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SUGGESTED BACON TACTORY for CARDIGAN. Highly instructive discussion AN EXPERT'S VIEW ON THE PROPOSAL, Mr. Loudon M. Douglas, one of the highest and best authorities in the country on the subject of Bacon Factories, their establishment and require- ments. attended, by appointment, a meeting of the Committee formed for the purpose of considering the proposal to establish a Factory at Cardigan. The meeting was held at the Angel Hotel, Cardigan, on Friday afternoon. The Mayor (Mr. C. Morgan- Richardson) presided, and there were present Capt. Jones Parry, Messrs T. Havard, Penally; D. S. Jones, Castle Malgwvn; and Mr. D. Ivor Evans, Netpool Farm. The absent members of the com- mittee were Col. Picton Evans, who was away in London, Mr. W. O. Brigstocke, of Blaenpant, who was unwell, and Messrs T. Evans, Llwyndurií8 and T. Hughes, Rhosygader. The Chairman introduced Mr, Douglas to the meeting, and said that he was prepared to answer .any questions they wished to put to him on the subject. The definite replies given by Mr. Douglas to the practical questions of the committee will prove of deep interest to farmers generally, and possibly they may profit by the information which is given. The farmers of the district most inter- -ested in the proposal ought certainly to take up the matter with enthusiasm. THE DISCUSSION*. The Chairman What supply of pigs would you authorise us to commence a factory ? Mr. Douglas: I think if you have 100 pigs a week as a minimum it would pay you very well. From this return, I see you are sending away from Cardigan an average of 124 a week, and I presume that is not the totiU number of pigs which are handled here. Mr. Havard These pigs are chiefly porkers. <Mr. Jones And the difficulty will be to get the farmers to keep their porkers until they are fit for the factory. The farmer finds it pays him to grow porkers, hut he is not so sure that it would pay him to grow bacon pigs. Mr. Douglas The porker weighs about 60lbs live weight, at from 3 to 4 months and Hie bacon pig dead weight would be from 9 to 10 score, say 1801bs. This would be a heavy bacon. In a light bacon pig the sides would weigh about 601b each; add 25 per cent for the offal, and the live weight would be about 2001b. This is the difference between live and dead weight. The price you, or the farmers, would .get on the pigs which you sent from this town every week is only on the dead weight; you do Dot get anything allowed for the offal. The bacon factory appropriates the offal. Mr. Jones Does the bacon factory give a higher price than the ordinary dealer ? Mr. Douglas The bacon factory would give you a price which would cover them if they have to pay carriage; and the dealer would cover himself if he pays the carriage. Mr. Jones At what do you value the offal ? Mr. Douglas The offal is worth from 4s to 5s, but the price varies in different districts. In some districts they make as much as 7s and 8s. Mr. Jones There is a person carrying on business in Cardigan now as a bacon curer. He deals with about 150 pigs in the season. He gets them in dead. Would it not answer to get them in dead for the factory ? The offal would be a consideration to many families. Mr Douglas: I would advice you not to start do- ing that. The offal would be the principal part of your profit. Besides if you bring in your pigs dead you must reckon on a loss of 10 per cent for bad curing, because the pigs brought in dead will not keep, and you must not handle them at all. You kill your pigs. take the offal away, chill them, cut them up after chilling, put them in your cellar, and the next time you see them they are bacon. Mr Jones: It will be necessary if we are to do any good that we should be in a position to con- vince the farmers that it will pay them to keep their porkers six weeks longer to make them fit for the Factory. Mr Douglas I am sorry that I have not the ex- act figures to give you, but you will find that this general statement is correct That in fattening a bacon pig it puts )-i more flesh during the last I cl fourteen days than during the rest of its life pro- vided of coursetliat it has proper food to convert into flesh. Tne Chairman That is also true in fattening a beast. Mr Douglas This fact seems to destroy at once any argument the farmers may useas to the greater value of the porker. Mr Jones In the case of a pig weighed by me at 151 score, the loss between live and dead weight was 451bs, and it appeared to me that the loss dim- inishes in proportion to the weight and thickness of the pig. Mr Douglas: That is so. Mr Jones: So that a loss of one-fourth was not strictly correct. The size of the pigs we are used to in this district runs from 14 to 18 score. Mr Ivor Evans: I saw one killed last winter weighing 35 score, and I killed one myself 28 score. Mr Douglas (laughingly) And what were they used for: Mr Ivor Evans: They were slung up on the beams. Mr Douglas: I think some of it must have keen rather unapproachable at age. In farm houses which I have visited, and where I am glad to say I have always been hospitality entertained, I very often been served with bacon of their own curing (knowing that