The Welshman

CARMARTHENSHIRE FARMERS' CLUB. Last Saturday, this club migrated from Carmarthen to Llanciilo, where a capital meeting was held. We have never seen a larger number at dinner, and one ceasing feature was, that the farmers did not run away irectly after the rafSe, but stopped to hear the paper and the discussion. MrW. E. B. Gwy presided, Mr Lewis, Llwynfedwen, one of the leading farmers of the Llandilo district, occupying the vice-chair. After dinner, the Chairman proposed 22 new members, whose names we append :—Dr Dade; Dr Lloyd, Cross Inn, Llandebie Mr Brodie, Tyrdail Mr Lewis, Llwynfedwen Mr Lloyd, Blaenay Mr Hopkins, Myn- ddynfich Mr Thomas, Pentredavies Mr Lewis, Llwyndewy; Mr Owen Jones, Penycoed Mr Davies, Canton Mr Davies, Tynycwm Mr Rees, Glanravon- ddu; Mr Rodrick, Talardd Mr Herbert Thomas, Corner House, agent to Mr Higginson- Mr Evans, Cawdor's Arms Hotel Mr Thomas, Maesypriol Mr Evans, Cilsane; Mr Jones, Cwmbasset; Mr Owen Thomas, Corn and Seed Merchant, Llanelly Mr W. B. Davies, Broad Oak Mr W. Lewis, Glandules; Mr James, Gellywernen. Mr J. L. Philipps seconded, and hoped to see them all at Carmarthen, at the next meeting. The rame resulted thus: Air rhornas, Corner House, Llandilo, Ransome and Lewis's swing plough Dr Hopkins, Howard's seed harrow Mr Higginson, turnip drill; Mr Jones, Derwydd, iron wheelbarrow i Mr Roderick, Taisarn, knife rester; Mr Davies, Wernddu, dung fork Mr James, Gellywernen, ditto Mr Footman, ditto Mr Francis, Penygraig, ditto; Mr Davies, Broadoak, ditto Mr Owen Thomas, Llanelly, ditto; Mr Davies, Typicca, set of draining tools; Mr Thomas, Derllys, ditto Mr Davies, Glanrwnys, ditto. The Chairman having called for the subject for discussion, 'r_- -y, iur x ootman saicl-in England and Wales the usual time of entering upon the tenancy of a farm is Michael- mas-day, or the 29th of September. Leaving for the present the time of taking it, we shall first enquire into the respective merits and advantages of the various terms on which land is held by tenancy. There is no question with rational men that a leasehold tenancy of a farm is, as a rule, more advantageous to the landlord, as well as the occupier, than a tenancy from year to year; or that a long lease is preferable to a short one. The idea of retaining power over a tenant by letting land only from year to year, argues a disposition to act the tyrant when the opportunity occurs for taking advantage of the helpless position of the tenant. We see flagrant instances of this inj ustice and oppression continually, and where it does not break out in acts of positive dishonesty we see that it engenders suspicion on both sides, very injurious to the welfare of either party, and destructive to good husbandry. No tenant E0- year to year can safely adopt a liberal system of farming, subject as he is to the caprices of his landlord and to be turned out at six months' notice. No under- draining, no erection of necessary buildings for cattle, no permanent improvement of any kind can be effected under such tenancy. All that an occupier of such farm has to look to is to secure as good a return for his annual outlay as the year's holding of the land will justify him in providing for. It is dangerous for him to expend money, to be repaid even by a second year's return, for he knows not if his landlord will take offence at some trifling matter, or worse than all avail himself of the tenant's outlay, to obtain a higher price for his land. Such instances of dishonourable and dishonest dealing we have repeatedly seen and heard of, for there are fraudulent landlords as well as tenants, and nothing but a lease can restrain them from taking advantage of their position to deprive the tenant of his property in- vested in the land. Before, therefore, a farmer treats for a farm he should learn the character of the land- l)o? rd. Tit?? henndsthat he is a litigious, suspicious, or tricking man, let him abandon the idea of taking the Mrmon any terms without a lease, to the covenants of which he must also look. On the other hand, a land- lord has as just a right to investigate the character of & farmer offering himself as a tenant, for there are many men who would be glad to get hold of a farm in high condition in order to work it down to poverty. If the character of the landlord is satisfactory, the next thing is to a-seertair the qualIty of the land-the condition it CEtleS ft in by the out-going tenant, whether Sd?rai- ned or not, the distance from market, the climate, and the rent-thislatter?dependa in its amount on the quality of the land-and I think it is as much to the landlord's interest as to that of the tenant's that both the rent and the conditions of the lease, if any is granted, should be on so liberal a basis as to enable the tenant to do justice to himself, the land, and the landlord. The men who come forward with capital and skill, and offer to expend both on another person's property, are entitled to something more than courtesy. A mutual interest ought to form a bond of union be. tween them of the most liberal and confidential nature, extending to every thing connected with the contract between them. As a rule, we should say, good land- lords will have good tenants, because it is the interest of the latter to be so. It is often said by tenants, the less they see of their landlords the better such