The Pontypridd Chronicle and Workman's News

tORD BATTERSEA AT PONTYPRIDD. HE COMES WITH MR ALFRED THOMAS, M.P. RECEPTION AT THE LIBERAL CLUB. DEMONSTRATION AT THE NEW TOWN HALL. STIRRIN6 S PEECHES BY LORD BATTER- SEA, MR ALFRED THOMAS, M.P., ALDERMAN GWILYM EVANS, J.P., MR RHYS WILLIAMS, J.P., AND OTHERS. LORD SALISBURY CRITLBLSED. DISESTABLISHMENT FOR WALES. THE FUTURE ACTION OF WELSH MEMBERS. Lord Battersea. Mr Alfred Thomas, M.P., Aid. Gwilym Evans J.P ,and Mr LewisWilliams, J.P., received » flattering rejection on Thursday even- ing last. Th3 party first of all made their ap- pearance at the Liberal Club, where a large num- ber of the members had collected to give them a hearty reception. Councillor Hopkin Smith Davies, as the presi- dent of the club, said he bad to offer them the heartiest welcome of the club, the members of which had very great pleasure in receiving them that evening. The club was started three or four years ago for the purpose of educating young I Liberals and not. as many other clubs, for drink- ing purposes. (Hear, hear.) They had no drink- ing customs on the premises. (Applause.) They provided them with lectures, debates and concerts and they also had a small ^nucleus of a library, but unfortunately their (financial position was not such as to enable the club committee to provide a very large library. They were not, however, disheartened and they had recently sent out invitations to their strongest friends asking them to present the library with a few books, and he had no doubt the response would be a hearty rone. He had great pleasure in welcoming them to the club. (Cheers.) Lord Battersea, who was warmly received, said they were extremely tlattered by the kind reception. He felt that when he took his seat in the Upper House he must have shocked a good many of the English Peers, but he would have his friends know that even in the House of Lords there were sheep as well as goats. (Cheers and laughter.) Nothing had given him greater pleasure than, when the vote was taken on the Home Rule Bill.to have voted that day in a small minority for the right against a vast majority for the wrong. (Loud applause.) Clubs of this sort, whether Liberal or Conservative, were essentials -for the well being of parties. (Hear, hear.) Literature was an iirportant point in the forma- tion of the history of the country and he was glad to find that they had started a library in connection with the club. Although it was not his duty to speak for others, he could say it would give him great pleasure and he would feel it a, great honour, if, on his return, he would be allowed to fend them a few books. Loud ap- plause.) The period during which he represented the Brecon boroughs wa, the happiest years of his hie, and the return to Wales was like a return to old friends and an old home. (Cheers.) He could assure them that he was only too happy to do anything he could to further the interest of their important and, he believed,most useful club. (Loud applause.) Alderman Gwilym Evans, J.P., said he had come to Pontypridd at the request of Mr Alfred Thomas, and he was very glad he had come, for he could see how Mr Thomas was respected in one of the most active political centres in the Principality. (Applause.) When he returned to Llanelly he would have seen and learnt many things which he would not forget to give his friends at Lla icily the benefit of. (Applause.) Mr Rhys Williams, J.P., and Mr Lewis Wil- liams, J.P., also spoke. Mr Alfred Thomas said he did not expect to be called upon to speak at a the club where he con- sidered himself a niember. He was one of them and he was glatt to see such a number present, and of course they would have many more when they went to the hall. (Cheers.) It was a pleasure to him to see the club prospering, and they couid expect in the very near future to see the Pontvp~idd Liberal Club i'bne of the best in Wales. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the library, he might say that it would be a pleasure to him and a duty devolving upon him to enhance its value. (Applause.) THE DEMONSTRATION AT THE NEW TOWN HALL. t A move was then made to the New town Hall, which was already well tilled with an enthusiastic audience, who heartily cheered the prominent Liberals as they made their appearance on the platform. The chair was occupied by Mr Rhys Williams, J.P., of Mi:-kin Manor, who was ac- companied by Mrs Gwilym Williams, Miss Wil- liams, and Me Ieõtvn Williams,who were hesrtily received. In addition to the gentlemen named, there were also on the platform Mr E. W. Daniel. Merthyr Vale Mr Charles Morgan, secretary of the East Glamorgan Association Mr Joseph M. ¡ Thomas, hon. sec. of the Liberal Club Mr D. Arnott, Mr James Roberts, T forest Mr John Griffiths, ;,Porth Mr E. Samuels, B.A., Porth Alderman Walter H. Morgan, Pontypridd Councillors H. S. Davies and W. Sioickett, and OtL-zs. THE SPEECHES. \i MR RHYS WILLIAMS, J.P. The Chairman, who was heartily cheered, said My Lord, ladies and gentlemen,—It affords me much pleasure to occupy, by the courtesy of the Liberal Associaticn of East Glamorgan, the proud position of chairman of this magnificent gathering That pleasure is accentuated by the fact that I am privileged to make my first ap- pearance on a political platform in such distin- guished company. (Hear, hear.) And, moreover, I in the constituency of my esteemed friend Mr Alfred Thomas, than whom there is not to be found a more honourable, more straightforward j or reliable representative of Liberal opinions in the House of Commons. (Applause.) Ladies and gentlemen,-It is not my province, nor would it be seemly in me, who am just entering upon political life, to dilate upon the several important measures which constitute the programme of the Liberal party. I leave that to our member, to Lord Battersea, who is with us to-night, and to that good sound Liberal, Mr Gwilym Evans, knowing that from men of their experience we shall hear much that will tend to enlighten us on the past achievements, ana enable us to place the most unqualified confidence in the future con- duct, of the leaders of our party. (Cheers.) I would, however, crave your indulgence tc say a word to those of you who, like