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- MISS DOUGLAS PMMT IN THE…

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MISS DOUGLAS PENNANT; IN THE WITNESS BOX. STRINGENT CROSS-EXAMINATION. ALLEGATIONS OF IMMORALITY IN i- W.R.A.F. CAMPS. The committee antcd to inquire into <ha causes w hioh k-d to thc dismissal the Hon. Violet Douglas Pennant from the Women's ftoyaA Air Force held its fourth ;;iUi!g at, the Uow.e of Lords on Friday. Lord Wrenfeury presided. Tho appearances were. a3> fallows: iVJiss Violet Douglw Pennant, repre- sented by Mr Hawke, K.C, Mr Stuart Be van, K.C., atid Mr J. Buchanan (soli- citors, Messrs Coward, Hawksioy, and The Air Ministry. represented by the At! orney-General (Sir t». Hewart, K.C }, f Ir ltigby SWIft, KG., Mr G. A. Branson, instructed hy the Treasury solicitor. Genera S'r W. A. Brancker, represented by hi? &?!tnt.or, S'f Charlcs R?-.?H- Mr W. C Borsey, r?rcacntcd by Mr NlrAN'. (-1'.crsey, re,, Ca.r- ?)<!? solicitors, btmimnt and "Simmons; Licuto:iant-C^o«et S. J?mon. Repre- sented by Mr Curtis Dennett, K.C' and 'Mr Tristrn" Berosford (solicitor?, Keu- ^j m-ih Drown and Co.). Miss G wen da M. Gltibb. represented by Mr Har11 Morri (solicitors, Nte;sri Hyde, Mali-wi ItItd Pascal!). Aliss V. Leonard wd Major Cockburn ap|x.ar in person. FRtMY S SITTING. >10RE ABOUT THE HURST PARK REPORT. At Friday's sitting Miss Douglas Pen, l Iiant resuuiod feer evidence regarding m- ;1dellh which oemirod w hen she wao Com- tuundaut cf the W.R.A.F. Mr Stuart Beran* K.C. You have said that you were concerned with the state ot tilings tit the Hurst Park Depot? Miss VouI": Pennant: 1 was. I think Mra Mwidleton Kitto was tho officer in charge, and the matter was iett after vou had reported to Colonel Powell that nothing further could be done until Mrs K itio's return?—I said we had better 1 get her facts. You were uitmissed on August 28th?—I .was. I On August 29th uid Mrs Kitto come I back?—I saw her On August 28th Imme- ] diatcly after my dismissal. I | Did you see Mrs Kitto on her return?— 1 did. She made a report verbally. I Jt was a "po1"t in connection with the matters or some of then, set out on page 9 of youi statement, of case. On August 29th did you take Mrs Middle ton Kitto to see somebody?—I did not take her to see t anybody. Sho came to soe mc. As I had lieen dismissed I was done with it. It was Colonel Powell who saw her with me. Did you go and bee General Brancker ?— Colonel Powotl told mo that General Brancker wanted mo to go along on the i. 29th. 0,1 tho 29th I saw Colonel Powell. Was this Hurst Park matter discussed between you? Did you put General Br r.ncker in possession of th.) main facts re",sorted to you by Mrs Kitto?—Yes. There is an officer's tame mentioned in this part of the CIW'? Did Genera.! Brancker say anything about that officer? ,ITtt did Simply as to his degree of acquaintance w tli h:tn ?--Hi-- did. In what terms did. ho refer to hfrn ?—He Jcferred to him as "my old friend." .1 ATTEMPTS TO OBTAIN AN INQUIRY. Mr Stuart Be van then directed the atten- tion of Miss Douglas Pennant to various letters contained in tlie published corre- *pomderice retattng .to the termination of her appointment. Counsel tead some of th krp The f. rst one was addressed to Lord AVer on September 2nd, 1918. and in it fis Douglas Perfnant claimed an inquiry. She aho wrote to tho Prime Minister. On September 6tlt Lord Weir replied that lie had definitely rotne to the conclusion that she would not be successful in solving tho difficulties which confronted her in tht, establishment of the W. R.A.F.. and -in particular in obtaining a sympathetic co-operation of the other women's organi- sations. He added bhat he felt no good > ..would result lo ainone by the institution. 'of an inquiry. On Ootober 22!1d the Secre- tary to the Prime Minister wrote that he had asked Mr (!ocli f-larriiiy,-c)rth to hold .an in juiry. Olt February 12th. 1919. she Cien.cral 8eely. the Under-Secretary I;t,ate along with Colonel W. A -hiey Lord H. Cavendish-Tieuiinck. She iufoiir.ed by General Seely that the jra.=i0n for her Mipers^sjion was that Sir dodtiey' Paino had iuformeit Lord Weir l)ia4 slie was inc«|»sWo of doing the work pf Commandant of the W.ll.A.F. The interview iaa?d two houra. Genera! Seely tit_I ration would be given lifr ?tt, (nr.;i,ffe io her reqtiest ff,)r i" ir.?litir Y. In Aliril, 1919. fehe wrote. to Mr Churchill, the Secretary for State for the H. A. F.. regarding hec i-,mlitest-for an inquiry. In it she stated that.until she wad dismi sed (■ he waa opposed 'by a "trong and wc-ll- oi-ganised faction." The letter, which counsel read, proceeded "The charge I make and propose to substantiate is flisi I was dismissed as the direct restuH of a successful intrigue. iwovemr^f. against me procec<led not only from wdhitt but from outside the A. r. The eifwertce of such a move- ment, if it u to be «ttcce<sful, is secrecy, olod only a full in-tuiry, can disclose how fir it ettondad end the complote list of those concerned in it. But I say Mtd hio|k>so to t'siablish- <1) That amooj wliose in the W.R.A.F. took- a loading part in the movement have described and for the reasons I :tune given, were General Livingstone and LieHtennnt-Colonel Uersey. j (2) That amonj those, outside the (W.R.A.F. wh > promoted and encouraged tlie movement was Dame Katlwrine Furse. j (3) That Lieutenant-Colonel IVrsey found a ready coadjutor in Dame Kathe- i xine Fur. (4) That Tlame Katherine I'lirse endeav- ourerl to untlertnin^ my position as Com- mandant with Mnjor-General Sir (Jrxlfroy Master-General of Persotiriei, •• R.A.F., and hi/ll lIuooessor. Major-General !■ Sir W. S Itrancker, irnmediately 011 the lattor becoming Master-General of Per- aonnel. (5) That my pOaiU<>n as Commandant. the manner in -which I performed my 1 duties and my altegod uusuitabilitv for •S -the post were the subject of communica- tions from Danrto Katherine Furse to Sir 'Auckland Gedde*. ] (6) That upon representations made by < 81111 under presstire from Dame Katherine •J?'ur?o and others. Sir Auckland Geddes J ccmmun icatod with Lord Weir upon the ■ aubject of my office and duties. (7; That. & result, Lord Weir, acting j under the influence and pressure exerted j.. by Sir Auckland Geddes. and not at his own wish or acting upon his own initiative, dtamisaAd mft (ft) That ttio decision under which I was iliimisswl was not that of Lord Weir. or im not tÀ& 4o4W"M decision of Lord Weir. feat mm h dbcision of Sir Auck-  GeA? ? w? .r"¡lt &t 01 I?rd wpn? <h? (¡dioos or adviv of Sir  r.?kland Gs,Tbat Sir Atickl" i Geddes had 1.:0 personal knowledge either of iiiv or iiiy onving to t-lie fact that I never had sny official dealings with his Depamneut during the time that I was Commandant of the .W.R.A.F. Mr Stuart Ilevan. That was the ease you submitted to Mr Churchill in April, 1919. It is a part of the case which you place before the Committee to-day ? Miss Douglas Pennant: Yes. This concluded the examination-in-chief. CROSS EXAMINATION. A1.LEGATIONS OF INTRIGUE AND DISTRUST. Mr Itigoy Swift, K.C. for the Air Ministry, said that counsel for that De- partment understood that the case was that Miss Doug-las Pennant was dismissed by Lord Weir either for no cause or for cruises brought. about by the con-piracy pf certain persons. l'hey considered it was not their duty to cross-examine m regard to most of the I)ct;,ior, w ho were repre- sented by counsel. So far as persons men- tioned in the evidence were not so repre- sented, they reserved the right to call them at the appropriate time and let thelll tell their own story. 