feelings ought not to exist. My opinion is, if they were always with us they would soon know the good farmer from the bad one, of which every landlord ought to form his own opinion, instead of listening to reports from per- sons who, to a great extent, are too fond of using such to gain the latter's influence, tending to the injury of many a good farmer, and the landlord in the end. It is the farmer's interest, on taking a farm on lease, to bring it into, and during his term keep it in as high a state of cultivation as possible, and few are the men who will not do so. With regard to restrictions in the management of the soil, it is a good general rule that a man of sufficient capital who engages in the cultiva- tion of an arable farm ought to submit to none except pernaps auring the last years of his lease. Landlords have frequently attempted to substitute their own skill in place of that of the tenant, and by respective clauses in the lease to tie him down to a mode of cultivation which they thought most profitable for themselves and advantageous to the land. In this way, however, the progress of improvement is arrested, the tenant's superior skill being rendered of no value. A slovenly husbandry infallibly takes place, accompanied in all probability with bad temper on the part of both landlord and* tenant; the one endeavouring to enforce, the other to evade the stipulations of the contract. The temptation, indeed, is so great to exhaust a soil during the last years of the lease, that it becomes necessary in the interest of the public and the landlord that the mode of cropping should be regulated during these last years. Beyond this point, however, a man of spirit engaging in agriculture ought not to suffer himself to be fettered, but ought to secure to himself the opportunity of making use of whatever additional improvements his art may receive from others, or from his own enterprising skill and experience. The misfortune in many cases is that the landlord leaves the management between him and his tenant to his attorney or land-agent, who in many cases are only anxious to please their employer. This they think can be best done by binding down the tenant with such covenants as they consider most adapted to keep him in a state of entire dependence, and thus establish the landlord's power over him. Let therefore the farmer who treats for a farm look well to the covenants of the lease, if one is granted, and if he is at all acquainted with modern husbandry he will be able to judge how far they are favourable or otherwise to a profitable and rational system of cropping. Another important particular in treating for a farm is the arrangement, adaptation, and condition of the farm- buildings. Many old homesteads are very deficient in accommodation for cattle and other animals, which now more than ever constitute the most valuable por- tion of the farmer's property. It is generally the landlord's part to build and keep in repair all the homesteads upon a tenant taking the farm. Afterwards, if the latter wants further accommodation, it is usual for the landlord to find materials, and the tenant to pay for the labour. With respect to the length of the lease,—twenty-one years is the shortest term that a tenant can insist upon, as capable of securing justice to himself, or the land. All the plans of a good farmer entering upon a farm ought to be pro- portionate to the returns on his outlay-a circumstance not possible with a short lease. A yearly tenancy is still worse. If you question the tenant upon improving the farm, his answer would be "I have no lease, and therefore it is uncertain whether I should ever get my money back." He, at the same time, knowing that he might lay it out with advantage to the land, the land- lord, and himself. With such a system as this we can- not expect tenants to cultivate the land as they would wish to do. We do not deny that some estates are managed without leases, on liberal principles, and that on such properties there is a mutual understanding existing between the landlord and tenant, that gives the latter a moral security in the permanence of his possession. On such estates families have resided for successive generations with perfect confidence on both sides. But even in these cases acts of oppression are sometimes committed the struggle should therefore be for the lease. With regard to restrictions upon the tenant farmer in the covenants of a lease, as I have already said, they ought not to come into operation until the last fire years of the term. Because preventing iflg^farme/ !rom making the most he can of the land IS th ■ .an<* opposed to all improvements. Whilot a lease is m full operation the farmer knows his tZ idll reduce well to pursue T 8ySt6m °f t^bandry that wIll reduce hIS produc, and consequently his pro- fit forth, remainder £ .73UscK tt maybenec»»»7 to confine him to a certain course of cropping, if uncertain whether he will remain on the property after the expiration of the term. ? even then restrictions may be rendered unnecessary if a cer. tain system was carried out, namely-entering into a fresh agreement for a new lease five years before the expiration of th. old one, by which security is given to the tenant, that he has no interest in scouring the land t e tenan, in but on the contrary every induce- by over-cropp the best and most