myself, are enter- ing upon life and have to make their choice as to which great party in the state they decide to sup- port. I hold that it is a duty cast on. every citizen of this great nation to take a part more or less prominent as circumstances permit in the making of our laws. (Cheers.) If that is so then it is also a solemn duty imposed on us all to I satisfy ourselves, First, which party in the State is by its past achievements the most likely to make such laws as will confer the greatest benefit on the whole community, and secondly, who are the men, who as our representatives in Parliament, can be best relied on to support Ministers in their endeavour to make these law s ? (Hear, hear.) Before deoiding the first of these two questions, it is necessary to made a careful study of the past history of the two parties, and this I have endeavoured to do, and, having done so, I find that in the majoritj of instances those measures which had for their object (and which have since achieved that object) the benefiting of the greatest number of the population of this country have been passed by a Liberal Govern- ment. (Loud applause.) It is true that some highly beneficial measures have been passed by a Tory or Conservative Govarnment, but I am of opinion that this to a great extent was due to the prior action of the Liberals ic preparing the way for the passing of those measures, and in showing the other side that if they wished to govern the country at all they must meet the just demands of the constituencies. (Hear, hear.) That being so, I decided to throw in my lot with the party of progress because it is to that party, and that party alone, we may look with any degree of hope for the pass- ing of measures of Reform and of beneficial legislation generally. (Applause.) Now I know that here at Pontypridd you take a warm interest in political matters, and not only a warm interest but an intelligent interest, and that being so there is no fear, when you consider the questions which are engaging the attention of our statemen and our representatives in Parliament, but that you will come to just conclusions and will not fail to give effect to them when you are called upon to record your votes. (Hear. hear.) I know that for some time past you or some others who are resident in this district have been treated to dis- courses by gentlemen who are members of the opposite party. One of these gentlemen does not seem to hold a very exalted opinion of what he is pleased to term the "Average Radical Intelli- gence." Well, ladies and gentlemen, ray only reply to this gentleman is that the average Radical Intelligence is. always credited with knowing on which side of the bread the butter is. (Laughter and applause.) And I wculd like this scornful gentleman to attend a meeting when the average Radical discusses the measures which ire proposed by either of the great parties governing the country. If he accepted the invitation, I am persuaded that his views would be materially altered, and that he would come to the conclusion that all political intelligence, at any rate, is not possessed by the party upon whom he bestows the light of his countenance or assists by his superior intellligence. (Laughter and applause.) But in spite of the efforts of the other side, you need not fear that that the Radical Party in this division is being undermined because some weak- kneed members transfer their allegiance to the Tories, tempted by the idea of rubbing shoulders with ruling councillors and of partaking of tea and muffins with the dame-) of the Primrose League. (Laughter.) This class of person .ve can well spare, for their principles have always been of the most invertebrate kind, and instead of being a source of strength they have always been a sourca of weakness to the pany whom they have now deserted. (Hear, hear.) I think you will agree with me that the result of the last attack on the seat of Mr Alfred Thomas proves conclusively that the Radical intelligence is not so dull as to require the assistance of these dames or their squires in arriving at a conclusion on things political. (Hear, hear.) They are the people who like Sir William Marrntt on Monday last,at Car- diff, imagine that the ignorance of the electors is so appalling as to require to be enlightencl and educated by the guileless agents of that party which has been known for centuries as the dull party. (Applause) The Liberals of this county can walk alone. They are not political children. They can form their own opinions, and are able to choose men like Mr Alfred Thomas to represent their views and assist in placing on the Statute Book laws which tend to benefit the whole com- munity bv destroying abuses and by building up the constitution of this country on broad and far- reaching line3—based upon the principle of accor- ding to every citizen his just and propar part in the management of the affairs of our g.'eat country. (Loud applause.) Gentlemen, I have detained you long enough. You are eager to know -and rightly eager-to hear our distinguished guest, Lord Battersea. (Cheers.) It is the opinions of a man like him that give us a clearer insight into politics, a man who has for vears been the confidant and right hand m.1il of Mr Gladstone. (Loud applause.) A man who has for years done yeoman service in the House of Commons, and who now, as a member of the House of Lords, is not above working with might and main for his party and his country. (Prolonged cheering). It It is from men like him that we get a glimpse of the inner circle of politics, that we get, so to speak, a private view of that great; play that is being acted night after night at St Stephen's— a play whose interest never flag. for its plot is the life of our age, and its conclusion awaited with breathless interest throughout the civilized world. (Loud applause.) COUNCILLOR H. S. DAVIES. j Councillor H. S. Davies, in moving the first resolution said Mr Chairman, My Lord, ladies and gentlemen,—Before I read the resolu- tion I have in my hand I have very much pleasure in congratulating our chairman on the position he occupies to-night, and sincerely hope that he will have a long life, and that we shall S3e him fill, in this district, equally