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-0 Welsh Church Bill Clauses. COMMONS DEBATE. How j^fales will be Placed Under the Act. As briefly reported in our 6.30 edition yesterday, the House of Commons again went into Committee on the Established Church (Wales) Bill. On Clause 19, which provides that first fruits, in respect of any appoint- ment io any ecclesiastical office after Disestablishment, and tenths in respect of any such office., shall cease to be pay- able, subject to the continued liability ■ or life of the present holders. Mr. Hoare (C., Chelsea) moved an amendment providing that the Welsh Commissioners should pay to Queen Anne's Bounty 11 times the annual va-iue of the tenths and first fruits. Ho said he thought these tenths and first fruits sriouict be regarded as a permanent charge on the beneiices and other oihees on which they were pay- able, and A hen the proceeds of the bene- tices ere transferred to the secular auth orities the obligation for these payments shoaid continue with the j transfer. He maintained that they were a charge on property, and that the County Councils and the University should be under the obligation to con- tinue to pay t'item, i-ii ti-ii-, form of a lump sum, as suggested in the amend- ment. He was nformed that the sum in question wo-lid amount to about i'7,UUJ, Charge of National Property. Mr. McXeiuia said that under the Bill they took the whole of the ancient endowments, treating them as national property. The Queen Anne's Bounty hund was derived exclusively from a charge on these ancient endowments, and it seemed to follow as a matter of course that the tenths which had been subsequently extracted from those en- dowments must cieariy go witn the or- iginal property. Mr. fiouio had con- tended that first fruits and tenths should lie treated as private benefac- tions, but the Government said they were a charge on national property, and they could not therefore accept the amendment. liOrd R. Cecil (C.) said the clause amounted to legislative petty larceny. He urged the Home Secretary to give way and not to be afraid of the Welsh Radical members, who were a perfectly negligible quantity. (Laughter.) j Greater Than His Descendants. .11r. Llewelyn Williams (1,.) said it was quite true that, as head of the Church, Henry VIII. did take away the tenths for a time, but they all know that in Queen Mary's reign they were restored to the clergy. Then the blessed and glorious revolution took place when Queen Elizabeth came to the throne, and Sir William Cecil, who was, he be- lieved, the greatest of the Cecils, and who was a fine DirsBstablisher and Dis- endower—(Ministerial cheers)—and be- lieved he could disestablish an old faith and disendow it. (Ministerial cheers.) He decided that if he was going to do it he would do it thoroughly, and in the first year of Queen Elizabeth the Act of Uniformity was passed. He insisted upon the clergy paying the tenths and first-fruits, and that they should go to the Civil Lost of the Sovereign. For 150 years they were paid in that way. If they were to assume, as Sir William Cecil did, that Parliament had the right to alter the character, doc- trines, and government of the Church, and to alter also the beneficiaries of the money paid to it, it was uerfeccly logical for Parliament to take away the first fruits and pay them to any person or institution it liked. Hear, hear.) Queen Annie had been spoken of in con- nection with this matter, but Queen Anne had lost her children, and she thought that was a visitation of God. She mentioned the matter to the Arch- bishop and, being pious, she decided to make the best of both worlds—(laugh- ter)—and to return to the Church the tenths and first fruits, whilo at the same time her privy purse would not be depleted. The amendment was defeated by 260 to 125—Government majority, 135. Another division was challenged that the clause stand part of the Bill, with the result that the clause was carried by 262 to 123—majority, 139. Vacant Bishoprics. On Clause 20, which provides for the filling up of vacancies during the sus- pensory period between the passing of the Act and the date of Disestablish- ment, Mr. Balfour (C.) asked for an ex- planation of sub-section one, which says that his Majesty the King may in the case of a vacant bishopric on the peti- tion of the Archbishop of Canberb try or of any three Welsh bishops, nominate a person to fill the vacancy, but any bishop so nominated shall not be sum- moned to or qualified to sit in the House of Lords. He said if the Prime Minis- ter was to continue the adviser of the Crown in regard to filling up the Welsh dioceses, what was the meaning of the last sentence disqualifying any bishop so appointed from taking his place in the House of Lords while the Church was still established That was unconm.? stitutional. Mr. C. Hobhouse said the King need not fill up any vacancy in the bishoprics unless he got a petition from the Arch- bishop or from three Welsh bishops. The Prime Minister would continue to advise the Crown, and the Government thought it beter any bishop appointed in the terregnum should not be a mem- ber of the House of Lords. Sir D. Brymor Jones (L.) explained that the clause was inserted solely in the interests of the Welsh Church. At 7 o'clock the guillotine fell, and the clause was carried by 275 to 155. Clause 21 ,which transfers trust pro- perty held by ecclesiastical corporations to the Welsh Commissioners, was car- ried hy 277 to 159. THE MARRIAGE LAW. Amendment which was Withdrawn. I Clause 22 which says that j vW&ing in the Act shall affect the law ph respoct to marriage in Wales or v%nmouth, %r. Malcolmn (C.) moved am amend- Sent providing that after the passing the Act the Deceased Wife Sisters' j Carriage Act, 1907, shall be repealed Wales a,nd Monmouthshire. He "cl that the disestablished Church sessgnt to have complete spiritual free- don; in this respect. jir. McKenna said the effect of the clause was that the disestablished Church would retain the use of the parish churches subject to the right of ) Parishioners to be married in the ftarisb church, but this right was limited to cases in which one or both parties was 31 member of the Church of England. If the governing authority of the cis- j iestablished Church laid it down as a j rule of the Church that no clergyman should administer the communion to a person who had married his .lecetied j wife's sister the clergyman wouid be bouni by that rule. 