'lho Chairman pointed out that there might be cross-examination of Miss Doug- las Pennant with regard to them. Mr Rigby £ wift: That would invohe a trcTnciidous amount c,f tliiic. Th « Chairman Nobody disputes j hlt Miss Dougias Pennant had very con-ider- difficulty. As t6 this story of hous- ing and unito'ins it doc, not impress me a.. l,e i? anything more than the general history of tho diiffculties which she has h.'td to combat Here the gl,t of the ca?p is that in th> supersession of this senior o:Ti"^r—I do not think dismissal is the appropriate word—I.ord Weir at-t-d with- out proper motives. I do not think that; a I deal of what s he had to overcome is re- I levant. If you arc to prove any facts in- consistent wi'h what Miss Douglas Pen- nant has said, you have to cross-examine. DISMISSAL OR SUPERSESSION. Mr Rigby Swift then began lis cross- examination. 'He y-ked the witness—Do you know that yu were superseded on tho instructions of Lord NVeir.1 Mijs Douglas Pennant: Dismissed on the instructions of Lord Weir. 1 will accept your word. Do you say your supersession or dismissal was brought about by a conspiracy?—I do. but I would like to say that I utdersta-u. l that the word "conspiracy" has a legal meaning. I mean the ?ord "intrigue" rather Ytan conspiracy. a b out by Do you mean it wM brought about by tho intrigue of ? number of ppr.?on? who wanted and tried to get rid of you?—I do. Do you allege Coloriel Betsey was a party to that intrigue?-! do. That Mrs Beatty was a party ?—I do. And General Livingstone was a party ? —I do. Do you say General P.raiukcr was a party to it --Ido. And Colonel Latimer?—It is difficult for m" to say that about Colonel Latimer. Tho Uhairman: Y va do not allege it then ? Miss Douglas Pennant: No. THE "INTRIGUE." Mr Rigby Swift; But you did a'!eg'c it in your petition. Y'ou charge ("o,onet Latimer with hf\ing given an order with tho hope of compelling you to rc:ign?—I And you ray Jw R-u 14rtv to this in- trigue against you?—CevUiuiy, but I do not imagine that lie was In communica- tion with the others. Th • C'ha; rman; I understood you to say that he was not a party to the I did not imagine he was mtriguing with Dame Furse. k You think that Col on el Livingstone wanted to get you in < corner?—1 do. And you allege that Miss Andrew was a party to it?—Certainly, I do. Arid ilame Furse;—I do. Counsel: Do you allege that Sir Auck- land Godde" wa-i a party to the intrigue? —I do. And Lady Rhondda?—I do In fact, do you aileto tfat k-vervl)ody who took the view that you did not do your work properly, or that the work was not beitisr done satisfactorily, was party to the intrigue against you?—Those I have named certainly were I cannot say ''everyWody." No one ever criticised me at t.he War Office. Each one of the organisations you ]we named a.s tho e to which you had pre- viously be'.onged was organised before you became associated with them?—I was with the National Health Aaeurance Commis- sion of Waios when it was organi eil. The Commission found the stall", and I took an active part irt t!ie NN-ork. I have been a member of other organisations, but the W.R.A.F. was the Jirst department in which 1 lound an entire absence of or- ganisation. So ttlat you knew the difficulty of or- ganisation —Yes; I'uttiierstood the respon- •sibdpy of the formation of the W.R.A.F. I was not re.jxwisib'e for its formation from the beginning It was in ?. state of chaos. I did not think such disorganisa- tion existed, bu? I hacj, to work through it. the organ sat i m W)tn?? Continued t,hat. the oranj"ation was created wnw time in February, and she went to it* in May—on a month's trial. She soon realised that it would be a very difficult job. She appreciated the fact that the post was a most IMIK)UtAlk one, and that its success would depend on the woman offu-er at its head. Vou wrote to Sir Godfrey Paine that you were willing to try and help?—Cor- Uunly. I said 1 hopod he would not imd ine a broken reed, and that I should feel very strange at first working with worn -n. as I had always previously worked witu men. This ivu the first time I had ecitte in touch entirely with women. The Chairman: Did you in fact start work on the 13th May?—Yes. but not w Commandant. Miss Andrew. AJiss Pratt, and Mrs Beatty were already there. i had seen Miss Pratt previously. 1, NO WELCOME. Did these ladies extend to you any sort of welcome on your None whatever. But they all seemed quite friendly, and t'id not appear to resent my appointment as Commandant. From May lottt I had direct access to Sir Godfrey Paine; I was never refused it when it was possible. If anything went wrong you had only to go to him ?-Ceda.inly, if I could catch him. Asked if she had ever gone to Sir God- frey before the 11th June with a com- I-lain I ahout anybody working with her, witness replied in the negative: though she 'had gone to him on otlwr matters whiht she was "looking round." During the month when she was looking round she was endeavouring to do the work cf C< mm and ant. Though it was onli "looking round," vou were personally responsible? —Yes. I went: to see Sir Godfrey on the 11th Juno. The Chairman: What did you go to him for?—It was ncA with a complaint. But what for 7—In connection with bus1- oess of various kinds; generally on matters of business. It ia difficult to remember tiioso details. I was at this time making up my mind whether the post was one i could usefully fill. Did you go about anything relevant to this case?—I cannot remember. Mr Rigby Swift: That is what I thought During the lirst month yo^ad no com- p'aint to make about any lady ?—I made complaint to Sir Godfrey that there was a serious shortage of officers. I told him my difficulties, but did not make a complaint of anybody. The Chairman: You did not say anyone was in fault?