of those laws which would be more honoured in the breach than in the observance (laughter). The County Council representatives were not at the Standing Joint Committee to censure the Chief-Constable, but rather to give permission to the Superintendent to withdraw his resignation. That had been done, and whv all the hulla balloo about it? (laughter and hear, hear). They never heard a word of complaint when another proposition by the Chief-Constable was negatived about 18 months ago, and why make such a row now. (hear, hear). What was the reason for this cry, and reference to Standing Orders? —— Sir FOSTER CUNLIFFE: If you sit down, Mr Roberts, and give somebody else the chance, you may probably got the reason. Mr GOMER ROBERTS: Sir Foster, when he enters Parliament, may perhaps vote in favour of the Bill, which will somewhat alter the posi- tion and powers of the Chief-Constable (hear, hear, and laughter).. Sir FOSTER: I appreciate your good wishes. Mr EDWARD. ROBERTS (Brymbo), in se- conding the motion, endorsed Mr Roberts re- marks There was no intention of casting any reflection on the Chief-Constable (hear, hear). Supt Huo-h Jones looked hale, hearty and strong. He felt well, and able to discharge the. duties for many years to come (hear, hear). Mr GODFREY FITZHUGH was glad to hear both the mover and seconder disclaim any inten- tion to censure the Chief-Constable. They had, however, created a most peculiar and humiliatory situation. They had got Supt. Hugh Jones still in the force, knowing that his chief did not con- sider him fit to be there (cries of "No"). Well, the Chief-Constable had recommended that he should retire. He maintained that no one was so good a judge of the men who were under him as the Chief-Constable himself. He consid- ered that what had been done could only tend in the long run to weaken the authority of the Chief- Constable—(hear, hear, and cries of "No )—and possibly make his position impossible. Colonel CORNWALLIS WEST was very sorry that this motion had been brought forward. It was a most unfortunate thing, and one he depre- cated most strongly. The facts had been com- ,riuni,ated to the Home Office, and he believed the Home Office would say that in matters of the appointment and resignations of any member of the Force, the Chief Constable was supreme. He believed also that the committee could not even advice, although they might express an opin.on. Unfortunately certain members of the Standing Joint Committee had chosen to override the opin- ion of the Chief Constable. He was grieved to think that this would create a feeling of unrest in the force, but ho felt convinced that the Home Office, when its opinion became known, would be found to Uphold the Chief Constable. He ap- pealed to the mover of the resolution to with- draw it until the opinion of the Home Office be- came known. Mr D. MAC. NICOLL said all this had been brought about by moribund sentiment. It would be no great hardship to the superintendent to re- tire on £ 108 a year, and if he did he would en- able other men to come forward in the force. The question, was, whether a man 61 years of age, was capable of undertaking the work of such a position. It was a pity that sides were taken in this matter, because the man- agement of the police force lay entirely in the hands of the Chief Constable a man respected and believed in by the force (cheers). Ho would appeal to Mr Gomer Roberts to let this matter dron. The CHIEF CONSTABLE, wno was present, referring to the question in its relation to the Pension Fund, said the superintendent's retire- ment would cost nothing like JE108 per annum. All that was paid by the county last year, as far as police pensions were concerned, was 97 10s. M-r GOMER ROBERTS said the contention that the management of the police was in the hands of the Chief Constable was probably corl rect legally, but what was the Standing Joint Committee for? Were the 24 members of the committee to do nothing but to meet quarterly to say "Amen" to everything said by the Chief I Constable? ("No, no," and hear, hear.) It came to that at any rate. He admired the Chief Con- 1 'L _1_1 stable as much as anyoooy, out coum one man be right and nine other men wrong? Colonel WEST: They have not the experience of the Chief Constable. Mr ROBERTS: But they have in other spheres, and most of them are employers of labour. The Chief Constable has to thank his friends for all this. The CHIEF CONSTABLE: I have nothing to do with them. They