as prominent and impor tant a part as his father has and is doing. Ap- plause.) The resolution which has been entrusted to me is an omnibus resolution and reads as follows :— "That this meeting expresses its unabated con- fidence in Mr Gladstone and his administration and its approval of the efforts made to carry out the Newcastle Programme, and urges the Govern- ment to do all in its power to pass the two Bills now before the House, viz.. the Employers Liability and Parish Councils Bills, and to in- troduce and press forward a thorough Registra- tion Bill at an early date. This meeting furt er declares that the time has arrived when the de- mands of Wales should receive the attention of the Government, and that a Bill dealing with Disestablishment and Disendowment of the Church in Wales may have first place in the pro- gramme for the next Session." -(Applause.) I have very great pleasure in pro- posing this resolution, and I am sure you do not expect a speech from me, but I may say that any liberal minded man,"rho has followed the course the Government have takøn since they have been in cffice, cannot help feeling that they deserve the confidence of the country. (Cheers ) Some of us have read, and others heard, what Lord Salis bury se.id at Cardiff on Tuesday night. Lord Salisbury pretends not to understand what the Government can be after—v'Laughter)—he can- not understand what the Government are doing or what they propose doing. The Radicals, with their intelligence have already understood what the Government mean to do. They are now simply clearing the boards in order to have plenty of place for free action with the Home Rule Bill -and the Disestablishment Bill next session. (Cheers.) I sincerely hope they will be able be- fore the Christmas holidays to gat those Bills, they have now under consideration, out of the way to have a free chance of going on with the Home Rule Bill next session. (Applause.) MR DANIEL ARNOTT. Mr Daniel Arnott seconded the resolution and said: Mr Chairman, ladies and gentlemen.-It is not my intention to inflict a speech upon you, as I have come before such a leading light as Lord Battersea, one of the greatest men in the Liberal Party. (Cheers.) 1 would only say that the present Government is the most Radical Govern- ment we have ever had, and deserve the utmost support the country can give them, and it is the sincere hope of every Liberal that these measures will be pushed through, and no obstruc- tion, or playfulness, or vexatious occurrences will prevent them becoming law. (Hear, hear.) I am sure the country from one end to the other will support the Government and show them that the voice of the people is on their side. I have very great pleasure in seconding the proposition. (Hear, hear.) The Chairman, in introducing Lord Battersea, said: I need hardly tell you who Lord Bitter sea is. As Mr Cyril Flower he did his duty well, and now as Lord Battersea we know he will do it still. (Hear, hear.) He is not like some mem- bers of the House of Commons who, after being transplanted, seem to forget to which party they belong. We have the utmost confidence in him, and he will give the Liberal party his most earnest support. (Loud chbers.) LORD BATTERSEA. Lord Battersea, whose rising was the signal for a loud outburst of applause 11 which lasted for several minutes said: Mr Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, I cannot begin my speech without in the first instance thanking you most sincerely for the kind and enthusiastic manner in which you have been good enough to greet me—a reseption which I really feel I do not deserve at your hands (Cries of aYe" yes.") And, secondly, Mr Chair- man, I hope I shall not cause you to blush, when I venture to congratulate you, and this meeting, and Wales upon the fact that you should so ably, at so comparatively voung a period in your life, advocate the great principles which I am sure later on, you will supoort. (Cheers.) As I am passing to the vale of years you are coming on, and before long I hope we shall find you not only a sound Radical candidate, but a sound Radical member. (Loud apolause.) Mr Thomas wants no assistance from me or from any other mem- ber of either House, for the simple reason that he for many years, in the House and out of it, has consistently and persistent'y voted, and spoken, and fought for the great nrinciples which we be- lieve in. (Applause.) Soeaking from a long ex- perience of the House of Commons, I can only say that your worthy member never required the sound of my whip. He was always ready and willing to vote and to fight for the Principles to which I have alluded. (Loud Cheers.) The re- solution seems to me of the greatest impor ance, not only to Wales, but to the whole country at large. (Hear, hear.) I hardly thought I should have to speak after such a great orator as Lord Salisbury. He is one of the chief, if not the chiefest. of orators. Not only were the Liberal party disappointed, but the Tory party must also have been cruelly disappointed by the speech of Lord Salisbury, for of all the dull speeches I have ever read, the speech delivered the other day at Newport certainlv took the first prize. (Laughter.) If there is one thing that a Radical expected it was that Lord Salisbury would put bis foo, in it. As a rule he says some glaring indiscretion, w IC L ;s the capital and stock in trade of every Liberal candidate all over the country. He calls some- body "Hottentots"—(laughter)—or calls them "black men." Or he discusses parish councils, and savs that the only thing to amuse or to edu- cate the village peasant is a circus. But this time he gave us no lights, no points, bu w^a simply unutterablv and excruciatingly u (Cheers.) Now let us speak seriouslv of these great questions and about Lord Salisbury s soeeches, for after all there are only two partles- the Liberals and the Conservatives—and it is for the great electorates to consider which party they are g.1ing to follow, and under which banner they are going to serve. I say that the policy of Lord Salisbury as expounded at Newport is no polley at all. (Hear hear.) He comes to Cardiff in the vear 1893, having been at Newport not so many vears a*o. and for the first time