—No. 1 was working with thp )>eople I have been mentioned. I had nothing to yay about anybody until a i)-?t i l i fi g aiiy? 1 ) certain episode hapi>ened, when Mrs Beatty let me down very seriously in relation to an officers' training camp. Cp to the lith there was no friction whatever, but may I qualify t.hat-(t pause)—I had no discord with them what- ever Counsel: I don't know enough about music to say whether abcence of discord is the same thing as harmony (laughter). I would draw your attention to the letter referring to serioua friction between M 3 and the lady formerly in charge of the W.ll.A.F., the Chief Superintendent. Witness explained that the conditions referred to in the ielttr did not seem to her a workable proportion. Counsel: I understood you to say you did not wish to take over the ressK>nsi- bility of Commdandant because you did not think the force was going to be a succc»s ?—I was convinced from what General Livingstone said that I was not goin:! to be allowed to do my work. 1 was to be junior to M 3; that is. Colonel Berscy and his stall. For relief from our troubles we had to go there. My junior officers went to Colonel Bersey without my knowledge. When one of the incidents related arose, did you say to anybody that, they were ta go to you?—I certainly did, arid I told Cc'onel Bersey so. During your trial month was anything else: said u to your being subordinate to M 3?—All through the month. I was treated exactly as a Junior officer, hut 1 d"t4>rOlin,.rl not to make any complaint until I had made up my mind whether or not I could take over the post. I "THE LIE DIRECT." I Ilic Chairman: In effect, you said you accepted the post on the understanding that you were to be responsible to General Livingstone < nd no one else?—Witness • Certainly. 1 am perfectly clear about that. Miss Violet Markham had said to me tha1. the "1';1(5" were the only body of women not under a woman Commandant, and she thought they ought to be. I had that in inuid when I saw Sir Godfrey Paine. J only went to the office on the understand- ing that 1 was to be Commandant. 1 should Lot have felt justified in leaving the important work I was doing in Wales unices I thought I was going to be of real use to the W.R. A. I then wrot-c the letter of 1th June. I do not remember whether or not I spoke to Miss Pratt about it, or that I said to her that I was gong to be subordinate to General Livingstone. I can only take Miss Pratt's word. Did you say to her that you ha-3 de- termined to get something up against General Livingstone in writing, and this was the way to do it?—I utterly deny that. Absolutely. Did you say to her you had all the "trump have no recollection of that. If Miss Pratt comes here and says this, would you deny it?—Absolute'y. I should give her the lie direct. Did you ever complain to Sir Godfrey Paine that the scheme suggested by you and Colonel Bersey was not being c&rrixt out?—Yes. That schema did not prevent you having direct acecss to Sir (;odftey Paine'Oh, no. After I complained to him he sent out a very severe memo, for the staff. About this mandate which you attribute to General Livingstone. What was -it? I think I used the wrong word in saying mandate. General Livingstone made 't clear to me that unless I worked uuoer M 3 I could not succeed. The Chairman: Was that. not a com- mand ?—He gave me no direct command. He was not entitled to. z Teli lI5 what you meant by a mandate.— General Livingstone said the ,chcmc would not siuceed. Then it was a prophecy, not a mandate. He inferred that you were to work under M 3?—Yes. but in- did not actually say so. Mr Rigby Sv. ift referred to a letter written by Miss Douglas Pennant to Sir Godfrey Paine, in which she AAid" I sea after what has happened that I am not the right person, and asked what had happened tu make her fed she was no1- the right person Witnes-. I think I wa.s feeling rather ditident about the business. • There was a great lack of good-will towards me. DISLIKE AND MISTRUST. I On whose r,art ? —From the outset there was Sir William Robin.-on There was no help -jt assistance. There was a significant attitXidc of dislike or ii.istrust of me wherever I went. Will you tell me the names of other people « ho bore ill-will towards you?— Arajor C'ockl.urn told me a very curious incident which s howed there was. You are not giving an answer to my question. 1 ask you for the names of other people? — When 1 went to the Probation- ary Officers' CWs, instead of being greeted in a friendly way, there seemed to be a feeling not only of suspicion but of dis- like. When I was walking about file Hotel Cecil I heard the most curious remarks made about me, and I thought I would just wait and see what it. all mean t before 1 made up III v mind what t", do. There was a very ,-tro.nge of persoiks work- ing there. Please tr to answer my question; and be so good as to give bheir UordshqVs any more names ?—I have tried to. I (lorit kriow the naiiiea of the j>eople, and I am so sorry I cartitc, to'l you definite names. I wanted to explain what Major Cockburn told me, but I wa stDpped, The Chairman: But that was hearsay, was it not?—I don't think it was hearsay. You gave us the idea that the witL-,Ie world was against you? -Oh, no. Counsol: Only that part of the world concerned wtoh the Air Force ?-Indeed, not. I cannot speak highly enollgh of th.) co-operation and help on tlie part of many of them I suggest .that there is no word of truth in your statement that Sir William Hobin- ijon, the Secretary of the Air Board, treated you in an unfriendly manner. Do you accept that?—I deny it. The stat-eittent of Sir Wiiham Robinson was read, in which it was mentioned that "her allegation is as untrue as it is absurd. I might add I made a point of offering her assistance and helping her in her work." Did he (counsel asked) offer you assist- anoe?—None whatever. The ChaIrWaii YoLt say you were treat- cd vvitii suspicion. How did they do that? —There was an unfriendly atmosphere. But mav you have not been under a complete misapprehension ? May I ,eave this until later when my witnesses are I called? They will help me very consider ably. j I WAS IT COERCION ? I Mr Rigby Swift: In Lhis at's (we of ^nfriejidlittesa were Mis. Pratt, M. e* t Beatty, and Miss Andrews aoting in this I way?—Not at first, but later on mt cer- tainly. Mrs Beatty seemod rather chilly all along, but I put that down to her trans- ference from another corps. I thought she was waiting to see how things worked out. Miss Pratt was receiving E400 a year from the W.R.A.F.'s. Do you suggest that she throw her position up in order to spite you?—I suggest that Miss Pratt was coerced. By whom?—I cannot tell you whether it was Colonel Bersey or General Living- stone or who gave the orders. I am quite convinced, however, to speak plainly, that it was a put-up job to discredit me. Have you any evidence in the world that Miss Pratt was coerced?