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fnterestir^ Address by Mr.…

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fnterestir^ Address by Mr. Forestier 1 Walker. IMPORTANT POINTS EXPLAINED. I On Wednesday evening in last ivee k Mr Leolin Forestier-Walker, M.P., gave an interest- ing address on the housing question, before a meeting of the Abergavenny Social Study Circle, at the Y.M.C.A. Hall. Mr. R. F. Thnrtle pre sided owr >1 ^mnll attendance, including several members ot local bodies. The Object of the Circle. I The CFirn',m said they were highly honoured in being able to open their winter session with an address by their ,itting Member of Parliament. The Social Study Circle were not a l?r?e body, and perhaps not an influential body, and he feared it might be said that they were not a popular body. In fact he was afraid that in the minds of those who did not give them any con- sideration at all they had been classed as either cranks or revolutionaries, but really they were not so bad as they had been painted. The Circle was formed two years ago by an earnest body of men and women who saw the desirability of meeting together to discuss burning social problems and expressing their views upon them, with a view to getting a deeper and wider under standing of them. Their motto, if they had one. might be the primeval one of Let there be light." They had maintained their numbers and had spread a considerable amount of light without generating any considerable heat. There was one direction in which they had signally failed and in which they had hoped to succeed. His idea, and the idea of a good many of them, was that they should get into their Study Circle men holding all shades of opinion on matters political, industrial and religious, so that they would learn the other fellow's point of view and learn toleration and respect for those from whom they differed. He hoped that no one would allow prejudice to keep them outside their ranks, but would join them to help to shatter this sorry scheme of things entire and remouU it nearer to the heart's desire." Up To The Local Authorities. J Mr. Forestier-Walker, who had a hearty re- ception, said the housing question had been with them for years, but formerly it was more a question of getting rid of old houses than of building new ones. Since the war tne urgency of the nousing problem had become ten times greater. Before the war about go,000 houses were built every year in this country, and as these had not been built during the past five years there was a shortage of 450,000. Man\ houses would have been condemned but for the fact that they could not turn the people out on the road. No Government had ever done more in three years than the present Government had done in one. As far as Acts cf Parliament were concerned, nothing had ever been seen li^e it in that country. They had passed a Housing Bill, and it waj up to the local authorities to see that it was carried through. He did not know whether they were satisfied with what had been done in Aoergavenny. He noticed that they had submitted a site of 29 acres and that it had been approved. Some people thought that everything could be done at once, but they should realise the difficulties that had to be overcome. Having acquired their site and got it approved, they had to apply for a loan, and if they were wise they would invite local people, by advertisement, to lend their money. If thev got no reply they then applied to the Loans Commissioners, who would lend the monev, if they had the approval of the Ministry of Health. In his district they had got the money lent at 5-V per cent. Next they had to get their lay-out plans and submit them for approval. Then they had to get sanction for a loan for the streets and sewers, and afterwards to submit the house plans for approval. They could start work on the sewers and streets. The next thing was to ask for tenders. They could not apply for the money until they knew what the houses were going to cost. Wooden Bu^lows. I He was rather afraid of what the cost would be, and he was trying to see if some other kind of house could be built, other than brick. He had lived for some years abroad in a bungalow, which was as dry and comfortable as any house in England. lie was told tne other day by a Commissioner that these wooden holes' would not do in England, because they would rot stand the wet. lie had lived in a bungalow where they used to get about 220 inches of rainfal whereas the average rainfall in Monmouthshire was aboat 45 inches. During the day the heat was about 90 in the shade, and at night thev might get about five degrees of frost. If wooden houses would stand that rainfall and that difference in temperature, which they would not find possible in this country, they ought to be good enough for our purposes. The only diffi- culty, to his mind, was t:l:' question of timber. He was going to suggest to Dr. Addison next week that he should get a lot of Australian hard- wood, such as was used in the streets of London, and which was as hard as iron and would last for years. If they could get