in our lives we are told that Cardiff is in danger from an enemy's fleet. Laughter.) What fleet, Lord Salwb-uy did not tell us. but he simply bid all the ladies of the Primross League to pack up their jewels, and to mind to put their houses in order for fear of the approach of the enemy's fleet, and al t e people cheered as if the enemy s fleet vrev y in sight. (Laughter.) Whv, it remmdsme of a scene in a plav by Sheridan, T e which a mad lady cams upon the stage^ white satin with her hair down, an I,1? handkerchief, declaring "I see, I see n p approaching. I see the loose saIl shiverin,, the wind." and then someone camo tapping her on the shoulder saying, "Hush, hush, my child the Spanish fleet thou cans't not see because, be- cause it is not vet in sight." (Laughter.) Lord r Salisbury, as the leader of what is pleased to f call itself the Constitutional party, urges that be- cause the House of Lords had tmown ouu ie Home Rule measure it is the duty of the House Commons to dissolve Parliament, and to go to the people. Anything more unconstitutional, anything more unreasonable, anything more contrary to the history and to the custom of England, Scot- land, t Ireland has never before been propounded by any responsible statesman. Mr Gladstone will appeal to the country when Mr Gladstone thinks fit. and not when Lord Salisbury thinks right. (Hear, heai:.) Mr Gladstone will appeal to the country, not when defeated in the xiouse ot Lords, but when defeated in the House of Com- mons. (Loud cheers.) With a compact majority at his back, and that majority an increasing one at his back, and that majority an increasing one in the House of Commons and in the country, jlr Gladston.e will not dissolve until he has done the work which he has set; himself to do. (Loud ap- plause.) I, as a Liberal candidate at the last general election, and every Liberal candidate throughout the country, pledged ourselves as honourable men, as members of an Honourable party, to leave no stone unturned to carry out certain questions of reform which I will inst touch upon. In the firs!; instance that Home Rule must be passed. (Applause ) We arc pledged to the wincinleq of Home Rule for Ire- land." (Cheers.) What does the principle of Home Rule mean? I differ from Lard SUisbury in his views. It simply means that in the closing decade of the nineteenth century the sensible por- tion of the democracy are in favour of giving to Ireland the right of governing that country by their own constitutionally electerl representatives. To manage their own affairs and to control their own local affairs. ^Applause.) We want it so that we can get Home Rale for England, and Wales, and Scotland. But Lord Salisbury thinkg it is dead Why, if it is dead, does Lord Salisbury want to rake up its ashes, n,nd why does he not cry "Let the dead bury its dead." (Cheers.) The ghost of Home Rule haunts the TIon,e of Lords and the House of Commons, and Lord Salisbury, and that was the reason why his speech was so melancholy. One reason why Lord Salisbury sat upon the fence—if I may use such an expression— was because he thought it was his duty to do what is generally called "mark time." He makes a speech that pledges him to nothing a.t all. He leads the Tories so that they will not go backward nor forward, and that is what exactly suits the Tory partv and the Tory mind. If I was a horti- culturist instead of a Flower—(laughter)—I should say that the Tory party were, at the present moment, what is called "damping off"—(laughter) —and I am convinced that no people went home ) more "damped off than the Tory party and the i Primrose dames whpn they left the meeting at the Drill Hall, where they had been marking time." (Cheers and laughter.) We ought to pity the un- fortunate Liberal Unionists and the Torv partv for thev live only ^n the fragments which fall from the Radical table, and the worst of it is they cannot even digest the fragments which have fallen. (Laughter.). For Lord Salisbury to they cannot even digest the fragments which I have fallen. (Laughter.). For Lord Salisbury to tell toe neople 0' Wales that the question of Parish Councils was a new one is historically un- true. As a matter of fact this bill is the same as that introduced ten years ago, but in ten years we have seen manv matters which we have found necessary for the perfection of the measure. (Ap- plause.) The measure is more or less the same as that which had the sanction of that ever great orator Mr Joseph Chamberlain when he was a Radical. In the Radical days of Mr Chamber- lain he was unknown to Lord Salisbury except as a Jack Cade. (Laughter.) The other day he was a Jack Cade, as Lord Salisbury called him, and Lord Salisbury was a "homicide" in the mouth of Mr Chamberlain, but now they are hail-fellows well met, and sa.y "We will agree to anything as long as we can dish the Radical party." All I can say is that this threat of a dissolution is one of the wildest and most absurd, if you chase it to its logical conclusion, that has ever been proposed. It means that the House of Lords is to have th3 right, not only on the question of Home Rule, but any other question which may be passed, to dis- solve Parliament. But we shall pass a great many more of these reforms in the Newcastle programme before we go to the people. (Applause.) I hope. and I believe, that this question of Employers' Liability is going to be one of the greatest reforms of the century. I believe it will influence more than anything else we have done in this Parlia- ment, the conditions between caoital and labour. (Applause.) It is the result of the unit^d opinion of the trades councils in this country, as expressed in 1876, and I want to kno.v what Government which represents the democratic party can do better than listen to the reforms re- quired by the Trades Councils of this great coun- try. (Applause.) The Bill makes it the duty of the employer to compensate any one of his people while in his service, and gives a man by law the right to compensation, which he now can only get through charity. In fact it places a man in a more independent position than ever he was be- fore. If the Tory party had passed that measure it would be their stock in trade for the next