—I have no direct evidence. The CSiairman Then if you cannot say by whom you c-amnot say she was coerced. What we want is facts. You have no facts to support these sftatement.s. Here are three ladies occupying positions with good salaries. Miss Douglas Pennant ap- (tarently believes they tendered their re- signations expecting that she would be dis- missed and thev would be reinstated. She thinks they used her wit-h mistrust. But there are no facts. Miss Douglas Pennant: My witnesses will tell you a lot. Lord Denbigh Yon don't suggest, Mr Rigby Swift, that those ladies all corning out at once was an aecident? Mr Rigby Swift: Oh. no I l'hey each intended resigning, and 011 litt(I Itig t-itat out from each other they discussed the matter and then went together in a body. "NEVER MET A LADY BEFORE." Mr Rrgby Swift directed Miss Douglas Pennant's attention to the circumstances surrounding the resignation of Miss Pratt. Witness admitted that Miss Pratt, after sending in her resignation, came to wit- ness' room. Were you very angry?-—Not in the least. Did you walk about the room? -I can- not tell you. I (lid not know I was watched. Would it be true to say you rushed about the room talking to her,It is not mv habit to walk about a room. Did you say you had been abominably treated?—No: I don't think so. Did you say you had been badly treated'? —■Certainly. 1 was badly treated. Did you say you were a lady' *)-I do not think there is any doubt about it (!a.u ght-er). Did you say that she apparently had nev.ir met a lady before, or had anything to do with a tady. I would certainly never say anything so rude. I suggest you were very cross, and said that they were not ladies, tha.t they had not met a lady before, and that they had treated you abominably?—Certainly not. Did you say that you were a Douglas -.tm quite certain I did not. I should not dream of doing gt). Did you say your friend s should know I about this? —(>rtainly not. It is such a jiaintiil thing, the desertion of women officers, that I should try to draw a veil over it. Did you say anything about 10, Down- ing- st ree t ? ( erta inly not. I suggest that this interview was a most pa.mfu) interview, aud you abused her for what she had done. d you a b u-4-- d her for I RELATIONS WFIH MRS BEATTY. I Mr Rigby Swift then turned to the re- signation of Mrs Beatty. Until the latter resigned witness s:tid she did not have • ro.ss words with her. but she noticed that Mrs Beatty took exception to one or two I»ints. Witness had to draw her atten- tion and that of other officers—and this was (lone in the mildest way j>ossible—to tho facts that they must not write letters Oil questions of 1liey or letters to mem- bers of Parliament without first consulting witness as commandant. Miss Douglas Pennant said if awiy letter;, were written she wished to be itt a position to defend them to her last breath. She also said that as long a.s she was commandant they must not be biasse<l by any outside influ- ence. She saw Mrs Beatty took excei»tiou t > that. With these two exceptions she had no trouble with Mrs Beatty. Mr Rigby Swift: I shall leavo Mrs Reatty's counsel to examine ?ou about th Rot. ),, -ttteTit' on of w i tn(,q (?un:«*! drew th? attention of w!tne.M to the ]?tt<w from Mr Roberts, t4itn 1- of liabotir, to Lord Weir, in which complaints were made of dela-v in enrol- ments and other difficulties. Mr Roberts wrote that the delay was so serious that he thought Lord W eir might desire to look into the matter personally. Did not. wit- ness consider it a serious matter for a Minister iu charge of one Department to receive such a complaint from t^ie head of another De»»artnu«i;t?—I think it was a rllie complaint was, apparently, tha.t the W.R.A.I'Ys were not strong enough at headquarters or in the local eentrcs. Yet you had been in the Department over six week??—-Tlie state of things which exist- ed was due to the POtiDY which had been adopted. Mr Roberts had complained of us not being able to send representatives to the Selection Boards, but it was diffi- cult- to do that owing to the fact that at that time I had iW-aet-ically no staff at all. After the 1st July had you a Deputy Commandant?--I had the service.* of Miss And:?\v? ami I had Mr Fvfoot from the li;i,l -Ir L-'v f t-?? fi-om the 'The Un'M' ladi<s who resigned left on July 1st; did you Jill their places?—Only by an Assistant Commandant, on loan, to see how the thing would go. Miss Andrews was lent to you by the Local Government Boird?—'That is so. Counsel pointed out that Mr Roberts said that he had 5320 applications for al- missions to t!u> Air Force, but only 559 had been enrolled. Vi itness sajd they could not take mobile members of the force until late in Sep- tember or early in O<itober. because the camps were not- read y for them, 'they were not enrolling through want of aceonimodat iOIl. l/ord Weir in his reply said lic, was not Aatigfiod with the existing state of things. Did you see the paragraph containing that?—I have no recollection of having done so- I LORD Wl'fR'S REPLY. Trd Wreir. in his reply, said you had only been apiioiirtod t-hree months and could not be e\;wx4od to bring aho1l1 a great improvement in so short a time, but he thought that henceforward satisfactory i results would have to be shown if you were to justify vo ir appointment? I have no recollection of that. Did Sir G. Paine say when Colonel Powell came that he would try the new arrangement for a month and that if it did not work one or the other, or both of you would have to go?—Not in those words. 'lhat he wa-,3 giving you the last chancc? T deny that a.lv»o! ittely. I worked with Coionel Powell fcr a week, and found him excellent to work with. He was capable of getting through an immense amount of work. He did say he had hoard that I was rude on the telephone. I SIR AUCKLAND GEDDES. Are you aware that on August 26th Sir Auckland Geddes was in communication with Ijord Weir regarding the W.R.A.F.'s? I was not. § And Sir Auckland Keddes is one of those you are now acvusing of being in an in- trigue against you? -Certainly.. Did you know he was the head of all those re»|>otJaible for recruiting to the whole of His Majosty's Forces?—I was in- formed the Ministry of Labour dealt with that. Did you not know Sir Auckland was ap. pointed Minister of National Service?—I certainly did not. And that as such his Department was responsible for all Women's Services?—I was not aware of it. Did you know Sir Auckland had ex- pressed the view that the amtngwnents for recruiting of the W.R.A.F.'s were thoroMghty bad No, I did not. Do you know that he asked Lady iUiondia to make an inquiry as to recruit- ing for all the Women's Forces?—No. Who was Lady RhOlldda She was in charge of the Women's National Ser- vice. You don't doubt for a moment that I-ady Rhondda is a lady of the very high- est character? I want to know if you really think she was intriguing against you?