I was interested in the matter), and I am bound to say that it was so salt that you could not taste anything else except salt. They could not could not. possibly cure it was not possible for them to chill it, or obtain that equable temperature which is necessary for it to take the salt. Mr Havard: Accepting the number of pigs at 100, there comes the question of capital. The Chairman: 1 have asked Mr Douglas that very question. To deal with 100 pigs a week it would be necessary under ordinary circumstances to provide £1,500, for buildings and equipment, and of course there would be further capital re- quired for working the Factory. Mr Douglas' opin- ion is that if we bad six weeks pigs at the rate of 100 a week, and, of the average value of 50s each, I we should require another Z1500 as working capital. This of course might be arranged after we bad started the Factory, as to the whole or in part, with the bankers, but it would be better to call in sufficient capital for the purpose. Mr Havard: We noticed that in the case of a Factory to deal with 50 pigs weekly, the capital outlay is put at £ 700, while a Factory a deal with 100 pigs weekly cost 9,1500, What is the reason for this difference ? Mr Douglas; The equipment of a 50 pig Factory WilM oe very much smaller. Your lard and sausage equipment in a 50-pig factory would be very small. You could only expect to develope these auxiliary branches of the factory by laying down adequate plant, and the price would expand according to the extra plant provided. The figures given were the tictual cost of such factories, and it is useless theorizing when you have the absolute data In front of you. The Chairman I think that you explained to me that if we fixed an equipment for 100 pigs there is no reason why we could not deal with 120 and even more. Besides our working expenses would not expand with the increase in the number of pigs killed. In fitting np a factory to deal with 100 pigs you have a different class of building, and a different class of machinery to consider than if you contemplated putting up a 50-pig factory. Mr. Douglas That is so. Mr. Jones Do you find much difference (if any at all) between the supply of bacon pigs in summer and winter ? I mention this because farmers have generally got through their corn by the time they have finished sowing, and they sell their pigs as porkers, keeping only a couple of bacon pigs for the winter. Mr. Douglas: The supply of pigs is pretty con- stant, but prices are always higher in summer. Mr. Jones That is where the farmer loes again. He has more pigs to sell when they are lowest in price. Mr. Havard: And prices rise again when pigs are scarce. Mr. Douglas That is the reason. The bacon factory will be independent of the weather, as you will have a refrigerating plant, and you will be able to cure your bacon summer and winter. Mr. Havard Then is it possible to get rid of the -offal of 100 pigs a week ? Mr. Douglas I should think there would be no difficulty in getting rid of it all here. My experience is that wherever the offal is for sale, there are always too many poor people ready to buy. Mr. Havard We have no poor people here. Mr. Douglas Really ? Mr. Havard Comparatively speaking. You are referring more particularly to the populations of the iron and coal districts. Mr. Douglas Not at all. I have in my mind a district, where there is a factory, which you might almost call aristocratic, where you can go for miles without meeting a poor person. That factory cannot supply sufficient offal to meet the demand. The friend of mine who built the factory there is dealing with over 100 pigs a week, and he is quite satisfied. He makes his money out of the offal. Tile Chairman And in Ireland, where every cottager has his pig, the factories cannot meet the demand for offal. Mr. Ivor Evans: In Cardigan at the present day I know that you cannot purchase it at any price after Thursday night. It is always sold out. The Chairman I think the factory would be a Godsend to the poor of the country. There arc portions which are sold as low as lid. per pound. Mr. Douglas The |backbones are sold at lid. each. Wherever I go, whether in Denmark, in Ireland, or in this country, whenever the backbones are taken out of the pigs, and it is usual to do so at certain fixed times, at that time you cannot get near the factory for the people who crowd round the offices or the gates of the Factory in order to purchase these bones. What you may think would be waste is not so. It is all sold. Mr. Havard: That is a very great point cleared up. We could not depend upon sending the offal away, although we have a steamer running to Bristol every week, because if kept a day or two it would become tainted. Mr Douglas: You could prevent it going bad, but offal is always best sold fresh, and the sooner you get it out of your sight and turned into money the better. Mr Havard The steamer would be useful to cut down railway rates, and besides, we could ship a great deal of our bacon by steamer. Mr Douglas: How long is the voyage to Bristol ? Mr Ivor Evans: About 18 hours. Mr Havard As regard water, you said something about a well ? Mr Douglas: The water is required for