are no more my friends than yours. Mr SIMON JONES (Wrexham) thought that the most gracious thing would be to withdraw the-motion (hear, hear). The carrying of a vote would not lead to very much. The discussion bfid been a fair one, and personally he would be satisfied with it. Mr GOMER ROBERTS said the representa- tives of the County Council were held to have done something wrong, and it was for the Coun- cil to say whether that was so or not. He could not withdraw the motion on that account. What- ever the decision of the Homo Office might bo, it was desirable to have the decision of the County Council, and that would be appreciated by their representative whichever way it went. On a division the resolution was passed by a large majority. fonr only voting igainst it. COUNTY RATE BASIS. It was resolved to authorise the clerk to take the necessary steps to have the county rate basis revised as early as possibly, and that in future it be so revised every two years. TRADESMEN'S DILLS. On the recommendation of 1h" Finance Com- mittee, it was decided to give all tradesmen and others interested notice that in future no claims for work performed or goods supplied will be entertained unless presented to the commilteo within the statutory period of six months. ABERGELE JOINT BURIAL COMMITTEE. Messrs George Bevan, J. M. Porter, J. T. Mill ward, and D. Mac. Nicoll were appointed a sub-committee to consider a letter from ftle Aber- gele^ Joint Burials Committee on the subject ef obtaining a portion of the garden at the Police Station, Abergele, for the purpose of widening the entrance to the burial ground adjoining the police station. ENTRANCE EXAMINATIONS TO COUNTY SCHOOLS. Attention having been called to the proposed increase in the elementary education rate which was due to a large extent to the fact of the average attendance at the elementary schools hav- ing decreased, and also that pupils are admitted to the County Schools who ought really to be re- ceiving their education in elementary schools, The Finance Committee now recommended that the County Council he recommended to suggest to the Joint Education Committee, who have now under consideration the general revision of the Denbighshire Intermediate Education Scheme, the advisability of making more string- ent provisions with regard to the entrance to in- termediate schools, either by raising the age limit or the standard of admission. The clause in the present scheme relating to entrance scholarships is as follows: "No appli- cant for admission shall be admitted to the school unless: (a) After passing an examination equivalent to the fifth standard, as fixed by the Code of Minutes of the Education Department in force for the time being, and conducted under the direction of the school governors, or (b) if a scholar in a public elementary school after reach- in- the said fifth standard." The recommendation was adopted. WIDENING OF MAIN ROADS FROM LLAN- SANTFFRAID TO LLANRWST. A letter, dated 31st August, was received (zom Mr R. Norton, Hendre Dwr. Tnk^?.fn^ t- ing that a short piece of the main road from, Llansantffraid to Llanrwst, which is so narrow that it is impossible for two large veVjrcles to pasa one another, approximately 100 ^rds long, tgo-*he north of Llansantff raid, widened., -ic was "re- solved that the sar^ f,e referred to the County Main Koad ^fveyor to report thereon, a £ tho next and also is to the portion of the mall:' road between CoIwyn Bay and Llanrwst. ■ ABERCELE AND COLWYN BAY MAIN ROADS- It was decided to adhere to the offer of JB210 made to the Abergele Urban Council for the maintenance of main roads within the district, the Urban Council having declined to reduce the estimate or probable expenditure on such roads. The subject of the claim of the Urban District Council of Colwyn Bay and Colwyn in respect of the maintenance, etc., of main roads for the year ended 31st of March, 1908, was referred to a sub- committee for consideration and report. LLANDDULAS PARISH COUNCIL. It was resolved, on consideration of the report of the county main roads surveyor, (a) that this Council is of opinion that the subject of the open ditch on the south side of the main road at Llanddulas is one to be dealt with by the Sani- tary Authority and not by the County Council. (b) That the subject of having a raised footpath on the north side of the main road from the Rectory gate over the bridge to the Station-road be referred to the County Main Roads Surveyor, with power to act.