—I take it for granted Lady Rhondda always had desired straightforwardness, but regret to say that after this business I have not found her straight. LADY RHONDDA AND THE I INTRIGUE." } Have you any reason for suspecting that Ladv Rhondda took an adverse view of the W.R.A.F.'s dishonesty?-1 think she was misinformed. You are accusing her of being in this intrigue. Do you think it was because she was misinformed or wa" it through malice? — It is very difficult to road people's minds. I think cort-ainly she was made to believe things, and tried to'get rid of me without any in ve-tigut-ion. nid not Lcml Weir 0xpr0SS regret to you that nobody had told him Sir Godfrey Paine said you could go on for another iyiotith -Iorfl Weir said: "I wish I had gone into the matter more fully." Do you say Lord Weir was properly or improperly influenced?—I say it was necessarily improper on somebody's part, but not necessarily on the part of Lord Wei r. You don't think it was right for him to act as he did however?—No: it was not right. I do not wish to criticise Lord Weir. You are very free about criticising, Miss Douglas Pennant. said counsel. "Don't hesitate about criticising a little more 1 Miss Douglas Pennant: Lord Weir was influenced and gave an improper decision owing to that influence. The Chairman: You moan Lord Weir acted wrongly?—Yes. Mr Rigby Swift: Thon I understand you make no charge against Lord Weir of aoting improperly?—I think Lord Weir was very seriously misinformed and listened to a junior officer. Miss Andrews, who went to him behind my back. IX GOOD FAITH. I The Eia-rl of Kintorc: Do you think Lord Woir a<-t'd in good faith?—I have no reason to believe he did not act in good faith. Counsel: You say he acted under the influence of Sir Auckland Geddes. Do you meall thai that influence was impro- perly exorcised?—I cannot tell what Sir Auckland's motive was. I certainly think it was impro|x.*r if. as I know he went to Lord Weir when he had no knowledge of the circumstances. Supposing Sir Auckland Geddes came to the conclusion that the arrangements of the Wrafs were thoroughly bad. would he be rilglit to tell Lord Weir so I'-Cert-ain- ly, if he lirst had knowledge. Do you say that Dame Katharine Furse improperly influenced Lord Weir?- I do. inis;nfornin] hiiii. What of? -That thing's were not going right, and that I must go. What evidence have you that she ever influenced him in any shape or form?—- I know that she went to see him with Lady Rhondda. Lady Rhondda told me so. adding that she was shocked and surprised to hear of mv dismissal. Do you know that lo-,(i Weir never had I n. consultation with Dame Katharine FurKe until after you had been dismissed? And you make this charge merely upon something which you had been told?—Oh, no; not in the very least. Is there a.ny incident, saving that about Mrs Beatty, to show that Dame Katharine Juirso had been intriguing against you?- Yes. something she said to Sir Godfrey Paine. She said to him: "Do you know that she (that is*nie) has no inspectors?" lhat was an odd thing for her to say about the had of a Department with which she had nothing to do. Are those the incidents you rely upon, or are there itiore.-There arc others. There is one which, although it is an ex- ceedingly trivial matter, I should like to mention, because it does show an un- friendly sj>irit. A question arose about tho insurance of the women in the various forces, and a conference was held. Dame Katharine FlII""e wrote to me indicating that her Def>artmont, the Admiraltv, were taking the matter up with regard'to the I W.R.N.S. I replied congratulating her on what the Admiralty were doing, and added a hope that the Air Minestry would ioliow that good example. She sont my letter to the Secretary of the Air Minis-try, do. a.r d as !Lit thing to which I regard as an improtier thing to MONDAYS SITTING. REPORTED IMMORALITY IN CAMPS. THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST COL BERSEY. The Committee again met on Monday, and Miss: Douglass Pennant was under cross-examination during the whole of the Sttilig. Mr Patri.k Hastings, K.C., by leave, j interposed his cross-examination on be- hiiif of Colonel Betsey. He said: Miss Douglas Pennant, I have read through your case, in so far as it affects Colonel ilersey. and also your evidence. Your at- legation is that he was a party to this in- t."gUt., and he obstructed yuu in tho ful- filment of your duties Mi, Douglas Pennant: He did. That is your case against Colonel Bcrsoy no you >\ish to take this opporfunitv of eypressing any regret to Coionel IV-rsoy for anything you may have done or said about him?—None whatever. W hen do you say that this intrigue corn- menced?—That I cannot answer precisely, because I do not know. W hat was the npproximale date at which it commenced ? —From the very outset I saw I was not getting any information, which I was entitled to have, and shoutd havo had. I thought then it was due to Colonel Bersey's inexperience. What was the approximate dute you can say the intrigue was going on -About a fortnight or three wcofcs after my arrival. The Chairman: Say about May 27th. Miss Dongas Pennant: About that I GKNESIS OF THE "INTRIGUE." Mr Hastings: Who were concerned in the intrigue at the early Jte t Witness said that all the persons con- cerned had not then arrived on the scene, but they were "roped in" later on. She could not tell who the intrigua. An intrigue to be successful was a very secret matter. She thought that General Livingstone, Colonel Bersey, Dame Kath- arine Furse. rnd Mrs Bcattv commenced i(. The Earl of Denbigh: The intrigue was for [lie liurl)ote ()f g*-tt-irig rid of you? Witness said that she did not think ao Her impression was that whoever hai been in the command of the W.R.A.F with direct access to the Master-General of Personnel, an cflort Would have been made to get rid of that person. She did not Isuggest that Dame Katherine Furse was intriguing to be a party to wrong conditions in the camps. But "he did sug- gest that Colonel Bersey and General Liv- ingstone did not want a searchlight turned upon the conditions of the camps. Dame Katharine Furse was intriguing for differ- ent motives. Sh* did not like the f-Let Wiat the Air Ministry should set up an tn- dependent body of women. The Chairman: She was merely hostile to the W.R.A.F. ? Miss Dougla? Pennant: I do not think it wa* a jxjrsorinl matter to me. Mr Hastings: I ant only concerned with Colonot Ber-ey. Will you tell mo whether you are suggesting that he had dishonctt motives, and, if 50, what?  -1 Mfaa Douglas Pennant: I you say what you mean by 'dishonest?" Mr Hastings: That he was trying to perpetrate frauds. Miss Douglas Pennant: I do not sug- gest that. TERRIBLE ACCUSATIONS." I am going to suggest ttiat you have ma.de terrible accusations against Colonel Bersey, and I will ask you to withdraw them.