conden- sation in the machinery, but from what I have seen this morning, if you were to put your factory along side the quay you could easily deal with the salt water there, and run it back into the rivfcr. All that would be necessary for you to provide would be a copper condenser. The Chairman And that would mean a differ- ence in price of about P,50, which would be better than paying a special water rent. You would have all the water you required for nothing, and any quantity of it. Mr Douglas I suggest that you should sink a well along side the quay, so that your water would be partially filtered. It would still be brackish, but it would always be free from sediment, and clear. Capt. Jones Parry; The water question seems to be quite satisfactory. The Chairman: The men who have vested interests would no doubt do their best to oppose the scheme. Mr Douglas < If the industry can keep a dozen dealers going, it is time you were looking after it yourselves. Mr Havard Any question of prices would level itself down in a very short time. Capt. Jones Parry: How can we show the farm- ers that the bacon pig will pay them better than the porker ? Mr Jones And what would the bacon factory pay per score 7 Mr Douglas: The factories in Ireland are now paying 52s per cwt., or nearly 6dper pound. Mr Jones: The ruling price here is 7s 6d a score, or less than 41d per pound. Mr Douglas: Wherever there is a bacon factory it is the factory which rules the price. The price from day to day would be posted up on the black- board at your gates, and being in receipt of the wires from the markets you would regulate the prices accordingly, at so much per cwt., or so much per score, whichever way you decide to trade. Mr Jones Then there is the value of the offal. The Chairman That alone for 100 pigs at 4s each represents P-20 per week, and that alone would be sufficient to pay working expenses and dividend. Mr Jones But you must give more for the pigs if you get the offal. Mr Douglas Your dealer does not give you more if he buys your pig on foot. Mr Jones The dealers give 6s. 6d. a score for porkers. Mr Douglas That would be for a 601b. pig, and that is a very low price. Mr Havard We can buy pigs here at a lower price than that. Mr Douglas I am surprised to hear itt Mr Ivor Evans: They have been as low as 5s. 3d. and 5s. 6d. a score live weight. Capt. Jones Parry: I suppose the bulk of the pigs come from Pembrokeshire ? The Chairman No This return represents the pigs collected around Cardigan, and sent away from this station. Mr Ivor Evans The Pembrokeshire pigs are sent away chiefly from Cilgerran and Crymmycb. I y Capt. Jones Parry: Say swine fever broke out ? The Chairman In that case there is one advan- tage which the factory would have if the other counties were scheduled by the Board of Agri- culture. We should not be affected, but could turn our pigs into bacon without reference to the out- side markets. We have always had a clean bill of health in this respect in Cardiganshire. Capt. Jones Parry: That is a consideration. The Chairman Mr Douglas told me of a bacon factory at Selby where they were in a particularly good position for doing business on a large scale, and just as they were starting business the Board of Agriculture scheduled the whole district because an Irishman had allowed one Irish pig to get through affected. That was a great hardship, but such a thing is not likely to happen here. Mr Douglas: As to prices, the figures you give are very low. Mr Jones Well, they are the highest we get. Mr Douglas: I was speaking to a dealer who handles more porkers than anyone else in England, Mr George Burrows, who gets his supplies chiefly from Belgium and Holland, and he told me the other day that he was making 4i, and that for foreign supplies. Mr Jones: Then we cannot do as well as the foreign pig. Mr Douglas: And that price is got in Smithfield market. He sells to a man who buys 200 or 300 pigs, and he in turn has to make his profit out of the man who buys 10 pigs, and he also makes a profit again out of the unfortunate consumers. Mr Jones: There are four or five young fellows doing business in this district, and so far as I can see they do very well. They would be able to increase the price without losing a halfpenny. Mr Douglas If any one uses the argument that the porker pays better than the bacon pig, or if you find incorrect statements are being circulated, you could publish statistics to show what these pigs actually make. The Chairman: Mr Jones points out that the dealer may raise their prices without loss to them- selves. Mr Douglas The bacon factory will not buv porkers at all. They will give, say, 50s. for the pig, or at the rate of so much per score. Perhaps they can give 54s. for the pig. whereas you state that you are only now getting 30s. You know the number of weeks you have to keep the porker to fatten him, and the value of the barley meal and separated milk required, so that you can easily calculate the difference in value for yourselves. Mr Jones That is the dearest time of the pig. Mr Douglas And that. is the time when he grows fastest, and is converted into bacon. The Chairman We have to prove that the bacon pig is (1) profitable from the farmer's point of view; (2) profitable from a financial point of view; and (3) profitable to the district. We know that I the people of the district will benefit, because they will have the advantage of buying the offal and bye-products of the factory and from a financial point of view such factories always do succeed where the conditions are favourable. The last point is whether the bacon pig is favourable from a farmer's point of view, Mr. Douglas: There is no difficulty in making a Bacon Factory pay provided you are not interfered with by the Board of Agriculture. An occurrence such as that mentioned might not happen again once in a thousand years. Besides you would not be likely to experience such interference because you would not import pigs. Mr. Jones I was talking to one of the biggest tradesmen in the town this morning, one who handles probably more bacon than anyone else. He deals with a great many factories, some of which he said are doing well, while others are struggling to succeed, and the question which he asked was could we guarantee the quality of our bacon, and unless we could do that, it would be no use trying." Mr. Douglas: You can answer that by saying that you purpose putting in the best appliances in your factory, and bacon curing is not so much a question of skill, as a question of having a properly equipped establishmeut. At one time it was purely a question of skill, because there were no appliances. lIt is now to a large extent mechanical. You want a certain amount of intelligence behind the mechanics, but not to the same extent as formerly. Mr. Ivor Evans Has not the feeding of pigs a lot to do with the quality of the bacon. Mr. Douglas: Yes, certainly. Mr. Ivor Evans In England, there are pig farms on which the pigs are turned out to graze in the fields Mr. Douglas: Yes, and they are the best paying farms in England. Mr. Ivor Evans: And the pigs make good bacon ? Mr. Douglas: Yes. And for this reason. If you let the pigs run in the fields, the muscles which you eat get fully developed and hard. Potatoes are thrown down to the pigs, but they are not brought into the sty until they are to be fattened. It is usual to keep them there then for about a fortnight on barley meal and separated milk. Mr Havard: In the feeding of their pigs our farmers are good honest people. Most of them use barley and skimmed milk, and the pigs of the dis- trict would make remarkably good bacon. equal to the best that can be got. I suppose the Irish pig would not be so well fed ? Mr Douglas: They are fed mostly on potatoes. Mr Ivor Evans: Maize meal is used a good deal. Mr Douglas Maize meal alone is bad. Mr Ivor Evans But it fattens quicker. Give one lot of pigs boiled Indian meal, and another lot barley meal, you would find the former fatten quicker.. Mr Douglas: At the same time maize meal must be used with a great deal of discretion. About half of maize meal to half barley meal has been ascer- tained to be a safe food to use along with separated milk. The Chairman How are we to regulate the feed- ing of the pigs supplied to the factory ? Suppose I fatten my pigs on maize meal, and my neighbour fattens his on barley meal, how can you distinguish between the two ? Mr Douglas Your character will be written down in the bacon book. Every pig you sell will be entered, its weight, its price, the day it was put into salt, the days it was left in salt, and the history of the sale. All these facts are brought out at the end, and if your bacon proves oily, you would be told of it, and you would be watched in the future. You can tell at once if a pig comes from a suspected source, because its owner would probably be there to see it weighed, and to see that he got the full value of his pig. The Chairman: Assume that 10 pigs are brought to the factory which you suspect have been fed on maize meal, and the owner claims to be paid the current price, which was more than the pigs were worth, how would you deal with them ? Mr Douglas: If suspected, the owner would not be paid until the pigs were cold, when the manager would be able to say whether the pigs were right or not. The Chairman: I presume we should have this option by the rules of the factory ? Mr Douglas: Yes, certainly. If sent away to Harris' or any other factory, the price would be docked for inferior pigs. Cqpt. Jones Parry: Don't you think that would be a weak point ? If a farmer gets a black mark against his name he would not send his pigs at al to the factory. Mr Douglas: If the farmer wants to trade honestly there would be no trouble in that way. Capt. Jones Parry: That point has been a diffi- cult one to deal with in connection with the creameries. The farmers say it is all right until someone comes along with a glass of milk, and says this quality is not good enough, and so on. Mr Douglas: It is rather different with the creamery. When a creamery is established in the centre of a district the farmer is bound to send his milk there, as very few farmers have their own separators, and the old-fashioned way of separating milk is very costly. The farmers are very much at the mercy of the creamery, but they would not be at the mercy of the bacon factory. If