Par- liament, and for vears afterwards. The Parish Councils Bill, wnich Lord Salisbury pretends has never been before the people, is au old idea, b i" why do the Tories dislike the principle ? For the simple reason that it is another step in the direc- tion of local government, or Home Rule for Eng land. (Hear, hear.) They think that the people are incapable of governing, of right action, incap- able of justice, and lack common sense we think that the united commonsense of the people is worth all the knowledge of the House of Com- mons put together. (Cheers.) They dislike the idea because the result of the passing of the Bill will be to give to the agricul- tural labourers the right to manage their own affairs, give them better homes to dwell in, purer water to drink, better drains,better roofed houses, better floored houses and to purchase, near their homes, strips of land for agricultural purposes at a. cheap rate. (Applause.) This will sufficiently help tnem to maintain their wives and families in comparative comfort. (Applause.) Tnis is a great, good, important stepping stone towards the rights of the democracy and the freedom of the people. (Cheers.) Lord Salisbury said that Mr Gladstone imposed upon the Ridical party the dutv to pass these Bills, because he knew per- fectly well they would result in nothing, and be- cause it would cause the Government and the House to go ound and round and do no work. (Laughter.) My answer to that is, if the Bills are to result in nothing, why this unconscionable obstruction by the Tory party. (Cheers.) "Hie passing of the Parish Councils Bill will at least take the power out of the hands of the privileged few-out of the hands of the parson and sqllire- and hand it over to the people. (Cheers.) Let it also be clear that if the squire is ponular and in harmony with the people, the squire and thb parson will be the first members to be elected on the Parish Councils, but if they are not. then I say, and vou will say, that it is for the people to say who they will select as their own represeta- tives. (Hear, hear.) Then, Mr Chairman, Lord Salisbury turns round and says the people don't know what they want and have no knowledge of these affairs, and that it is simoly foolish to give them the management of their own affairs. ("Shame-") If people in the agricultural and other districts are capable of selecting a member of Parliament and vo,.e for Imperial affairs, they are ten thousand times more capable of looking after local matters in the village in which they live. (Cheers^ Proceeding to refer to the Dis- establishment question Lord Battersea. said :—Is it not a fact that we nav^ from the Principality 15 members to one, or 30 to two in favour of Dis- establishment of the Church in Wales, and yet Lord Salisbury speaks as if there was a doubt whether the majority of the people in Wales are in favour of it. (Laughter.) He said that we had a cansus of the Irish people before the Disestab- lishment of the Irish Church was decided upon. Why, when the Irish Church was disestablished there was not the majority or anything like the majority there is in Wales to-day. Let any man in any pert of Wales, with the exception of the two constituencies represented by Tories, stand before a Welsh audience and sav he is not in favour of Disestablishment, he will n^ver have a chance of being elected a member of Parliament. It is a shame to think that the Church of England in Wales is a Tory institution. I reason this question as a Churchman. The Established Church is as much the church of the Rilica! party as the church of the Torv Party, and I am just as good a churchman, and perhaps a better churchman, because I wish for the Disestablish- ment of the Church. (Applause.) If the Church is to be used as a political power and for one sec- tion of society it must be clear to any child that it is no longer a National Church, but the Church of the minority. (Hear, hear.) It would be well if Lord Salisbury had Siid one kind word at New- port to the Church, but not one did he say, and I sometimes think that perhaps on all the questions which Lord Salisbury said so little,he was leaving for himself an open hand in order that the Tory Democratic party in future might reserve it for themselves to bring in a Bill for giving Ireland Home Rule and for the Dises- tablishment of the Welsh Church. (Laughter.) Thev have done things quite as dis- honest before and if they get the opportunity I think it extremely likely that they will do more dishonest things in tha future. (Hear, hear.) Then Lord Salisbury went on to sneer at the idea of a Conciliation Board. I am of opinion chat at this moment when my noble relative. Earl Roseberry—(loud cheers)—has succeeded in settling the great coal strike, that Lord Salisbury should have selected such a moment to sneer at boards of arbitration or concliation is not only unstatesmanlike, but positively wicked (Ap- plause.) He has also taunted the Liberal party with being engaged in setting class against class, but the noble Marquis, when, at Cardiff, he called the Irish people, "our enemies across the chan- nel" did all in his power to set nation again nation. Then Lord Salisbury talks of our brethren in the North of Ireland. Yes, we recog- nize that TJIstermen are our brethren, but we have also to consider our brethren in the South and East and West of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) The minority in Ulster is to be considered. We are not going to sacrifice the liberty of the people in other parts of the country in order to satisfy the wealthy and their cupidity for enriching them- selves. In conclusion I thank you for the manner in which you have listened to me. I believe in the future of Wales. (Hear, hear.) I believe in -nrv its great possibilities. (Applause.) •'Cymry fydd," and "Calon wrth galon" are mottoes which it would have been well if Lord Salisbury had learnt before he came to Cardiff, and the next time he comes I recommend him to learn if he wants to influence his Welsh hearers. (Hear, hear.) His lordship concluded a most eloquent peroration with the following rhyme- I "Light lead yon, Truth speed you, God save the common weal." (Loud and prolonged applause.) MR ALFRED