—I do not suggest dishonesty. Do you suggest that Col. Bersey was trying at any time to job any of his friends into offices?—I do. You realise that is a terrible accusation to make -I certainly realift. the gravity of it. I think your counsel referred to five lad- ies, one a sister of General Livingstone., and four fren-d.s of Colonel Bersey. You persist in that ?—I do. If I am prepared to prove that Colon?1 Bersey never had seen four out of thesa five ladies and never knew their names at the time that the question of appointment camo up to him, would you persist in your allegation?—! should be very much astonished. Would you withdraw your allegation if you saw that Colonel Bersey never knew four of them ?—I should be disinclined to credit..Witness added that if it were es- tablished she certainly would express her regret. Do you still desire to say that Colon J Bersey desired that immorality should (-on- tinue in camps of the W.R.A.F. ?—I do. Mr Hastings: It is one of the most tcr- rible accusations you can mako against any man. Is it the case that when ycu camo to put forward your case you never made any suggestion of that cort in your written ease ? I cannot answer that "Y('s" or "No." You wrote to the Prime Minister about Colonel" Bersey. Did you allege in writing to the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State that that was Colonel Bersey's ob jeet? Did you make a suggestion of that sort?—Yes; I said certain officers did net want a searchlight on the conditions of the camps. You desire to adhere to that now. Will you tell me what evidence you have had which, in your opinion, justifies you say- ing that Colonel Bersey desired that im- morality should continue in tlie camps of the W.R.A.F.?—Because Colonel Bersey never gave me any assistance in clearing up any of the serious states of things of which I became aware in the camps. CONDITIONS IN THE CAMPS. Jhd you ever in your lite say one single word to Col. Bersey about immorality in any camp?—I did. iWhen?— told hint about what I had heard about Hurst Park, and I asked him to lind out about it. Witness proceeded to say that she went to dine with tho Archbishop of Canerbury and heard very serious repoits about the conditions in camp*. She told Colonel Bersey and asked him to heip in puttmg a stop to it. Col Bersey put her off repeatedly, and she was never ab!c to get at the serious state of affairs at Hurst Park until Colonel Bersey left. Mr Hastings- Then you desire to state that on that evidence you charge this gen- tleman with a desire to keep those camps in a state of immorality? Witness said that she did not say Hut he himself was taking a direct pait in what was going on. Do you realise that Colonel Borsey is a [ married man 1-1 do. And that lie had a grown-up daughter? —I do. Do you realise that he is a man who is 3ionoured and respected?—I did not know that. Witness continued that on the part of Colonel Bersey there was continual ob- struction to her work, unwillingness to assent to improvements, constant promises never fulfilled, or very rarely, and un- willingness to co-operato with her by action when she was not present. She did not think there was anything further to say on the point. HEARD RUMOURS OF SCANDALS. Asked if she had written to Mr Churchill on the matter, witness replied in the ftirmatiYe She had said that the c(vidt- tions in some of the camps were extreme- ly bad; that she had heard rumours cf serious scandals; and that Colonel Bersey was her only means of ascertaining de, tails and of trying to verify rumours. Late. on she had found that he deliberatel)- mis- informed her in ofdc to prevent any action being taken. Asked in what way she had been misled, witness pointed to a case in which she com- plained of insufficient information. A case in a camp which she would only describe as "near Londo,n where great. trouble arose on account of two officers who wore direct- ly up against their female officers. One ot these had described herself as Adminis- trator" without authority. .Will you writ.; on a piece of paper the names of the two ofifcers to whom you refer as having been mixed up with the '— W itness con)p h e d immorality s[>oken of \\ïtne,¡ complied with the request. You desire to persist in your allegation that Colonei Bersev deliberately nr.sied you in order to prevent action being taken? I do. You were the Commandant? I was. Why were not you the jierson to make inquiries? — lio*ause Colonel Bersey was my channel of ijifoiiiiatioit. I relied upon him. I got Colonel Williams appointed. Witness was asked by counsel if she had tola Colonel .Williams that Colonei Bersey was hopeless and could not be worked under, and the Chairman pressed the question, to which Miss Dougas 1 en- nam ajti that she had told Colonel Wil- Jiams that it. was necessary to try and get things into ship-shape, but she did not remember using the words stated. Of Colonel Betsey you have given tflie lowest opinion possible?—I have not said If). Counsel said she had intimated that sh j had said that he was a party to tho.com- minion of immorality in the camps, and there could not be two views of such a man if the charge were true. Witness said there were two opinions nn the question of immorality of that kind. Some people did not regard it as a ser- ious matter at all. I ALLEGED DRUNKENNESS OE YOUNG GIRLS. Pressed on the point, witness repeated that the matter was a questioh of opinion. In her letter she had written that ncr di- missal from the post of Commandant was that she would not be a party to tine job- bery that prevailed amongst the Vs rate. By "jobbery" she meant the appointment of people who were not tit for taeir poao. She had written to Mr Churohil! that she had been treated as she was because she was too just and straight. She went on to say that young female officers had been taken up to London in Government cars and brought back to oamp drunk in the early hours of tine morning, and that the officer in command of the station was a, lady who was most improperly associated with a certain officer down there- But she did not wish to go into all tihe detaile of wKat was going on. Statementi were made about other campe, and it had been her demre to get these things Aopped and the situation improved. She made no charge against the officers in charge, aa they had been kept in the dark, as she had been herself. You think the people you hare spoken of wanted to continue th» sort of.tlhing- young girls being brought home drunk in tihø oarly hours of the morning !Witnem repiied that that "81 -t though At was gprry to have to my iL She muat 'speak tine truth. You made "minutes" of your proceed- ings as Commandant, did not you?—Yrea. Can you point to one sent to Sir Godfrey Paine dealing with these charges ?—I can- not point to one sent to Bar Godfrey Paine. Or any general officer?