'I Lord Hugh Cecil (C.) disagreed with the Home Secretary's views, a.nd con- tended that if the civil rights of parishioners were retained in the churches it was inconsistent- with the principle of Disestablishment. I The Welsh Leader. I 'I Sir D. Brynmor Jones (L.) said if I the clause were struck out be Church ¡ I of England in Wales would alter Dls- ) establishment be in exactly the same position as the Nonconformist bodies. Did the noble lord desire that, Lord Hugh Cecil: Yes. I Sir D. Brynmor Jones: Then we I ought, holding the principles we do, to I assent to that. Supposing the proviso j is left out? I Lord Hugh Cecil: We will omit the I whole clause. I Sir D. Brynmor Jones: So much the better from our point of view. If the noble Lord wiil move to leave out the  clause I am willing. Mr. Balfour expressed no opinion on the question whether the clause should j be omiitted, but suggested that the I Government should insert works mak- j uig it clear that a clergyman who re- j vus-ed the communion to persons whom he considered to be living in an im- moral relation should not be liable to I an actiou at common law. Mr. McKenna said this clause was niit into the Bill under the viiew that ;t I was-io the advantage vf the church. If j be was assured upon + he report stage that it was the genoral desire of the 'I representatives of the Church that the clause should be left out, he was willing I to omit it, and in place of it propose a short clause extending the law as it was laid down in the Nonconformist Marriage Act to the disestablished Church in Wales. Mr. Booth (L.) believed that if the Disestablished Church were put under. the Nonconformist Marriages Act which would require the attendance of a registrar at the marriage ceremonies I the result would not be satisfactory to Church people in Wales, who now had the advantage of being married cheaply. The amendment was withdrawn. I THE DIVORCE QUESTION. I Mr. Hoare moved to omit the prnvi. I sion that nothing JH tho Act should affect tho law with respect to marriage in Wales and Monmouthshire. He wished to obtain further information m regard to the rights of parishioners as to marriage after the Bill had become law. Would a clergyman be able to refuse the use of Ins church for the marriage of divorced persons ? Mr. Ellis Griffith (lor the Govern- ment) said the position of Wales differed from t13 position of Ireland, because in Wales there was only one privileged Church with regard to the law of marriage, but in Ireland there were two or three Churches which had the same statutory status. Then, iXgain the law of mixed marriages was much more important, in Ireland than it was in Wales The hon. Member (Mr. Hoare) had said the Bishops and clergy were th; real authorities on matters of doctrine. That was not the attitude of the sup porters of the Bill. They contemkx that the views of representative lay- men ought to be taken into considera- tion. Their contention was that th? Church, when disestablished and dis I 'j]dow('("l, shoud have the right to torn its own constitution in regard to it; spiritual, domestic ami economic Me, free from the control of Parliament oi anyone else. They were anxious thai the Church should have self-govern- ment and self-control, and they did not desire that Parliament should impos any rules upon it in rega.rd to its spiritual affairs.. Mr. Cave (C., Kingston) said he wa- afraid the result of the Bill would be to throw the whole marriage law in Wales into confusion. The Same as at Present. Mr. McKenna said that after the passing of the Act the marriage law in Wales would be exactly the same as it was to-day. They had consulted the best possible authority—the Registrar- General. The Government was quite willing to put the Disestablished Church in exactly the same position as every free church in Wales, and he would re- peat his undertaking to move to omit this clause on report, and bring up an- other clause carrying out this principle. Lord Robert Cecil supported the amendment, and was subjected to some interruption, which drew from him the observation that the J. interrupter ap- peared to devote his talents to becom- ing the buffoon of the House. Mr. King (L, N. Somerset), jumping to his feet amid Unionist laughter and cries of "The cap fits," asked whether such language was in order. The Chairman: I did not see where the interruption came from, but if the noble lord was mistaken I am sure he will apologise. (Laughter.) Mr. King: May I. remind the noble lord and the Committee that I made no interruption. Lord Robert Cecil: If the hon. gentle- man assures me he made no interruption I congratulate him on his almost unique self-control. (Opposition laughter and cheers.) Opprobrious." I Mr. King: Will the noble lord with- draw his opprobrious epithet? Lord R. Cecil: I am ready to with- draw if the hon. Member thinks it offen- sive to be called the buffoon of the House, but I thought that was his object. (Opposition laughter.) The amendment was defeated by 261 to 153—majority 108. The was agreed to, and progress was reported.

THE NEW CHAIRMANI

[No title]

T?YNG TO SETTLE THE DOCK"…

MR. FRANK POTTER. o

SWANSEA NURSING ASSOCIATION,…

[No title]

THE INYINCIBLES.I

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HOLIDAY REMINISCENCES.I

[No title]

I TKEW : TCTICIAN I | -0.…

I I 11 SOMEWHAT PECULIAR"

LATE MR. WILLIAM BEYNON.|

[No title]

DRIYEN ASHORE

THE RURAL COUNCIL !

I PRETTY MUtiBLES WEDDINC.

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