THOMAS, M.P. Mr Alfred Thomas, M.P., then rose to address the meeting, and was received with hearty cheers. He said My Lord Battersea, ladies and gentle- men. After the masterly oration we have just listened to, I am bound to say that I would much prefer to have gone home and pondered over the many good things we have heard. However, I have a duty to perform. (Applause.) I am glad that I am not expected to make a long speech to- night, but I cannot help congratulating you, Mr Chairman, were it only for the sake of your honoured father, upon your coming out into political life, and upon the very excellent address delivered by you this evening. (Applause.) It is very gratifying to me, and to everyone in this hall, to see the son of the most popular man in Gla- morganshire so worthily following in the foot- step-i cf his honoured father. I have nBver heard a better confession of faith in my life than that which you gave in your opening speech. (Ap- plause.) We are specially favoared this evening, also, in having among us a member of the House of Lords, who has not been spoiled by being trans- planted. (Laughter and applause.) I do not know why it is, but Her Majesty, at the instance of Mr Gladstone, has ennobled many gentlemen, who, somehow or other, in leaving the House of Commons for the House of Lords have forgotten a lot of what they used to profess-(laughter and "hear, hear")—either they belied all that they pre- viously professed—and they must have been sail- ing under false colours—or the atmosphere of the House of Lords was too much for them, and as Eoon as they entered the precincts of the gilded chamber their Liberalism was overcome, and they went over and joined the majority. (Laughter and "hear. hear.") But there are some men who are m'lole of sterner stuff, and I know of no one who has stood the test of transplanting so well as Lord Battersea. (Applause.) We all know that 40 noblemen were found determined to j show that although members of the House of 1 Lords thev were a'so members of the peoole. (Ap- I plause.) And certainly, so far as Lord Bitters^a I is concerned, he is as much a man of the people to-night as when he was the popular mem- f her for the Brecon boroughs. There is not much to answer in Lord Salisbury's speech at Cardiff, j but whatever there was has been answered by my noble friend. (Applause.) There is something very appropriate in Lord Battersea criticising the speech of Lord Salisbury. Noblemen miy say what thev like of one another. Our great bard says. "What would be rank blasphemy in the month of the common soldier would be only a hot choleric word in that of the officer." (Laughter.) But judging from the newspapers and the appearance "If the town. there was a drowsiness about the Cirdiff "demonstration" which was quite depres- sing even to those outs'de the pale of (Conser- vatism. (Laughter and "hear, hear.") I drove through the streets of Cardiff yesterday, and I saw a number of policemen but very few people, and it "emin led me of the experience of a certain tragedian who started in the Theatre Royal, Mer- thvr. He had beea acting for s^me months, and it was time to have a "benefit," so he placarded the town with annoiincementi-, and in order to have everything carried out properly he asked that a certain number of policemen be sent to manage the crowd. "Well," he said, in relating his experiences afterwards, "the policemen came, but the crowd did not." (Laughter.) That was very much the fact in connection with this last conference in Cardiff. It was an utter failure—the greatest failure I have ever known in the shape of a conference. I cannot help thinking of a con- ference held there some three vears ago—a very much more important one to Wales, and more in sympathy with the people of Wales. I am re- ferring to the conference presided over by my friend^Alderman Gwilym Evans, who has given us the pleasure of being present vith us this evening. (Applause) As to this Conservative conference, what struck most people in connec- tion with it was its utter want of sympathy with the asnirations of the people of Wales. So far as Cardiff was concerned, or Wales, the people would be no better or worse off if it had b::en a con- ference of people from Germany, Russia, or the Cannibal Islands. (Laughter and applause.) I have to speak to a resolution which expresses un- abated confidence in Mr Gladstone. (Applause.) I think that is about the best pnrase that could be used, for I don't know such an "unabated" man as Mr Gladstone in health, energy, and confi- dence in the success of the great work which he considers the only thing life is worth living for. I hope, and many of us hope, he may live for something else' besides, for we agree with the words of tne r3Solut'ion that tne time has now come for a Bill to 09 introduced for the Disestab- li=shment and Disendowment of the Church in WTales. (Great caearing.) This is a question upon which Welshmen feel most acutely, and it is to us the first question, though for the purposes of nartv discipline, we readily gave precedence to Irish Home Rule. and I venture to challenge anyone present or absent if any section of the Liberal party, not excepting the Irish National partv, more devotedly attended to their duties through that long and wearisome Home Rule (s<i^c.;<on, than did the Welsh members. (App aiise ) But the Welsh members, some time ago, came to the conclusion that it was full time to give l-'ttle \Va,1",s a turn. aid in the politest mannei possible wg g:ve expression to our sentiments in the propei quarter. (Applause.) Having got so far, I think we shall in the next session of Pailiam^nt na^e a bill introduced, but if it is HOU muroducsd. I nold mvself free to take any position which I think right to adopt. (Applause.) I am altogether tired of waiting on this question. (Applause.) I know it is not necessary in this pla^e to enter into anv long argument to prove the necessity for re- ligious equality, though I must sav tnat I was one0 quite taken aback when asked what I meant by relig'ous equality. The gentleman perceived that I was surprised at the question, and most politely said that he, being a resident in England there were but few Dissenter^, did not know how