beneficial system, 'ç ?r himself and the land. Restrictions in such a bou would be useless. But as every farmer has not ^managed be land he held, as to induce the landlord so managed the Ifnd restrictions may be necessary to to grant a fresh ease, r over-cropping the land the restrain the bad farer from which-with the certainty last five years of his term, which-with the certainty that he would not obtain a renewal—it is most probable he would otherwise do. I have ventured to place these few observations before you, in the hope that they may afford a subject for discussion on a matter involving much of great moment, both to the landlord and tenant, in these days of progress and improvement. This one subject, of vital importance has been permitted to pass almost unnoticed, whilst the subjects of manuring, tilling, cropping, and feeding, have had their full share of consideration, and I think not without advantageous results to those who have been willing to profit by them. May I trust that the present will meet with its share of consideration, with the same good results, yeilding us the satisfaction of knowing that the Farmers' Club and its discussions are not altogether without bearing a fruitful return. (Cheers.) Mr Harries, Abersanen, said the subject was an awkward one for them to discuss, and it would be more thoroughly considered in a Chamber of Agriculture. Mr Lewis, Llwynfedwen, said that owing to some inadvertence, he had not received notice of the subject of discussion, and was not prepared to go into it thoroughly. He agreed that the subject was more suitable to the Chamber of Agriculture, and hoped that at their next meeting, they would have a subject which would send them away wiser than they came. He concurred with Mr Footman that there ought to be an agreement, unless landlords and tenants had con- fidence in each other. There was another topic which would be discussed, and he intended introducing it to the Chamber of Agriculture, namely, the Law of Distress. (Cheers.) In taking a farm, men should be careful as to stipulations about cultivating it. One landlord went in for one course of husbandry, and another for another course, while the tenant probably found one, quite different to both, which answered him best. In this wet climate of Carmarthenshire, every tenant farmed on the system which was most to his own advantage. (Cheers.) One system of farming would never do here. Mr Anthony, auctioneer—I do not at all agree with these long leases it is all against auctioneers. (Great laughter.) If there were no tenants from year to year, the auctioneers would not live. (Renewed laughter.) Mr Thomas, Pentredavies, said the vice-chairman had strayed from farm taking to cultivating. (Laugh- ter.) Mr Davies, Wernddu, thought it was bettar for the landlord and tenant, that the farm should not be let too dear (laughter and cheers), because a farmer with in- sufficient capital could not carry on his farm well. The Chairman -Does your landlord rent your farm too dear P (Laughter.) Mr Jones, Cwmbasset, in a humorous English speech, expressed a fear that half the Agricultural Chamber had one foot in the Lunatic Asylum. (Langhter.) Mr Lloyd, Blaenau—I happen to hold a little land on lease, and a little as a yearly tenant, and my experience comes to this—that I have much more confidence in improving the land which 1 hold under a lease than that which I hold as a yearly tenant. (Cheers.) Mr Davies, Canton Brewery, was in favour of leases, as being better than yearly tenancies. He hoped to see the matter discussed more fully at the Chamber of Agriculture. Mr Carver said that if he was one alluded to as having ono foot in the Asylum, he could only say to Mr Jones that if one went, let all go together, and if they did not like it, they could escape, as many had before. (Much laughter) Mr Thomas, Pentredavies, said they ought to inquire into the characters of their landlords, before taking a farm just as much as the landlords enquired into the tenants' characters. He had moved five times, and had only a notice to quit once, and that was from Mr Gulston. [Laughter.] He had a farm now, God knew it was dear enough, but they would never turn him out, nor the old woman and the boys either, as long as they did their duty by the farm, and paid the rent. [Cheers.] You are right, Mr Footman stick to that. [Loud cheering.] We have as good a right to ask the character of our landed proprietors as they have to ask for our characters." [Loud cries, and shouts of applause.] When a man applied for a farm, there was a solemn consultation, and then it was Ah, he seems a very good man;" "call up again in a few days my man." What was that for? Why, to look into the man's character. He did not agree with leases they lived under good masters, and had no need of leases. [Loud cheering.] Mr Brodie, who was loudly cheered, spoke in some fearfulness, for the asylum was before him, and there was a man handy, for blowing them all up when they made mistakes (laughter.) Mr Footman had put a power of good sense into few words he almost agreed with everything that had been said. But Mr Footman had neglected the subject of capital. No farmer ought to look for land unless he had capital sufficient to im- prove it. Every man who did that might pay for his land, and make it pay; if he neglected that, he soon found his ,balance on the wrong side of the book. He had always felt that there was no harm in speaking out publicly. When a man went far from home for a farm, lie was apt to be too easily satisfied with almost any farm he looked on. He advised every man to get some local information before he tendered for a farm (cheers.) He agreed that they had just as much need to enquire into the character of their landlords as the landlords bad to enquire into the character of the tenants (ap- plause.) He heard of a case yesterday, (of course he would not mention names), where a tenant not 20 miles from Llandilo was eaten to death by rabbits (hear, hear.) Fancy any man knowing that and allowing it. His advice was — a lease if possible if they could not get a lease, the next thing was to look well after their landlord, and get a good one. Mr Lloyd was in a position to speak of the system by lease and by yearly tenancy, and he told them that he felt very careless about the land which he held under a yearly tenancy. It was in the nature of man that it should be so. The tenant could not do justice to himself or the farm with- out looking before him. No man laid' down a field thinking it was going to pay him the first year he looked forward for two or three years at least. How dare he do that under a yearly tenancy ? It appeared to him that no man ought to put himself in the position of a yearly tenant if he could help it. Death might occur either to the tenant or the landlord and there was a probability that, in either case, the family of the tenant would receive no benefit from the money which had been laid out on the farm, or very little. Again, just as a farmer has got his plant together, his stock, his cattle, his implements, and his machinery, a quarrel might arise, as it often happened, on trivial points, and the farmer might get notice to quit in six months. How could he realize the money which his stock in trade had cost him ? Not in one case out of fifty would he realize his capital in less than two years after he entered the farm. His last advice was-when you have got a fair bargain, stick to it (cheers.) A rolling stone seldom gathers moss, neither does a tenant improve his pocket or his character much by roving about (applause.) Mr D. Prosser asked leave to diverge from the subject for a moment, as he wished to say a few words on the visit of the club to Llandilo (cheers.) They had been talking about it for a long time, and now they were very glad to have come amongst such hearty good fellows as they had met that day. It was very en- couraging, too, to have more than 22 new members (cheers.) They had never had a larger gathering 40 was about the average. They were told that the club would go to the dogs now that it had come to Llandilo; but there were a great many men whom they could very well spare. (The Chairman Don't mention anybody, pray laughter.) No he would not do that; but they came to the dinner and waited for the raffle, and after they had been twelve months members they said Oh, we have got nothing here for a long time, and we are going to withdraw" (much laughter.) They never looked after the cultivation of their minds, and getting a little information from their brother farmers all they stopped for was the dinner and the raffle. Their meet- ings were for the improvement of the mind, and the raffle was only an encouragement to the club he had been a member for 15 years, and had not won anything for a long time now, but he had been greatly benefitted in his mind. They could easily spare 20 or 30 of such fellows as he had alluded to, especially as they had come among such a lot of long-winded fellows as they had found at Llandilo. He hoped that the club would be improved by its visit, and would come there once a year. Saturday was an objectionable day, but for many years in future the fair would be held on Mondays. As to the subject for discussion, he said-take a farm cheap enough (laughter.) It was a difficult thing to do, but how could they manage a farm that was When his father took the farm he lived in, he took crops out of many places and did not get more than the seed, and had only the straw to pay the rent the expense of getting them into good order was very heavy. He was almost daunted at it, but he stuck, and improved it, had the wet land trained, and manured it thoroughly and now it showed the benefit of that pains. A farm paid, when in good order. The average number of farms were considered too dear but it was not the landlord's fault at all farms were run out. Men took three or four crops out of a field and then they blamed the land- lord. They gave a crop of seed, and expected to take a good crop of clover, after a crop of white. Many farmers considered a farm very cheap because they farmed badly. As to rabbits, he was glad to find that Lord Cawdor, Mr Puxley, and Mr Bath, considered them as veimin. (Cheers Mr Carver: "They are real vermin.") It was only those who suffered from rabbits who felt the mischief. Rabbits should not be given to keepers, as they ruined the land, somehow or other. One couple of rabbits would breed 40 in the year. (A voice: "100"; another voice: "From 80 to 100.") If 20 couples were kept on a farm it was enough to ruin a man. He hoped in a tew years, we should get rid of the destructive animal. Mr Carver thought tenants should kill rabbits by nets