they can make a better price by sending their pigs away, they can do so. Capt. Jones Parry: But the same difficulty may arise directly you begin to say-" Now, your pig is not fed in the way in which we should like it to be fed, and therefore we cannot give you so good a price." The Chairman It is a fair simile. The quality of a farmer's milk may be poor because his cows are fed on inferior land, and may not be due to added water; whereas a farmer would know whether he had fed his pig on maize meal or barley meal. Mr Douglas If the factory were at the mercy of shippers who import pigs from a long distance, and whose origin could not be trusted, then you might get a lot of soft" pigs, but in a farmers factory it is totally different; every man's pigs can be recorded. Mr Jones In a district like this do you think we should find inferior pigs ? Mr Douglas If they are inferior it is because the feeding is inferior, and it would be the duty of the directors of the factory to notify the farmer whose pigs were inferior, and tell him that he must alter his mode of feeding, and in his own interests this ought to be done. Mr Havard: It would be the great exception to find pigs of an inferior quality here. Mr Jones: I think so too, as they are fed on home grown barley. Mr Ivor Evans: In a district I was in formerly the pigs were fed on swedes. I remember an instance in which there were four pigs on a farm near to me which were fed on swedes. They looked a treat; there was no mistake about it. I had a couple of pigs at same time, smaller in appearance, but fed in the ordinary way. When killed my pigs weighed two score more than the others. The Chairman It would I think be advisable to send out circulars among the farmers with infor- mation as to the best and most profitable mode of eding pigs. Mr Douglas: That is usually done by the bacon factories. It would be time enough to issue such a circular when you have started your factoy. The Chairman: What would be the average price given at the bacon factory during the year. z, Mr Douglas: About 45s per cwt dead weight. Mr Jones How does that work out at live weight, by the score. The Chairman: What do you get for your bacon pig in the market now. Mr Jones: If you can sell, the highest price would be about 6s 6d a score, live weight. Mr Ivor Evans: A nine score pig would only realize at the factory about £ 2 10s Od I understand. Mr Douglas: At present prices should realize about P,3 3s Od. Mr Ivor Evans: Is not that very low ? Mr Douglas: I see by the Western Mail market reports that porkers are quoted at Newport, Mon., at 9s 6d and 10s a score, and bacon at Hereford at 5d. Mr Havard: Would there be any difficulty in selling the bacon ? Mr Douglas: No. If you wanted to sell the bacon in London I could find you a trader who would take the whole lot you could produce pro- vided the quality was right. The Chairman: Then as to the form of curing? Mr Douglas If you are making bacon only you would sell the whole side. If youare going to cure hams you would have three-quarter sides, or fore- ends and middles; or you could make rolls of three-quarter sides. All these things you would have to leave to your manager, who would adapt the trade to what would suit you best. Mr Havard: The nearer we can sell the bacon the more profitable the business will be. That is one great advantage we .have in being within reach of the Glamorganshire mining districts. The Chairman Is there a demand there for mild cured bacon ? Mr Havard It is all mild now. The Chairman: As we shall be holding a public meeting on the question, it is necessary that we should be able to answer the question. Is it more profitable to grow bacon pigs rather than porkers ? We want the figures to show that it is more profit- able. Mr. Douglas: What is the price to-day of your porkers ? Mr. Jones 6s 6d per score live weight. Mr. Douglas: And if you wanted to buy or sell bacon pigs, what is the price ? Mr. Ivor Evans 7s or 7s 3d dead weight. We do not sell the bacon pig on his legs in this part of the country, but dead. Mr. Douglas: The bacon factory would not take them like that. Mr: Ivor Evans: Sometimes the seller has the head as well as the offal. Mr. Douglas: If anyone wanted the offal they could get it from the factory. I take it the price the bacon pig is 7s per score, inclusive of head and feet, but without offal. Mr. Ivor Evans Yes. Mr. Jones: What size pigs would the factory require ? Mr. Douglas: From 9 to 10 score. It does not pay you to feed pigs above 10 score. Above that weight you do not get value for your food. To enable me to answer your question as to the value of the porker and bacon pig. I want your fair average price for each. Mr. Havard: 5s 6d or 6s would be a fair average for porkers. Mr. Ivor Evans: 6s would be a high average. Iror bacon pigs dead weight, the average for pigs from 10 to 15 score would be 7s 6d. The Chairman: On the question of the supply I think we are agreed. The average shewn on this return only represent Cardigan within 3 miles there is Cilgerran, within 8 miles Crymmych, each place sending away as large a number while there la a large supply Jin Newcastle Emlyn district, within a ten miles radius