Welshmen were aggrieved, and he would be pleased if I would explain the position. I felt verv much under the circumstances as if I were addressing an individual from Saturn or Juoiter, or the^man in the moon. (Laughter.) Mv first grievance is tnat abouu four-fifths of my fellow countrymen, who are Nonconformists, and presumedly as much Christian as the other fifth, are only tolerated in their worship of God in the manner they believe to be the most scriptural that the Nonconformists pay their minis- ters and support the whole expanse connected with their religion, the only religion recognised oy law is the Church of the rich, which has tha tithes to support tha minivers. In the eye of the law the greatest Nonconformist minister in the land wo'dd rank after the humolest curate in the country. Now we are determined that no such slight shall be put unon our pastors, and that there shall be free trad° in religion as in anv other calling. (Applause.) To a nation of Nonconfor- mists, such as we can call ourselves, the main- taiiience of an established church is an insult to the people and to keep up such an establishment j in the face of the repeated protests ot the Welsh people is simnlv provoking the people to revolt an l insubordination. (Applause.) It is pleasant to me to see such a sturdv lot of Liberals in Par- liament as we have to-day. (Applause.) Vv ith the greatest fight. I suppose, in the annals of Par- liament—when we have had debates for$•"> days on one great subject, that during the whole time only two neak-kneed men fell by the wavside—aU the rest stood to their promises. (Applause ) From such men we can expect justice will be done, not only to Ireland, bus to dear little Wales. (Loud cheering.) MR GWILYM EVANS, J.P., LLANELLY- Aldermm Gwilvm Evans. J.P.. Llanellv, followed after few introdvetorv vemfrks. said! I have been reading Lord Salishnry's speech fit Cardiff. and tne only qne"til)T) touched upon, which to. my mind, iq of r^allv any importance, was that of the navy I am bound to confess th<t.t I am vvy pronfl and jaaimq of the h(mnnr of the British flag, and a •rood deal of svrnpathv with the views set forth bv the noble l~rd and soeaVng for mvself. I world mnoh prefer naving three times as mnch income tax rather than by anv possible combination, onr fleet eonld be in anv serions danger. I cannot, however, understand this sudden "larm on the Dart of Lord Salisbury, and one is inclined to ask, How is it that the Conservative Government, who were in power for sis years, and who were known not to have any special regard for the state of the exchequer—how is it thit they had not taken <-irecantious when they hid the power?"—for Cardiff was as mnch in daneer three years ago as it is now. Indeed, if Lord Salis- bury is serious, I wonid Fo.k him to a3k the prominent members oi his party in the House of Commons to rtiscontinne frittering away the time of the Honsp. Tt is a national disgrace to find such men as Mr Je^e Collioss a.^d Mr Haobnry. supported by Mr Courte- nav and others, dividing the bon3e on snch a qnest- ion as whether the Dartsh public baildings couid be nsed for skittles. (Loud laughter and cheers). Now I have known the Conservative party to be very free w;th their teas. their soirees, and dances, and in some instances ;t has been sng?«sted—beer, but I had idea thev had come to skittles. (Loud laa<?hte ). The demonstration which was boomed so energeti- cally in Cardiff last week fairly repressnt? the tactics which the party have £ o follow in the Princi- pality. I find that in the town in which I live, intimations were giveLJ that return tickets wonld be supplied free to those who wished to visit Cardiff on the day of the demonstration—and the sam 0: two shillings each in addition for refreshments. Yon will see, therefore, gentleman, that they could get both bøer and skittles. (Laughter and applanse). Here Mr Evans read an extract from the "Llanelly i Mercury as bi- anthoritv. No cause can said to be I healthy and deep rooted in the affections of the people, where snch artificial means are necessaiy to keep it going. These remarkq equally applv to the position of the Church of England in Wales—an alien church, and a church not in sympathy with the people. Resolutions have been passed on every platform in the Principality demanding Disestab- lishment and Disendowment of the Church. I do not wish to say anything derogatory or disrespectful to the Church or its members. I respect the Church as I do anv other religious sect which is trying to do good work, but it is idle to contend that the Church that persecnted Bishop Morgan and Vicar Pritchard. Ihung John Penry. and refused "ruination to Howel Harries, or priestly orders to .Williams, Pantycelyn, and Charles of B via—I again sav, it is ielle to c..11 that the National Church of Wt'es. I shall not trouble yon with the history of the CnT-ch, but it it now acknowledged by no less an authority than He G'arlstrJDe-(c'Jlõerl!) -thllot the Brit¡'!b Charch was separate Church, and quite distinct from the Engliak Cbarch. We mast also remember for what object the tithes and principal endowments were first granted. (Cbeere.) They were placed ii the hpnde of trustees in trust for four ourpoges, viz., religion, education, maintenance of the poor, and k-»epui? the I Church fabrics in good r^piir. In the I ith ceutory the State had to pMs poor laws, si that the ChureU was th^n to a great patent relieved of tie mainten- ance of the poor- We have now free education, and the only thing left to the Church is religions instrao. tion. This, aq we all know, the Church has failed to do, the people have bad to take the matter up them selves, and to make such sacrifices as were necessary by payin for their own religions teaching. I have not noticed that re'.igioB suffered in any country fat the want of endowments or connection with the Stite: and when it wai ray privilege to visit the small Welsh chapels in the American continent and Australia, I beiieve there was as sincete worshipoiog there aa coald be found anywhere though the centre. cations consisted of members of different sects, and tin oolv bonds of union between them were that they were Watchmen, and assembled together for worahin