and ferrets but not by guns, because they might be tempted to kill the pheasants. Mr J. L. Philipps, who was cheered, bore testimony to the excellence of Mr Footman's observations, but hoped they would not go away believing that they had heard all the truth. Mr Footman had taken the tenant's view of the question. They should consider that in taking and letting a farm the interest was mutual. It was t^ he interest of one party to get the very best possible tenant, and the other to get the very best possible landlord. Ihe landlord could select his tenant, but the tenant could not always select his landlord for although there are plenty of tenants, there are not plenty of farms, and the tenant must take the farm which is to be let. The land- lord should take care that the tenant is not only respec- table, but has plenty of capital. Was it not notorious that out of 20 tenants who took farms, 10 of them bad deficient capital. (Cheers, and No). There were so many competitors for a farm that landlords could not be too careful in selecting tenants, and after all their care they were taken in. As a tenant himself, he asked them if there were not more bad tenants than bad landlords. A landlord knowing that, it was his interest to be care- ful to got a good one, a man with capita!, and also principle. (Cheers). He must take care that tho tenant shall not run out the land. That fault was one of the great reasons why landlords refused leases—tenants did not do justice to the land for the last few years. (Cries of disapprobation, and Bosh.") Did the tenant leave the leased farm as he took it ? He said, no, in nine cases out of ten. In taking a farm both parties should be careful to get the best possible terms and no man had a right to complain of his landlord if he had not enqui- red as to his landlord's character before taking the farm. It was much easier to get the character oi a landlord, than the character of a tenant. (Cheers). As to leases, a landlord could get plenty of people to take his farms on the terms he proposed that the more they did jus- tice to the land the better they would find the landlord, in most cases. (Disapprobation and cheers.) He said to them-do not go about the country, and do not turn this club into an arena for running down landlords. The landlords supported the club, and were proud to see it flourishing. It was a good institution for tenant farmers, and many had adopted improved systems of cultivation by listening to the discussions. The Club had benefitted landlords as well as tenants. It was the tenants' own fault if they took farms from bad landlords. If they had suspicion about their landlords, let them get a lease if they could not get a lease let them refuse the farm. Let them not go about looking for farms which they never intended to keep, but to work out, and then leave. Many men who took farms never meant to keep them. Landlords and tenants were in the same boat; if one went down so did the other if tenants went on in opposition to their landlords there was no chance of their getting on in their farms. Mr Brodie was understood to object to something Mr Philipps had.said. Mr Philipps said that in talking of taking a farm they must talk of the landlord. They should also have an eye to the quality of the land, enquire about rates, taxes, tithes, etc. The end aimed at by both parties should be to make an arrangement which would turn out to the mutual advantage of landlord and tenant. Dr Hopkins said that in speaking of long leases, they were apt to forget that the population of the country, living on farms increased to nearly double, whereas the the land did not increase at all except by improvement therefore a lease of 21 years on land which might be exceedingly dear to-day, might be exceedingly cheap at the end of 21 years, A 21 years' lease was not good for the farmer or the tenant, unless the farmer gave security that during the whole course of the lease he would im- prove the land in the usual way, and maintain it, and in that case it would be a question as to what the land would be worth. They would bear him out that land at the present price was let so as not to pay more than 3 per cent. on its value. If that were so, there could be no robbery of tenants by landlords. The fault he found with Mr Footman was that he leaned too much to the side of the tenant and too little to the side of the land- lord. There was a doctrine being inculcated in Eng- land, and quite proclaimed in Ireland, that of Tenant Right," which was that the tenant had a right to make what sort of improvement he liked on land which he did not own, an d when he left the farm he expected to be allowed for improvements, on the making of which he never consulted his landlord. Very often that land might belong to a maiden lady or a widow and child. Improvements to be allowed for ought to be made by mutual consent and all improvements, whether by manure, seed, or high cultivation of any kind ought to be allowed for, if made by consent of the landlord. A 14 years' lease would be most equitable for both parties, because a man's family, from whom he had great ex- pectations in the way of assistance, might die, or other events might occur to make him desirous of getting out of the farm; in such a case he would be as badly off under a 21 years' lease, aq he is now under an annual tenancy. In