there is a total supply of from 500 pigs a week, and the existence of a bacon factory would encourage the industry. As to the supply of water, we are told that we can use the salt water, and condense it, and it is important that we should get near the quay, so as to secure facilities for sending away the products of the factory by boat. Mr. Douglas advises us to begin simply, in a small way. The machinery could be removed into bigger buildings if we found it worth our while. If we get machinery to deal with 100 pigs a week, it is quite possible for the business to expand to 150 pigs a week on the same premises, and with the same machinery. The cheapest way to begin would be to adapt existing premises for the purposes of the factory. Mr. Jones Would not a factory to deal with 50 pigs a week be sufficient to start with ? Mr, Douglas I do not think so. Your manage- ment charges would be the same, and you would only require an extra labourer to deal with 100 pigs. The Chairman I went round the town this morn- ing with Mr. Douglas, and we fixed upon certain premises which we thought if we could obtain them cheap, we might adapt for the purpose. Curiously enough, the premises belong to a member of this committee—Capt. Jones Parry. The premises are near to the river, and almost adjoin the "Sea- flower" quay, and it would be quite possible to lay down a line of rail connecting the premises with the quay, so that the bacon could be trucked direct from the factory to the boat. We should not incur great expense in altering the premises to suit our purpose. On the assumption that we propose to deal with 100 pigs a week, it would be necessary to spend upon the buildings and machinery something like £ 1,500, We should require extra capital for working expenses, and to enable us to pay cash to the farmers for the first few weeks. This might be arranged with our Bankers, but it would be better to have the capital. As regards working expenses, we have made out the total not to exceed EIO a week, allowing P,3 a week for a manager, 35s a week for a curer, with 3 labourers, and a handy man to look after the engine, and also a clerk. Mr. Havard Is it difficult to get a manager? Mr. Douglas It is not easy. At the same time I won't describe it as difficult. If you will take ray recommendation I would endeavour to get you such a man as I know could be relied upon. A great deal depends upon your obtaining a reliable man as manager. Mr. Jones How are these factories carried on ? Mr. Douglas: They are usually ordinary Joint Stock Companies. Mr. Jones Instead of being taken up by a few, the farmers who intend to grow the pigs for the factory should take shares. Mr. Douglas: It is considered that they will do so, even if they only take a few shares, so long as they take a personal interest in the factory, you may rely upon it they will look after its interests. Each man becomes a partner in the concern, and whether they hold 5, 50, or 500 shares, it is just the same. The Chairman If we put our money down it must be on the condition that so many farmers take so many shares between them. Then we might have a farmers' Board of Management. One thing has been suggested, and it is that the dividend should be limited to 5 percent, and whatever profit is made above that sum should be divided by way of bonus amongst the farmers who supply the pigs. These points might be considered at a farmers' meeting. Mr. Douglas The farmer by doing this would be fortified against the dealer. If the dealer tries to influence him he can say that he is a shareholder in the factory, and sends his pigs there. Capt. Jones Parry You have not mentioned the other expenses of the factory—fuel, salt, and chemicals. Mr Douglas: You would require about three cwt. of coal per week, so that the cost of fuel is almost nominal. As to salt, say you dealt with 200 sides of bacon a week, each side would require about one lb of salt, whilst 5s would keep you in sufficient chemicals for about two months. Mr Havard: The working expenses would run about 2s per pig. Mr Douglas: Call it 2s 6d per pig. You will be astonished to know that the cost of working some factories and businesses that pay run from 15s to, 16s per pig. Mr Havard: In your article in the R.A.S. Journal you referred to Cardiff, Swansea, and other large centres as suitable places for factories. If we fail to start a factory here, do you think a syn- dicate might run a factory successfully in any of those centres. Mr Douglas You want to have a certain amount of local knowledge to carry on a bacon factory. If you cannot get the people in your own locality to support you, I would not advise you to go abroad. If you were to succeed here. and then asked me the question, I might tell you differently. Mr Jones: Is a buyer necessary ? Mr Douglas: Some of the factories employ them, but if you get your supply from the farmers around, you do not need a buyer. So far as your questions are concerned, I will embody them in a letter to your Chairman, with my views. A heai vote of thanks to Mr Douglas for his attentioi, 10 the many questions put to him, was given on lie motion of the Mayor, seconded by Mr Ivor Evans, and the meeting terminated.