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< Twll Oloi Conferences. | n.\ DAI SHIRGAB.J HistarEditar.-Iam surry.thart I '<Jell 'postpone my second instalment (as the -?tory papers say I of the great debate on Socialism between Dai 'Berdar and Twm Socialist. Yon will remember that I left on' with Dai's example of the Cambrian would work. Twin was v;'ry "ot about it. ?)i' aU 'e could say was: It is pretty Colliery undier Socialism, and how it evident. Dai, that you 'ar'n't got much faith in ihe People, although you allow them to run your Navy, your Army, and vourPostOnice. Ifthey?an dothe?e things well, it is .just possible they may tilli)-(,s AN-ell, It .Itl,"t P()S."?II)I?, tii,, "But you 'av'n't proved io me '.hat they can do these things bettor than a private company can," said Dai. Is it not a fact that there is more ineHieiency in our public services as a rule than in our private enterprises? by, man. there are many chaps lolhng in ease m some of our public ofifces that wouldn't earn their bread and cheese n they 'ad 1o work in the cwt all day. Hut let's come nearer 'onie. There's Cwni- bwrla, f'r instance. "e thinks about is 'is dinner time and knockin'-off time. He gets 'is day's wage. whet her work be busy or slack, but you an' 1 got io put in a jolly lot of 'ard work he lore we pee daylight once wie come down in the moi'iiin'. You never 'card o'f a day-wage, man killin' 'isself with work, did you-" But what relation does that hear to Socialism? "Well, this; under Socialism, you say \\(,\1 be all sure of meat an' drink. Any man who's sure of that won't kill "is,;eJf. will he? An' why should he ? If 1 could be sure of a full euphonrd/('ry day an' hlliir only two trams a day. why should I kill myself to hi five? Now I've got to (lo it, because I know that unless I do it the p(,tl)yi- baelt will dec at the end of a. fortnight," "But isn't that an argument tor away with the present system a system of 'ard work an' uncertainty and adopt a system that will guarantee a full board always? "Ay, if it could be done: but that is where you cannot prove your ca^e. It, .as I say. Socialism will encourage lazi- ness-an' it will do that, because 1 lie re will be no incentive to work an' you guarantee that ev'ry man shall 'an,' 'is belly full. 'ow are you goin' to make things pay? Tiiat AN,ould I)kl IILII'tllll' tile candle at both leuùs, an' I don't know that even the State could afford to do that more'n the individual and go 'cad- long to )),irik)-ii))t(-v." But the State would ta ke precaut ions, against that sort oj thing, It would see j to it tli,it el-']- man did 'is whack, other- wise he'd bie punished. F ,x:ic*lv, that's where t he soli jobs floilile Ill. But supposin' one has a just quarrel with 'is gaffer and refuses to work ) under 'im any longer. What are you goin' to do with 'im? Where will he go? You arc th'e one to condemn trade com- binations like the Cambrian Trust- a II' I condemn trusts as much as anyone- but here, you propose to establish one huge trust called the State, working' through a lot of inspectors, overseers and other creatures whose souls are no bigger than ) that of a blackbeetle, an' you ask me to j support this sort of thing' Why, now. if I lose my job at the Abergorchy. I can try for another in the Cymnrer, but if'! the Cymnier and the Abergorchy wore j owned by one company, it isn't likely I'd j get it. Look at the Post Office, if a man j is discharged in one place, does h*- get a job in the Post Office at another place? j Not likely." } But you lorget that the State i- vonr- i self. You falk as il it was soinotlni! in Timbuctoo--somethin' outside yourself. You. an' I, an' the I-vst of us are the State, you an objection to govern yourself? If you 'ave a grievance. you can easily obtain the remedy." Tli,at, sounds very nice, biit ow will it. work in action? The State—that is, we. an' th<e Tonypandy strikers--own the police the Tonypandy strikers 'ave a grievance against the Metropolitan Police, an' they 'ave been askin' for an inquiry. But the Government—the Executive of the State—will not grant this inquiry into the conduct of the police—that is, into the conduct of the servants of the strikers, an' thus it. is that, although we own the police, our servants are in a position to snap their fingers at us, and break our le.-ids at the saiii(, lime." That only illustrates the folly of put- ting a, Liberal Government into office, an* the desirability of substituting a Socialist Government in its plac'e. Your illustration has been most unfortunate for your case." 1- It illustrates nothin' of the kind. It only goes to show the folly of thinkin' that when ev'rythin' will be nationalised our troubles will be at an end. The French Government owned the railways, but State control could not prevent a strike, neitlier did it deter the Govern- ment from senclin' soldiers io snoot, if necessary, any obstreperous Socialists who wanted to kick up a rumpus. Moreover, under a despotic State, the Government, ownin' all buildings, could refuse to let people have these rooms to criticise the Government; they could not hold mass meetings on the mountain or anywhere else without trespassing on Government property, the Government could forbid newspapers to' criticise its policy, and, moreover, in the case of a strike—if there were any poor beggars left with sufficient backbone to strike—the Govern- ment, ownin' the supplies of food, could stop them at any moment and starve them into submission. In short, a drespotic State would be the biggest tyrant the world 'as ever seen under whose baneful influence all semblance of liberty would perish.

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