colliery concerns there was a chance to go out by giving proper notice supposing that in the case of a 21 years' lease of a farm, two years' notice to go out would be sufficient; that would remove a great difficulty. The great object was to get fair play for landlord and tenant, and not let one ride over the other to cultivate as much honesty, integrity, and stright-forward dealing as possible. He was happy to say that the landlords of the county who were content to be paid only 3 per cent. on the value of their money were no pawnbrokers, no middle men, but the most liberal of any class to be found in the community. (Hisses). That was either truth or untruth, if he spoke untruth he was open to contradiction. If landlords only got 3-k per cent. on the value of their property there was no robbery on their part. (Hisses.) He advised them to cultivate a good understanding between them- selves and the landlords, and make a fair agreement, just as they would if they were buying or selling an ox. Let them behave honourably and honestly, and they need not fear the result. Mr Jones, Derwydd, preferred confidence between landlords and tenants, to either agreement or lease. (Cheers.) If there was any doubt as to the landlord the tenant had a right to ask for an agreement or lease. If the landlord had doubts about his tenant he ought to bind him down by an agreement A tenant on taking a farm should enquire as to the rent, taxes, tithes, &c. He should then consider if his capital was sufficient to cultivate the farm well; if it was not, his stock would be small or his cultivation poor. A tenant should always try to get the best possible land. The wet, sterile soil some of them had was too dear at the present I rental, and with such soil, one did not know when to get it cheap enough. On a farm of that sort, you were obliged to make summer follow (" Bad farming,") and lose a year's rent and taxes. (Dr r Hopkina Two years' rent for one years' produce." Then you had to manure it, cart your manure and lime, plough it four times, before you could make it a good summer fallow, and harrow it too and it would come to an expense of £7 or X8 an acre. After laying all that money out, you would get a very miserable crop, perhaps but on good land it iwould pay them to spend money on it. They should consider the situation of the farm, the con- veniences, such as roads, and above all, whether it was well watered as if water was deficient the cattle had to be dragged from place to place, and it kept them back. (Cheers). Mr D. Thomas, Derllys, agreed with most of Mr Footman's remarks, but be bad overlooked one subject —what an incoming tenant ought to take to from an outgoing tenant. That subject would have brought out some very useful suggestions. He called attention particularly to compensation for manure, seeds, and work done on the farm. The subject would bear dis- cussion in future. Mr Thomas, Pontcowin, said a good farmer required security for his outlay (cheers ) If a farm would pay for working at all, it would pay for working well (cheers.) If not worked well, it would not pay at all. They wanted a new system of letting the land. He went dead against letting it by tender (cheers Scotch system" Mr J. L. Philipps Highest bidder shall be the purchaser.") Exactly and it did not matter how the money was made so long as it was had. There were men-he could not call them farmers, for they were not worthy of the name who offered It long price, more than they could possibly make out of the land and had to fall back upon jobbing about the country, to make up the rent. Tenants should go dead against landlords who let their farms in that way, they ought to form a committee, and any tenant farmer that took land in that way ought to be sent out (loud laughter and cries of To Coventry," &c.) Such a system was no encouragement but a discouragement to good farmers it was only an encouragement to auctioneers (laughter.) Land had got to too high a standard at present, and few could make their money out of it. He was surprised to hear Mr Jones, of Derwydd, say what he did (laughter a voice Got a good landlord now" cheers), because Mr Jones well knew how he bad been served (laughter.) The re- marks of Mr Thomas, Pentredavies, showed them that they should be careful to enquire into the character of their landlords. They wanted men of the stamp of Lord Cawdor (cheers); he was very glad to see his lordship's speech at the Pembroke Farmers' Club last week (cheers.) They would never require leases with such men as Lord Cawdor. (A Voice And Lord Dynevor.") Yes, and Lord Dynevor. Their tenantry never asked for a lease, and it would be considered almost an insult to broach such a thing. If they had such landlords generally, there would be better farm- ing in the country farmers would be better men, and everything connected with the business would be on a more satisfactory footing. He then suggested the offering of prizes by landlords, for the best system of farming. (A Voice According to their means.") No; for if a man had little means he ought not to take a farm above his means. Such prizes would have a very beneficial effect on the country. Some gentleman had said that some tenants had an aver- sion to seeing their landlords, and did not wish to live near them. He could only say that he should like to have his landlord live next door