—Sir G. Paine was the only officer I Could communicate with. Counsel: But you could have sent one to the Air Minister? (A pause). The Chairman: You did not? Witness: No, I did not. I REQUEST FOR SPECIFIC CASES. Mr Hastings: Can you give me one sin- gle name of a person who, according to your belief, is in a position to state there was immen-ality Miss Douglas Pennant replied with an- other query, to which counsel emphasised his question, "Can you give me the name of any livirfg person who is able to give evidence in support of your assertioiS-711 Miss Douglas Pennant: Yea, I can. No names, however, were given publicly, and counsel proceeded with his croes-ques- tioning on other incidents. The question of alleged immorality at Hurot Park Camp was broached, and coun- sel urged the witness to stiite actual cases where she had found such a condition ex- ist. He said: Now, Miss Douglas Pen- nant. you know that Colonel Bersey was working from nine o'clock in the morning until one o'clock next morning?—Ho wzs not working in the office all tihat time. Do you want to suggest he was not work- ing properly at his duty? You know tc visited Hli;tit Pat,k. Did you ever report any specific case of immorality at any par- ticular camp?—I could never get names of specific cases. If there was immorality going on and you knew it, why didn't you report it?—I could not get access to tho proper quar- ters. Mr Hastings read statements which Miss Douglaa Pennant had made in letters re- garding the conditions. "What justifica- tion had you or what evidence to make such statements?" he asked. "Who told you all these th ttigs I "S(nn(- of the motor drivers came and told mo "so and 60," but I don't know their names, of course. If I produco to you a minute sent, by C'otonel Hersev tOiowing that the Com- mandant had direct access to the "M.G.IV would you wish to deny it?—I have nothing to do with that.. I was supposed to work under 3 M. THE QUESTION OF INDENTS. Mr Hastings proceeded to cross-examine witness as to the allegation contained in tlie case of Miss Douglas Pennant that when there was a need -for officers Colonel Hersey failed to forward suitable indents for supplies or accommodation. He asked whether tiaat referred to Berridge House. Witness said it did. There was also a question with regard to Portland-place. Is there any other ease of failing to forward indonts ?-i do not think fcftere was. You wanted furniture ai; Berridge House ?—Yr es. Colonel Bereey was the man who ought to indent for the furniture?—Yee. He deliberately abstained from indenting in order to hamper yoii.-Ilo did. \\a.3 Berridge House to take the place of Queen'gate houses?—Apparently. Supposing I produce a minute signed by Colonel Bersey indenting for the furniture and asking the proper quarter to keep that in store, and the proper quarter ref used to do so, wooild you say that Colonel Bersey refuaed to indent?—I should. Wh-at evidence havo you in mind to show that Colonel Bersey refused to indent?—I shall bring forward a witness to show that Colonel IV-rsey gave instruction to an offi- oer that he was not to indent. His name ?--Captain Cherry. You say it would make no difference if I produced a minute suggesting that the furniture should be got ready?—Ho told me he had asked for the furniture to be got roady. Do you believe -him?—No. Counsel read a. minute by Colonel Ber- sey requesting the necessary facilities for preparing houses for the accommodation of the W.R.A.F.'s. Witness said that counsel wsus under a misapprdhension. This minute referred to depot hospitals. No doubt it wai a,n honest minute. Berridge House was never intended to be used a-s a hospital. She went on to say that Colonel Bersey would not indent for her to get officers trained. The Karl of Denbigh He would not in- dent for any particular scheme you had Selected?—My point is that I had to get the officers, and lie would not help me to get fchem- Counsel asked whether witness suggested that Colonel Bersey did not forward in- dent* at. all, or that tihey were fraudulent. Witness replied she could not say what it was. I TRAINING CENTRE ACCOMMO- DATION. Counsel pointed out that the minute to which jÐ l'ajld attention dealt with the fitting out of a centre for oiffcers, accommodation being wanted for the training of 200 women in cookery. The minute said it was hoped to com- mence tfie training of household women in fourteen days, but in order to <15 that the whole scheme tiiiould be taken in hand at t,.to earliest possible moment. If that was honest, did ITt, iiot (,arry out w t i i ei:i' N- 'ew! --Witness repli<Hl in the affirmative. On being informed that it was dated June 22nd she replied that it waa an hou- est minute. After submitting other minutes concern- ing indents for furniture by Coloney Ber- sey, counsel asked if witness persisted that Colonel Bersey had refused to indent?—■ Witnse: I do. Counl asked if witness could name any single person who had been prevented by Colonel Bersey from seeing lier. Miss Douglas Pennant replied that Col. Beeket-t was stioh a penson. Had you ever seen him?—I had. Is he in England ?—No. She had men- tioned the nam-o to her solicitor, and had not instructed ihim to refrain from saying that ho was not in England. Sh could not give the name of any person in JBngland who had told her he had been prevented from Colonel Bersey from seeing her, nor could she mention anyone now in England .who had heard Colonel Bersey sav that he was the officer in command of the W.R.A.F. She had said thatColonel Borsey started to proceed against her be- Cltuse he was angry at her having direct access to the Master-General of Personnel, andgihe did not wlfh to withdraw the. tt&te. ment, neither did she desire to witiidra-w the allegation in regard to the women motor drivers, and sho was not sure that jthe cou!d give the name of any one in England who was present when Colonel BerSev went out. Counsel suggested that she had behaved glianiefijliv to Colonel Bersey, trying to get ?him dismissed from hia post?—Witness: (ii.,In I"Ai(?(i from his po,t?- IN? i tnei: COMPLAINTS TO GENERAL PAINE. Have you mad e a series of complaints about him to General Paine?—Only at the last- Did you make two or three complainh following each other to General Pailie about him? Answer "Yes" or "No."— Yes. More than onc ?-Cert.a.inly, because I could not get the information I waioted. Y'ou complained to General Paine OD, different occasions on different subjects?— Yes; about indents and accommodation and clothing. Behind hia back?—No. Did you ever tell Colonel Bersey you were going to make them?—I did on the lit July aa to' the minutes. I made complaint about tite clothing beoauso I found he 'Would not help me M aU., MA that w. the oUmax, x Witness continued that she had spoken to General Paine without going into de- taila. You say you were dismissed without &n opportunity of being hMrd ?