and I am not quite sure whether even among Non- conformists in the Principality the great question ot qct" does not occupy too prominent a, position, (Hear, hear.) But whv go into details ? Did not Mr Gladstone, when introducing the Home Rule Bill, distinctly and emphatically 18Y down the principle tha* when a large m\j ->rity of the people through their properly constituted representatives demanded a c»ruin reform, it was the duty of Parliim9nt to legislate accordingly. N JW, we in Wales, returned « larger number of members, pro rata, p edged to advo- cate Disestablishment than had ever been returned to support any particular measure—Home Rule not exceoted—and not oniv that, we have repeated this Parliament after ParliLment-the present proportion of Welsh members in favour of this measure beine 31 to 3. The tims for parleying and salaaming is now past and I am in perfect sympathy with the forward movement of t'ae Welsh party ou this question. I appeal to the go ernm^nt not to misunderstand the present temper of the Welsh people. It is getting shorter and shorter daily. (Lolli and continued applause). We. at Llanelly. have o-^ed a reso- lution, giving our member a free band to vote and act as he miy think best unless the Disestablish- ment and Dissndownment of the Church in Wales is first. or one of the first subjects in the Q leen's speech next session. We all expect that the Hnse of Lords will throvv it ont. I sometimes hope,. now that Home Rnle has been thrown out, that thev will not only throw out the Dissstablish'nerjt Bill. but two or three other important measures. We shall then have to consider whether the wishes of Lhe people, or the wishes of the lords are going to preva.it. and 1 will leave you. ladies and srentlemen, to decide that for yourselves, b it still I believe in the oli motto •Trech gwlad nac a.-glwydd" (prolonged applause.) Some people ask, if the Church were disendowed, what would be done with the money. My experience Ins been that it is much easier to make money tnan to hold it. and much easier to spend it than either. A portion of the money can he given for its original purpose, viz education- Secondary and h"»her and technical education are still far behind in Wales, uotwitbstanding the noble efforts m.1ie by the diffa.-ent counties, under the Intermediate and Technical E lucitiou Acts. With one exception, the counties 0; the Principality have devoted all tha money under the Local Taxation Grants to educat- ional purposes. Wnen Aberystwyth, some time asro, applied for the miserable sum of £2.000 a vear, it wai refused, but afterwards granted. B it when wi c,m_ nitre the m jneys voted to I.-eland for, say Maynooth College, and the am ounts of the annutl grants to the scotch and Irish U jiveraities. and also compare the taxes of the three countries,it is impossible to ccnced that Wales is eveo now receiving anything like justice. We shall require money for a national museum, for recreation grounds, and a better previa, ion for the deserving agad poor. The present Poor Liws are in my opinion, a disgrace, and the time is not far distant when we shall look back with shitne to the treatmont of the aged and deserving poor in our workhouses. These social questions ;i"e bound to force themselves on the attention of parliament very soon, and when we come to look at the great distress and poverty in the Bast End of London and in the poorer districts of our large towns, they point out to us clearly that any laws which can be passed to p-avent the poor cutting poorer, even at the expense of PREVETICM JJ the rich getting richer, will have our strongest ap- proval. In order to do this we sho-ld have taxation of ground rents, and improvable lands ad- joining towns; taxation of royalties, higher duties oq l uxuries, and possibly a graduated income tax. In districts such as yours at Pontypridd the sudden and terrible catastrophes that hippeu occasionally in onr Urge collieries, al whicn b iug ruin and desolation to many homes, rendering many families destitute are convincing proofs th it some provisi-in should be mads for the sufferers. (Cheers.) I am certain that tne colliery proprietors and their in makers take all the precautions that are possible, but, for those acci- deuts which no human eye can foresee, what are we to do ? My sug?e=tion is that there should be this first coarse on coal, say of d in the ton. and that should be placed in a common fund, so that there will b? ample means at hand to provide for tin sufferers and t) prevent the collier's widow aud cu-ldren be. coming paupers, aLnost before they know. (Loud cheers.i I congratulate the Government for the step they have taken to wards the formation of a Concilia- tion or Arbitration Board. No better miti could have been selected than Lord Roseberrv, and although it may he unwise to give these Boards cer- tain special po.vera. the power of public opinion in tins country is such, that neither men noi master dire ignore the award of an honourable and impar- tial board. We are looking forward to an extensiou of the Local Cxoverment Act in some f rru or other. If ic were possible to have Some Rule for Wales we would settle the questions I have already reterred to Without any trouhle. A Bill drawn out on the lines suggested by your meuiaer. ilr Alfred Thomas, is the best I have ever seen. 'Cheers £ f the term Home Krue is objected to, let it be called the extended Lical Government Act. so that all the counties of Wales and Monmouthshire ctti work and act to-ether. Under the preset Act we have proved that we iiave beuii able to administer the laws we are now aspiring for legislative powers, as we believe in the government, of the people by the peoole and forthepeople. AVe i-aust strive u-tlil this comes abo -.t, and I wrl conclude by giving the advice ot a:) Indian prince— "Bow not, good people, to the ea.rth, We are all men of equal worth; The hour, the day, the year is past, When men should bow to the demon caste." Lord Battsrsea in a telling speech moved a vote of thanks to the chairman. This was heartily seconded by Mr .Le wis Williams, J.P., C *rdic. and "car ied with rounds of applause. The Chairrnin brieflv re- spouded, and the pioceedings W;2r<, brought to a close.