to him, and to see him very often (cheers), especially if he was a good sort (laughter.) Mr Thomas, Tyllwyd, agreed that leases should bo had, generally speaking, but he did not require one, as he lived under a good landlord, and was not afraid to lay out as much money as he could—thousands if he had got them. He had only lived under two land- lords, and had not received notice to quit, as both be and the landlord had confidence in each other. lie would never wish for a lease, under a good landlord. Mr Thomas, Maesyprior, thought that the whole depended on the tenant farmers. They should make all proper enquiries, and have plenty of confidence in the landlord. If he had no confidence in the landlord, he could never work his farm properly. The better a farmer worked his farm, the more he would receive from his landlord. There had been BO much said about j "r .6 bad landlords that he should like to hear a better name for them. As to leases, there were many changes on an estate; a landlord sold part of his estate, or he died then leases were valuable. Mr Lewis, Llwynfedwen, thought they had gone from the subject, as well as himself. The best system of taking land was (A voice Don't take it too dear," laughter another voice and work it well when you have got it;" laughter;) He had another remark to make, and that was (A voice: "Live and let live;" laughter ;) He agreed with that of course; tli,), wanted a better system of taking land, but under the present law they could not have it. Ho wished Mr Footman had gone into the subject more practically, and stated how many pounds ought to be expended on so many acres, in certain modes of cultivation. (Hear. hear). He hoped to hear the subject discussed more deeply by the Chamber of Agriculture, and that a great many farmers from Llandilo would would go down to Carmar- then at the next meeting of the Club and that the dinner would be held in time fur them to return by the evening train. Mr W. E. 11. liwynn who was loudly cheered, said the subject had been so well introduced and so thoroughly ventilated that there was little left to say. Mr Footman had put the matter very practicably before them, but had been rather hard on the landlords, and he should not like it to go forth to the public as the opinion of the club that they had such a very small amount of confidence in the landlords of the country generally, (Mr Lewis, Llwynfedwen: No, certainly not,") because, as a rule, landlords were good honest, straightforward men. (Cheers; and disapprobation). Of course, there were exceptions, but in our country they were fortunate that the exceptions were very few and far between. It was said they had diverged from the subject by talking about leases but he thought a lease was a very essen- tial and important part of taking a farm. (Cheers). His own opinion with regard to leases was very decided- he would never recommend a man of capital to take a farm without a lease. (Cheers). Although he might take a farm from a landlord in whom he had every confidence, still life was so verv uncer- tain that he did not know when he might have to (,hangebis landlord-and indeed, it was very unfortu- nate, but good landlords :eemed to die faster than bad ones. (Hear, hear.) At all events, they were very much more regretted and missed when they died. Men were sometimes apt to sell portions of their property, because it was involved, or because they wished to invest it in a more profitable manner; or a landlord sold a portion of one estate to purchase another piece of property in a different part of the country for the sake of making his estate more complete. Many reasons led to changes of ownership, and then the tenants suffered. No man, particularly if he had a family, was justified in spending large sums of money in the improvement of property on which he had not the slightest claim, and which he was at any time liable to leave owing to a turn of fortune. He was glad the con- versation had taken such a practical turn, and that at their first meeting at Llandilo they bad had so good a discussion. Great fault had been found with them for coming to Llandilo, and he had been blamed for voting for it; but he did so because he thought they ought to extend the club as much as possible, and of late tho meetings had not been so well attended as they should have been. The fever appeared to have cooled a little, and people were not so fond of hearing their own voices as they used to be. For these reasons he voted for the extension of the Club, and was gratified that they had met with such flattering success He hoped to see the Club there again this time next year, and that the attendance would be equal to the present one. (Cheers.) Mr Footman said he believed the yearly tenants would farm much better, if they had a lease, than they farmed now. Mr J. L. Philipps-Nearly everything depends on the tenant. Mr Footman-Upon a good farm, and with a good tenant and landlord, a lease would be just to both. Mr J. L. Philipps-I am a tenant from year to year. Mr Footman—Everybody must agree that a good tenant and a good landlord would both be better under a lease. Mr J. L. Philipps-I have been on my farm 25 years. A Farmer- I know I should be a great deal better off if I had a lease. The discussion here closed, and the proceedings terminated by the toast, Prosperity to the Farmers' Club.