-Yes. Did you realise that Colonel Bersey was dismissed on your statement to General Paina without an opportunity of being heard ?-No, because General Paine had writ-ten to him before. Did you ever suggest that Colonel Ber- aey should have an opportunity of being hea,rd?-, I never droamed that he would not lhave it. Do you now wish to express regret to Colonel Bersey for anything you have written or said against him ?-No, I do not. l'iiis concluded the cross-examination on behalf of Colonel Bersey. I DIRECT ACCESS. Mr Rigby Swift. K.C., then resumed his cross-examination of Miss Douglas Pen- nant on behalf of the Air Ministry. He took up with witness the question of pro- ducing evidence that matters of importance should have been taken to either General I^ivings.tone or '\Cctlone Bersey. Miaa Douglas Pnnant persisted that she should have direct access to Sir Godfrey Paine. Dame Katharine Furse, she said, was out of order in going to the heads of depart- ments without first c-onsulting her. Did you complain to Dame Katharine Furse about that?—No. Were you very rude to Dame Katharine Furse?—I am quite certain I was not. Did you take a shorthand writer with you to an interview on one occasion ?--No. Did you ever have a shorthand writer on such occasions?—My private secretary sometimes went with me. Did you keep a shorthand writer con- cealed behind a screen in your room for interviews?—No, certainly not. Did Miss Andrew not complain to you once that she could see in the looking- glass someone taking notes?—I don't n- member. To-day you have told their Lordshipe that General Livingstone was one of those whom you thought desirous that immoral- ity should go on. Do you really suggest that General Livingstone had some inter- est in permittin.g immorality in tho camp to continue?—I do not suggest that lie had a personal interest in it. Tell my Lords straight. Do you make the allegation that he was endeavouring to prevent steps being taken to stop im- morality in the camps ?—I don't think that General Livingstone wished jt, but ho took no steps to prevent it. I RESPONSIBILITY FOR DLSCIPLINE; Did you on a single occasion call tin attention of General Livingstone to one single cuse of immorality ?—I understood that I don't want what you understood.—It was my duty to report it. Rut you were responsible for discipline? —Yes- Could you not have taken the same stops that General Livingstone might hare taken?—Yes, but I resigned. Ob. I thought the whole trouble was thai you were dismissed. It was your business to go to Sir Godfrey Paine, was it not!- Yes, if I had the facts or real knowledge. I want to know specific cases of im. morality in the camps. Please give me all the cases you know.—Castle Bridge and Ckutle Bromwich. When did you hear about immorality at Castle BroM widh'-From Mrs Beckett. Can you tell mo any dates?—1 am aw- fully sorry I cannot. Were there no other camps besides these two ;-Ye'i!. there certainly were. It was very difficult for a commandant of a camp to find out wha.t was actually going on. Then how do you suggest General Liv- ingstone or Colonel Bersey could find the--A things out?—They had the entree to att, the camps. I TUESDAY'S SITTING. J THE HURST PARK CAMP CHARGES. I MISS DOUGLAS PENNANT'S CROoS- EXAMINATION CONTINUED. The feature of tb<! inquiry on Tuesday was when Miss Leonard, who has lt referred to by Miss Douglas Pennant in her evidence, a^ked permission of their Lordships to question Miss Douglas rert. nant. This request was granted, but Loid Wrcnbury ultimately ordera Miss Leon- ard to cease her interrogations c.i amount of them having no bearing iJ'! the pu.-p<s.-o ■ of the inquiry. "These art, questions personal to your- self," said Lord Wren bury. "They bale nothing at all to do with what we are t* decide. "I feel, my Lords, that the questions affect me very much," persisted Miss Leonard. "Yes, but we are not sitting here to in- vestigate personal matters," said tho Chairman. "You have given so much publicity to us"-proceeded Miss Leonard (addreFAing Miss Douglas Pennant). Lord Wrenbury: You are addressing the witness, not asking questions. The mem- bers of the Committee are of the opinion that what you are saying should not, be put to Miss Douglas Pennsnt. Wtli y 4 please sit down? "SERIOUS MATTERS GOING O-N. MU's Douglas Pennant s cross-examina- tion was continued by Mr Higby ;wÜt. Witness stated that she had not Drought the promised notes relating to the mat- ters dealt with at tile previous sitting They were a typewritten summary, but would bring tho originals to-morrow re- lating to immorality in camps. Mrs Beckett, she added, told something about the camp at Castle Bromwich, but did not write a report. Shp. wa.:3 under the im- pression that she would not remain in her post for 24 hours if she officially reported to me. Therefore she came up to see life. This was on September ldtry 1J18, aftsr my supersession. General iiiggirts was blocking my reports. InaH no defi- nite information about immorality 111 other cam. What came to me was all rumour. It was only when I got special information that I knew what was going on. You had special information about. Spit- tulgate?—No; it was South Carlton- There was 110 charge of any sort as to immorality by women in that camp, was there—look at your notes?—I have a now of serious matters going on at various carnpm. You cannot imagine anything more ser- ious tnan immorality on the part of women under your command? Have you put a word about it in the notes you put in this morning?-Yes. It was part of your duty to appoint offi- cers ?—Certainly. Was It part of your duty to dismiss them?—To recommend them for diamssal. Now, with regard to your allegations of inCmorslity at Hurst Park. do you not think if you had mentioned this to Col. Powell he would not be likely to forget so important a matter?—I cannot say. I "NICE lOTIlERLY CARETAKER." The witness referred to the administra- tor of the hostel at Hurst Park as a "very nice, respectable, motherly caretaker." "Then," asked Mr Swift, "if this 'nice inotheriv caretaker' had known of immor- alityat- Hurst Park, why did she not re- port, it to you?"—I learned afterwards that she had sent reports W me but they were intercepted and never reached me. Did you make any e„o_rnnpi Umtto Sir » Godfrey Paine about that?-No, I did not. Witness went on to say that Mrj Kitto. tho commandant at the namp, told her she was much ooticerned about not receiving telegrams and telephone itwesages--some of glecn making appointments with officers who belonged to the statione. She had reported to Sir Godfrey Paine about the motor drivers, and it was ordered that the drives nVhich had been complaiticd of sheuld cea»e. She had not reported to (Continued Øft Pap