a lot of that timber it would be a great saving in the cost of building. Proceeding, Mr. Forestier-Walker said that if a local authority did not have its scheme prepared before July, 1922, thev would not get the financial assistance promised, but if thev did the assistance they would receive would be a subsidy over and above the id. rate. After seven years a valuation would be made, and how- it was going to turn out no one knew, but it was obvious that ::o local authority could let tneir houses at an economic rent, and a good deal of the cost would have to be wiped off. All thev could do was to wait and see what would happen after tne seven years was up. Some people said it was a rotten scheme, but it was no use meeting trouble half way. \Ve had to have the houses, and the country had to pay for them. (Hear, hear}. He Was not worrying, but he was' per- fectly convinced that it could not be done unless the Treasury did assist them, All it would cost them as ratepayers was id. rate for seven years, and anything bove that would be found bv the Treasury. Local authorities had power to ac- quire land compulsorily and to deal with slum areas. They had the power to buy at a value as if the site did not contain any houses at all. They would be able to sell portions of land for building purposes, either houses, factories, e- -ier houses, factor i es,, churches, or developing a building estate. t'$ The Question of the Rent. I The question of the rent was rather a ticklish question, and a good many people were asking what rent was to be paid. The only answer he could give was that it was to be as high as possible. (Laughter). The Government did rot expect to get an economic rent. They said to the local authorities that they must get as reasonable a rent as they could, taking into account the rent of similar houses in the neigh- bourhood. The greatest number of houses per acre under any scheme was to be 12, and manv of the we re for eight per acre. There- fore it would be reasonable to expect more rent, because there would be more ground to the houses. Then there was the question of public utility societies. The local authorities could aid them, or any seven of them could form them- selves into, a public utility society for the purpose of building houses, and provided their scheme was sanctioned they would get a loan of 75 per cent. of the value of the land and the cost of the development, aud they would also get 30 per cent., or one-third, annual subsidy on tl18 loan charges. If there were any people who wanted he should advise them to form a public utility society for the purpose. Thtv would be treated in the same way as a public authority. They possibly might be able to buikl cheaper than a local autuority, and they would have the same opportunity of buying their house if thev were built by the local authority, but he could not imagine anyone wanting to buy a house at tllé price they were to be. The local authority could, however, sell them, and the payment could be made by instalments. The Housing Act, if taken up in the right spirit by the local authorities and by the people, was going to help very considerably the house shortage in this country. Whether they would be able -to do it as soon as they wanted to was another matter. So much depended upon the local authorities themselves. Up to the 20th of September 4,840 schemes had been submitted to the Ministry of Health, comprising about 45,000 acres. If they put 10 houses to the acre it meant 450,000 houses. The schemes approved numbered 1,500, and 543 house plans had been submitted, of which the plans in respect of 20,000 houses had been approved. Under the scheme they had not done so badly. Nearly half a million houses had been submitted under the scheme, but of course they had to go a long way ore submission and final approval, and hebe would suggest that patience was necessary. The whole- world seemed to waht everything done in five minutes, and it could not be done. They had not the materials, the men or the money, and they would have to go quietly bit by hit. The more they could produce, the better able they would oe to cope with the matter. The housing question was going to be solved if only the nation would give it half a chance, and give those in a responsible position time to be able to do it. (Applause). Questions ami Answers. I Questions were invited, and Mr. T. R. Wall said that the number of schemes submitted was larg, aii(i the acccpte(i siiiall. How long would it take before the people got the 300,000. or 400,000 houses necessary ? Mr. Forestier-Walker said that he was not the Housing Commissioner nor the Ministry of Health, and it was quite impossible to say when the houses would be put up. He was only interested in seeing that the local authorities jogged along in order that the houses might be put up. At St. Mellons they had nine schemes, and they were all approved, the lay-out was approved, and they were now asking for tenders for 126 houses, so they were ahead of Aberga- venny. There were some 6,000 houses erected in the country. Mr. Wall said they were told that the cost of the houses at Abergavenny would The (6oo. If they paid 5 per cent. interest that would bring them to ios. per week Tent. How could they let them at that rent ? Mr. Forestier-Walker said that the interest on the capital outlay would amount to a large rent. Supposing the interest amounted to lr per week, and houses of a similar character in the vicinity were let at ios. per week, the local authority would let them at ios. If the house had granter amenities they might possibly charge i is. All they could ask was a reasonable rent such as was paid for houses of a similar character in the vicinity. The difference in the rent and the amount paid in interest was found by the Treasury if it was over and above a id. rate. Mr. Dodd Where is ic poor man going to get 10s. per week to pay for a house ? There is not a poor man in Abergavenny can do it. Mr. Forestier-Walker said that the local authority had to use their common sense and get a reasonable rent, and a good deal depended on the locality. In the St. Mellons rural district the houses were is. 6d. to 3s. 6d. per week, but similar houses would be dearer in a town. Mr. S. G. Williams asked if the public utility societies had the power to acquire land. Mr. Forestitr-Walker No, but the local authority can do it for them. Councillor Rosser asked if Mr. Forestier- Walker knew of any scheme in the county being held up through the indecision of the Govern- ment on the finance side of the Housing Act. They at Abergavenny had their lay-out all com- pleted, and he believed that at the present time it was being held up for approval- In order to get to business they had to get possession of the land, and they could not do that until they got possession of the money. They had failed to get the money locally. Mr. Forestier-Walker had instructed them what to do, and he had no doubt that it would be done. He would like to know if Mr. Walker knew whether the wheels of progress had been scotched through the failure of the Government to give definite assistance in providing hard cash so that they could get on with the work. Mr. Forestier-Walker said it was quite possible that it might be so, but he could not say. His own personal experience was that their schemes were sanctioned and the Loans Commissioners were going to lend the money at 51 per cent. No one had complained to him about being held up owing to not being able to get the money. Councillor Beckwith said that they had been held back perhaps because they had not had as much confidence in the Government as they should have had. Personally he had always held that the Government would keep their promise to assist them. He was living in hopes of seeing a garden city in Abergavenny where they could bring up their children with credit to their day and generation. Down on the Government." I Mr. Wall asked a number of questions, com- menting adversely on the Government. Mr. Forestier-Walker replied that Mr. Wall seemed to be a little down on the Government. Whether it was prejudice he did not know, but the delay might not be due to the Government. Many authorities had not yet sent in their schemes. Some people thought that nationalisa- tion would be a good thing. Take housing. There were nine sets of most intricate forms to be filled up. A private individual could settle it in half the time on half a sheet of notepaper, but when they came to deal with. public money it was a different matter. The public had to be safeguarded in every way, and delays were bound to take place when they had to deal with a nationalised scheme. Mr. Wall continued to persist with questions and speeches, and referring to the wooden houses suggested said that they were not fit for heroes to live in. The houses must be well built. Mr. Forestier-Walker said that the speaker did not know anything about a bungalow, and had never lived in one as he had. He was not speaking of Army huts. The bungalow he suggested was comfortable and roomy and was fit for a king to live in. In the course of further replies to Mr. Wall, Mr. Forestier-Walker remarked Mr. Wall must not make my arguments for me. I can do that quite well myself. I may not be the propew Member for this Division, but I am not the rag- doll that some people think me." Mr. Wall I am glad to see that the ginger I applied the other day has had its effect. Councillor Rosser This is not a political meeting, and it is not proper that we should have such twaddle as this. I strongly protest against it and I shall not be a party to it. It is quite unbecoming of us as a town to descend to such a low level. (Hear, hear). Mr. Jas. Harrison, in proposing a vote of thanks to Mr. Forestier-Walker for his address, said that if there was a loss on the building of the houses and it had to be made good by the taxpayer it was penalising the thrifty man who had provided his own house by making him pay towards houses for other people who were quite able to provide them for themsel ves. Mr. W. Devereux seconded the vote of thanks, Mr. Wall supported, and the proposition was carried with acclamation. ———— +

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